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Prototype Downgrades

@Ciruno Fortes Alright

I'm not here to make a point on upgrading the AP of a character's gun though. It could be PIS for all we know, especially since fiction tends to have blatant superhuman characters get harmed by bullets, which is also evident in the Prototype 1 comics where the Hunters died from bullets despite the fact that they are able to shrug off missiles and tank shells in the first Prototype game. Lol. But fair point on the possibility that Mercer was lowering his durability to let the bullet damage him, but I still doubt the point of "moving thinking process/nervous system to different parts of the body" due to the lack of explicit evidence for such though.

I mean, it's very likely Mercer doesn't need a brain, but considering the fact that skeletons of the Blacklight characters are shown... It at least shows they still possess it (maybe just as a disguise or way to blend in, because Mercer's Type 2 Immortality feat certainly suggests that he doesn't need internal organs like his brain), but fair enough. As for the Supreme Hunter, I mean... Animals are mainly animalistic in intelligence as well, so I'm not sure what the Supreme Hunter's intelligence has anything to do with not needing a brain like Mercer, but alright.

Okay. I mean, by that logic, we can't exclude the puddle regenerative feat from the Supreme Hunter and Mercer reforming the gaping wound in his head without biomass either. As for your points:

  • Alex Mercer didn't die from running out of biomass by James Heller, he died when James Heller consumed him. At best, you can only argue that Heller constantly ripping biomass out of Mercer would only delay Mercer's Regenerationn a bit longer. And even then, that final fight is contradicted by the fact that Mercer was able to easily regrow his arms a couple of times (implying that he doesn't need to consume to regenerate) before stopping, and yet he is still at a much better state than he was in the Prototype 1 post-nuclear explosion scene when he was just a puddle... Due to how this site's standards operate from what I can recall, we go by the high-end capabilities of the characters over their low-end ones, so Mercer's regenerative feats in Prototype 1 should take preference over his his low-end ones ― especially not just because of this site's preference to take preference over the high-end capabilities of the characters over their low-end ones, but also because Prototype 2 tends to have more PIS in it than Prototype 1 does in general... ― and if he really was "dead already", then he wouldn't have been able to consume that crow so that's the wrong word to use really.
  • Yeah, but the best estimate we have is it takes place under the same night based on what we can go from, but alright then. It doesn't change the fact that a small tendril with a crow's biomass is all it takes to reform an entire body (and we clearly see scenes of Mercer reforming his entire body before it skipped a bit, which heavily implies that his Regenerationn was taking mere seconds)... Or that characters like the Supreme Hunter can regenerate even without absorbing biomass, so Regenerationn without biomass when given enough time doesn't sound too far-fetched and should actually have some basis behind them.
  • Based from the cutscenes, the Supreme Hunter got its arm severed and then got decapitated by Mercer shortly after... The Supreme Hunter doesn't seem to have much time to recover from its arm loss by then, and we still don't know about what has happened to the Supreme Hunter and how it has died after the decapitation. Given that the Supreme Hunter was able to operate in a state such as being able to reform and move its hand as a puddle (which is probably also a Type 2 Immortality feat), I'd think that the true cause for its death is unknown after the decapitation (doesn't help that some Prototype fans thought that the Supreme Hunter got consumed, or that it just died from the decapitation, as it was literally never mentioned again after the fight is over).
  • That's some speculation you're making right there. Unless you have a quote to that explicitly stated that Mercer has "moved his thinking process to a different part of his body" for when he has faked his death, we can't assume that's actually what has happened. Based on the visuals and the statements we can go from, that's a solid Type 2 Immortality and Mid Regenerationn feat, especially when the Blacklight characters has shown to possesses things such as an entire skeleton and likely internal organs as well (though it's likely they don't need them based on Prototype 1 Mercer's feats ― and that it could just be biomass shaped as those internal organs and skeletons ― but it doesn't change the fact that Mercer likely has them in his body).
Yeah, I already saw that video several times. I don't know why the damage of bullets in general has to do with anything when that's a solid Type 2 Immortality feat and a solid regenerative feat, so it doesn't matter that Mercer is "faking it", especially when nothing explicitly indicates that Mercer is moving his "thinking process/nervous system" to different parts of his body like you've implied (at best, you can argue that Mercer has lowered his durability to let it damage him, since Blacklight allows characters to be able to somehow shift their density around for some reason). I don't know about the choking bit from the Supreme Hunter as he has feats that suggests that he doesn't really need internal organs to operate, but if your point was that he was faking being choked or that he just has gag reflex, then fair enough.

I mean, I have things to do and I doubt we would stop replying to each other with disagreements, but if you want this to go on for eternity then it's probably not going to stop. XD
 
Lol, it's the good ol "I want to have the last say in this!" kind of situation. Anyway I'm sure we can be both productive so I'll give you the last say : P

But I'm really not convinced by any of what you say though namely on these:

>Gun thing

Not a PIS, Alex had to just fake his death. That's it. And if no brain like someone said well, not really dangerous. Though he does have the web of intrigue so he has that somewhere. So really the brain thing is not a feat at all

>Alex died to being consumed

Yes. But he also cannot regenerate anymore AFTER that. Remember, he ate like 7 evolved or so before he fought James and still ran out after. And that's where I take issue. Ignoring the low ends and focusing on the high ends. Just seems unjust to me tbh

>Regenerationn taking seconds

Nah, I really don't agree with this. If that was the case he wouldn't be a puddle the entire time on his trip down there. And it's still night. It could be seconds, or hours. We can't be sure at all.

>Supreme Hunter fate

Yeah either way it shows a timeframe of not just seconds for the Regenerationn thing. That's the vital part. You could argue that SH is just not as good as Alex in regenning but that would kick out the puddle regen feat.

>Move head

Nope. Not really speculative. He faked his death. That's all there is to it. That was literally the plan. I'm already making adjustments for you by assuming Alex is allowing himself to be hurt at all by a bullet wound. Assuming is the organs part. The only one who had a skeleton was Alex Mercer funnily, but the vitals part is a bit questionable.

Either way it seems P1 has some PIS too on its own and many more.

Now these are my opinions, take that as you will but yeah unless I'm seeing an actual brain in Alex Mercer's head displayed or exposed when being damaged. And the choking thing.. Well it implies but I doubt it's just gag reflex but ah wel.

That's all!

@Ant

Which post? The OP?
 
Yes. I did not have the time to read the rest of the thread.
 
The OP was already accepted and some other changes as well. I'm working on a draft for the updated profile and I'll link it here before I post it.

This seems to have been more a sidtracked discussion on the particulars of Alex's regen.
 
@Ciruno Fortes XD. Fair enough, I'll let you give me this last say, though I'm not sure if you would carry through with it (later, you replied to my reply again. Lol) but we'll see. :p

For the Gun Point: If you did admit that he has a brain/nervous system somewhere, then we can't really assume he somehow shifted it to the rest of his body due to the lack of explicit evidence suggesting that. At best, we can assume that it's still located somewhere in his head similarly to any other living creature yet isn't vital for survival, but even if it is not fatal to characters like Mercer ― it is still a solid Type 2 Immortality and Regenerationn feat. I mean, one could argue that Mercer has expected that brain damage wouldn't be fatal to him due to not needing internal organs like an ordinary living creature would if we're going down that path, but alright then.

Alex died to being consumed point: I mean, after several loss of arms and not regenerating after that, James Heller was consuming him after that. Mercer didn't get any more time than a few dozen seconds or so after that last arms rip before Heller decided to consume him, so it could also be argued that Mercer's Regenerationn was being delayed rather than failing to Regenerationn, but alright. In this case, the high-ends are contradicting the low-ends, and the only way this can get anywhere without the regenerative abilities self-contradicting each other is to only take one of those ends. In this case, taking the regenerative high-ends feats that are mostly from Prototype 1.

Regenerationn taking seconds: If you're talking about Mercer's Regenerationn after consuming that crow as just a small tendril, it did actually actually took seconds based on the transitioning scenes shown. We saw Mercer reforming from a puddle. We saw him reforming his hand. We saw him reforming his skull. The process of which took seconds, based on the transitioning scenes (and based on how we saw him reforming his body parts in just a couple of seconds, it wouldn't be at all far-fetched for Mercer to finish the Regenerationn process of his entire body a few seconds later). If you're talking about Mercer's state before the crow, then fair enough as the time took for that is unknown, but it could be argued that Mercer could scale to the Supreme Hunter's puddle Regenerationn feat (especially when both performed similar enough feats as similar viral beings) ― but alright.

Supreme Hunter's fate point: Alright. Not sure how that contradicts the Supreme Hunter's puddle hand reforming feat outside of the possibility of the Regenerationn being delayed seconds longer due to arm loss shortly before the decapitation, but since you're not ignoring the Supreme Hunter's puddle Regenerationn feat, I think we both agree that the true cause for the death of Supreme Hunter's death is unknown when taking all of their regenerative feats into account?

Move head point:

I mean, while Mercer did indeed faked his own death, I don't think the plan explicitly describes him shifting his thinking process/nervous system to a different part of his body at all ― but I guess you have a point in the gaping wound in the head not being "fatal" bit (I mean, if it were an another creature other than Mercer, it would've been considered fatal as that's what I meant by the irony. Just saying. XD) though that's a solid Type 2 Immortality feat and Regenerationn feat (I mean, it can be argued that it isn't fatal to Mercer as he himself knows that he doesn't need internal organs to function traditionally like any ordinary creature and could just regenerate his wounds, but okay). I appreciate you making adjustments in assuming Alex allowed himself to get hurt by a bullet wound at all though. I mean, if Mercer has a skeleton, why wouldn't he for the internal organs?

If we assume that he lacks internal organs altogether, that could still be seen as a Type 2 Immortality feat as lacking internal organs such as a brain would mean brain damage is not an issue (but I think you already agreed on him having a brain somewhere, so we don't need to go there), but alright then. I can respect those opinions of yours and leave you to it.
 
Dargoo Faust said:
The OP was already accepted and some other changes as well. I'm working on a draft for the updated profile and I'll link it here before I post it.

This seems to have been more a sidtracked discussion on the particulars of Alex's regen.
Click to expand...
Okay. No problem.
 
Don't worry not even going to bother reading since I know we're not gonna agree and it's gonna continue an infinite loop xD Just want to say that this is safe to close though in that case

Edit - To clarify your arguments are great, I just think we're too much on a different thinking on how to interpret some factors so we really won't ever come to a conclusion on that and I think I can save us the trouble of that
 
Changes have been applied to Alex's page. Heller and others forthcoming.

Much of the stats are placeholders until calcs are done, and if there's any issues with the changes please inform me.

I have also removed his matches, we can have a seperate discussion about which matches didn't depend on his AP later.
 
Dargoo Faust said:
Changes have been applied to Alex's page. Heller and others forthcoming.
Much of the stats are placeholders until calcs are done, and if there's any issues with the changes please inform me.

I have also removed his matches, we can have a seperate discussion about which matches didn't depend on his AP later.
Click to expand...
Mind if I ask a question about his AP first?
 
Heller is infected by the same strain of the virus as Mercer, wielding similar powers despite its variable effects, and could fight him (though he's much weaker, especially before the end of the game) as well as other Evloved. He should be somewhat comparable, and probably superior to his early game Prototype 1 self for fighting and killing enemies superior to Brawlers, such as Hydras and Juggernauts. Near the end of the game, he could even kill an Alpha Juggernaut with no effort
 
Just to point a something small, Mercer's justification for his Regenerationn is missing the link to the Supreme Hunter's page. It literally just has an underscored space. "Regenerated after being reduced to a bloody pulp by a nuclear explosion. Likely has similar healing capabilities as ____, which could regenerate its body from a puddle of blood"

Also, his speed tiering goes from "Supersonic+" to "At least Supersonic+" to "Likely Supersonic+." Shouldn't that last one be "At least Supersonic+, likely higher" or something like that?
 
Lightbuster30 said:
It's just this link for the crusher: https://gfycat.com/poisedwaterloggedibex
It destroyed the tanks by landing near them. That is to say: Landing several feet away from them. Is it possible to use inverse square law on the shockwave and find AP based on that?
Click to expand...
I don't see any tanks that were destroyed that weren't directly under the Hunters, tbh.

Fixed the missing link to the Supreme Hunter, though. The speed tiering wasn't changed by me, although I fixed the wording there too.
 
Throwing an A.P.C over the Cloud District actually happened only minutes after Mercer destroyed it with a van.

It also seems like he became superior to Hunters after absorbing one.
 
The changes were applied to Alex and it seems there isn't any issues with the fixes beyond a few minor tweaks.

Updates still need to be applied to Heller and the other characters. I'm already working on Heller's updates, although I don't mind if someone else could pitch in with the pages for the Hunters and Greene.
 
I'll help with Greene and see what I can find with the Hunter/Brawlers.
 
Normal Greene should be Small Building level, as she overpowered early and mid-game Mercer with ease.

Mother (her biomass form) is many storeys in height, virtually unaffected by normal Blackwatch artillery, and put a massive crater into the street upon resurfacing. Unlike Greene's page suggests, her Crimson Shockwave doesn't cover all of Times Square, more like a 20 metre radius. In one version of the game (the one I had before it was remastered), she was able to shake the ground across the heart of Times Square which was compared to an earthquake. All of these clips are gone, unfortunately, so I can't give proof. Regardless, I think Mother should be Building level.

Everything else on her page is relatively accurate (except for the thermobaric weapon part). I remember in my play throughs that she does throw even tanks to the game border.
 
As mentioned before, Hunters can destroy tanks by merely falling on them. This is consistent with a Web of Intrigue cutscene in Prototype 2, where Colonel Rooks confirms infected specimines can destroy bases from the inside, with imagery of tanks being destroyed.

Here, I also brought up even the most fodder infected tearing people apart, Brawlers tearing large blocks of concrete out of the ground to throw them at helicopters and Super Soliders (who are comparable in strength) throwing missiles into the sky with one arm. Small Building level and Class 5 lifting strength for basically any infected seems fair, in my opinion.

Goliaths are apparently 50 feet in height, strong enough to partially shake buildings to pieces with seemingly indirect hits and can deflect rockets or tank them with virtually no damage. They always grossly outclass Heller, so I think it's fine for them to be Building level and Class 100, since they also send tanks flying with their charges. However, they were created by Mercer's second outbreak, and he ca control them, so maybe he and very late game Heller scales.
 
Tanks aren't made of ordinary steel tho, they'd have a higher fragging energy than normal steel, still 8-C.
 
They just damage it to the point where it explodes or penetrates it's armour, killing the occupants.
 
KLOL506 said:
Tanks aren't made of ordinary steel tho, they'd have a higher fragging energy than normal steel, still 8-C.
Click to expand...
Don't Abrams typically have reactive armor tho
 
Said armor is waaaaaay tougher than the RHa used in other military vehicles IIRC
 
Actually it's weaker because it's not meant for density and toughness as much, it's meant to react to the attack by setting a secondary explosion to shrug it away
 
He wouldn't have taken the full explosion. It came from several fuel tanks.
 
eh the debunk dosen't seem quite solid to me since destroying a large building in 3 clean hits would amount too more then just 9A attacks but im gona go into that tommorow when im back in england

but im just going to throw this in before i go

what about that city wide devestetor heller unleashed at the end of the game

that feat is deffinitly far above 9A just via the sheer mass it possesed alone and it would seem that mercer amounted for most of that mass
 
He doesn't even destroy a full building, just well under half, and it's not that large.

I was thinking he could be far higher with devastator, since the exact power is unknown and they're always clearly above a character's normal level of power.
 
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