Professor Paradox's Time stop immunity removal

[Rikimarox2]

Ello~

Currently speaking, Paradox has a time stop immunity due to "Existing outside of time"

I don't think I need to say this but, Immunity is a major NLF when it comes to VS battles. We never give immunities unless its very specific.

Not to mention, the reasoning is very weak for it to grant an immunity. If the immunity stays for whatever reason, then every character that transcends time, or exists outside of time should get immunity to time-based powers.

TL;DR: Immunity is wack. And the reasoning is very weak. Either change it to mere resistance (If he has any feats of resisting time stop) or just remove it entirely.

 

[Greenshifter]

Following. Currently pretty neutral since I don’t know of a lot of people who exist outside of time the way Paradox does. He doesn’t have any feats of resisting time stop no.

 

[Greenshifter]

• Paradox: You don’t know the half of it. Some tiny miscalculation on my part destabilized the experiment and ripped a hole in the fabric of reality. I was hurled into the event horizon. I must’ve spent 100 thousand years there. I didn’t age or need to sleep or eat. Just exist.
• Kevin: [chuckles] Sounds pretty boring.
• Paradox: At first I went mad, of course, but after a few millennia, I got bored with that, too, and went sane -- very sane. I began to learn. I now have total understanding of the space-time continuum, allowing me to travel anywhere and anywhen I want, within reason.

• Paradox: At the moment, not even in job satisfaction. You see, I recently discovered that some kind of extradimensional creature is going to wreak havoc across the universe.
• Ben: So? Way you talk, you take on monsters like this all the time. Why is this one so bad?
• Paradox: Because unlike the thousands of foes I faced before, this extradimensional creature came into our plane of reality the moment my experiment went awry.
• Oh. So, just to be clear, it’s your fault.

• The experiment that releases the creature also unsticks me in time, and that must happen because [chuckles] in all modesty
  
  
• Let go! He’ll age you into dust!
• I exist outside of time. Well, I can still feel the eons passing.
  
  
• The creature. It tried to use the pay phone. Then it went to the police station, then the dorms. It didn’t act like some unfathomable transdimensional creature. It did everything a normal person would do

This should be about all the relevant statements.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Resistance is fine, immunity isn't, yeah.

 

[Greenshifter]

Wouldn’t someone need feats of affecting someone who exits outside of time? Cause I mean a time stop that bypasses resistance for instance isn’t suddenly gonna make Paradox stop existing outside of time.

 

[Greenshifter]

I’d also like to point out that Paradox’s infinite speed was removed since people assumed Paradox was essentially trapped in a timeless void. Timeless voids in Ben 10 also explicitly make time abilities moot since Maltruant tried to stop time before the beginning of time but couldn’t since there was no time for him to stop. So stacking time stop potency isn’t gonna change anything to the fact that there is no time to manipulate to affect Paradox, hence immunity.

 

[Rikimarox2]

That last point is actually a bit interesting. I should probably contact a mod or smth.

 

[FRIMI]

I'd put it as a resistance with a note saying that Paradox can be affected by time stuff specifically when the user has been shown to affect timeless entities

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

Change Immunity to Resistance FRA

 

[FRIMI]

it's already immunity. The thread is to change immunity to resistance

 

[Greenshifter]

I'd put it as a resistance with a note saying that Paradox can be affected by time stuff specifically when the user has been shown to affect timeless entities

Maybe but it could be that these people have immunity negation or something like that in the first place.

 

[FRIMI]

well at that point you're just putting it on the shoulders of the user to have immunity negation regardless of if they fit the criteria to bypass what is otherwise a resistance. Requiring immunity negation sets a pretty bad precedent for how characters are meant to interact

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

it's already immunity. The thread is to change immunity to resistance

I fixed my comment

 

[Greenshifter]

well at that point you're just putting it on the shoulders of the user to have immunity negation regardless of if they fit the criteria to bypass what is otherwise a resistance. Requiring immunity negation sets a pretty bad precedent for how characters are meant to interact

I mean a guy who can use time abilities on someone who's timeless obviously doesn't have baseline time powers and would probably need some sort of negation.

 

[FRIMI]

I suppose so. Though I still think that at this point we may as well just say resistance. It doesn't even change anything about his abilities anyway. If anything, it's merely a clarification

 

[Greenshifter]

Guess we’ll just wait on staff then for the exact wording.

 

[Eficiente]

Exist outside of time or other concepts is often inaccurately said in fiction to give a gimmick about them, sometimes it's immunities and resistances, sometimes it's immunities and resistances to specific things the concepts can do and sometimes it's nothing. Here we can clearly see Paradox get affected by Time Manip and nothing happening due to being immortal, and that's the true meaning of him existing outside of time. It's not like this Time Manip works on a higher degree than normal due affecting him or something.

 

[Greenshifter]

get affected by Time Manip and nothing happening due to being immortal

He’s immortal because he exists outside of time though.

• Paradox: You don’t know the half of it. Some tiny miscalculation on my part destabilized the experiment and ripped a hole in the fabric of reality. I was hurled into the event horizon. I must’ve spent 100 thousand years there. I didn’t age or need to sleep or eat. Just exist.
• The experiment that releases the creature also unsticks me in time, and that must happen because [chuckles] in all modesty

Wouldn’t no resistance at all contradict this? Like we physically see him get dragged outside of time so it’s not that you can say that him existing outside of time actually means him being immortal (and nothing else) or else he wouldn’t have all the powers he has.

There’s also no anti-feats for the monster itself so it working on a higher degree that normal is possible and if it’s a blatant contradiction then we should probably take the option that doesn’t contradict Paradox being who he is, that also got stated more than him being affected by time manipulation.

 

[Firestorm808]

Just change it to resistance.

 

[Eficiente]

It's not a resistance, he's immortal and we outright see him affected by the power.

• Paradox: You don’t know the half of it. Some tiny miscalculation on my part destabilized the experiment and ripped a hole in the fabric of reality. I was hurled into the event horizon. I must’ve spent 100 thousand years there. I didn’t age or need to sleep or eat. Just exist.

He didn't age due to being immortal.

• The experiment that releases the creature also unsticks me in time, and that must happen because [chuckles] in all modesty

This could mean many things, namely how he has to deal with it there with Ben and not as easily as he could with his powers.

Wouldn’t no resistance at all contradict this? Like we physically see him get dragged outside of time so it’s not that you can say that him existing outside of time actually means him being immortal (and nothing else) or else he wouldn’t have all the powers he has.

He got all the powers he has because of what happened to him+his studies there, you can't invent him more BS powers and stuff than what a character has on his own. And do we even know he was outside of time? An event horizon doesn't obligatorily lead to it as you show and him saying to exist outside of time is as untrue as most characters doing the same when, it turns out, they're right there in the universe with everyone and the rest of the concepts there.

There’s also no anti-feats for the monster itself so it working on a higher degree that normal is possible and if it’s a blatant contradiction then we should probably take the option that doesn’t contradict Paradox being who he is, that also got stated more than him being affected by time manipulation.

No anti-feat is needed as what he said in inaccurate. Saying something pointless like this then Paradox is also shown in time by way of being always in the universe with everyone even tho he said to be outside of time, there you have an anti-feat.

 

[Greenshifter]

Just change it to resistance.

With Frimi's note added?

 

[Greenshifter]

It's not a resistance, he's immortal and we outright see him affected by the power.

He didn't age due to being immortal.

This could mean many things, namely how he has to deal with it there with Ben and not as easily as he could with his powers.

He got all the powers he has because of what happened to him+his studies there, you can't invent him more BS powers and stuff than what a character has on his own. And do we even know he was outside of time? An event horizon doesn't obligatorily lead to it as you show and him saying to exist outside of time is as untrue as most characters doing the same when, it turns out, they're right there in the universe with everyone and the rest of the concepts there.

No anti-feat is needed as what he said in inaccurate. Saying something pointless like this then Paradox is also shown in time by way of being always in the universe with everyone even tho he said to be outside of time, there you have an anti-feat.

He's struggling to keep it back, I don't see him being affected.

He became immortal due to getting stuck outside of time.

The full thing is actually him saying they can't interfere with the experiment or else he might not get stuck outside of time and get his powers. The important part is him getting unstuck in time.

In the episode Ben Again Paradox warns Eon that too many time travelers in one time could end up creating a rupture and he'd end up outside of time. State of existence says hi. Paradox is presumably incapable of lying btw since Eon, his archnemesis, stated he is no liar and completely believed his word.

And Hunter Zolomon fused with a random wormhole when he got derailed of the timestream and can move it freely across it yet he still appears in the universe.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

It's not a resistance, he's immortal and we outright see him affected by the power.

No he wasn't? Those monsters were specifically meant to age anything it touches to the dust the fact that Paradox didn't get aged (due to type 1 immortality) already proves that he never got affected by their powers, all what happened is that he was struggling nothing else

 

[Eficiente]

He said to feel the eons passing, they were passing due to the Time Manip and it did nothing to him due o being immortal, simple as that.

He was sent outside of time then, but this in turns means nothing in this context of him having a resistance to something he didn't show.

 

[Greenshifter]

How do you time manipulate someone in a timeless void again? At worst it's a blatant contradiction but feat + several statements > 1 anti-statement.

 

[Eficiente]

They were not in a timeless void, but he can be outside of time if sent there.

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

So, just change it to a strong resistance against time stop? Okay, sounds good

 

[Eficiente]

No reason for it.

 

[Greenshifter]

They were not in a timeless void, but he can be outside of time if sent there.

Paradox states he exists outside of time while “in” the universe so his “prior” existence of being in a timeless void still holds. I assume that’s kind of his power, to be in the universe while still being outside of time (similar to Hunter Zolomon) and hence all his powers he has.

 

[Eficiente]

Yeah and Raiden from MK I guess also has the power to exist outside the universe while being in the universe due to claiming the same? You are the one putting together how since Paradox was at one point outside of time when he got his powers then that place has the unproven characteristics of resisting Time Manip and that when Paradox said to exist outside of time he meant to be simultaneously in time and outside it like he was before, only contracting how he still gets affected by Time Manip by way of giving that Time Manip a scale higher than normal Time Manip because it has no contradictions of it.

Or, "I exist outside of time! I'm still getting aged a lot of years by Time Manip but I won't die of it!" just means he's immortal with the first sentence being poetic or inaccurate about it, making the dialogue pretty much be "I can take this. Well, it is affecting me, but it will do nothing.".

 

[FRIMI]

do we ever see paradox directly interact with maltruent? I can't remember any off the top of my head. But if there's a physical feat of him being unaffected by time manipulation, that'd be most likely where

 

[Greenshifter]

No but a part of the power source of his Chrono Navigator (a time crystal) was put inside the Time Cycles which were unaffected by Maltruant's time stop. Doubt it matters tho, I'll address Eficiente's points shortly. Oh and IIRC Eon doesn't bother using time powers on Paradox as well, granted he only has age manipulation.

 

[Eficiente]

The time crystal should get a resistance to time stop then if what you say there isn't out of context.

 

[Greenshifter]

Yeah, I don't know if it implies that everyone who holds the Chrono Navigator would also be unaffected or not. Everyone inside the time cycles is obviously unaffected and that's already applied on the page.

Also FYI I don't put stuff out of context, my interpretations may not be the same as yours but I ain't gonna claim stuff that doesn't exist unless I truly misremember something which almost never happens (and if I'm not sure I write IIRC).

 

[Eficiente]

I meant there that the wording was odd, something A was put on something B that resisted time stop so something A has resistence to it? I would only believe something B has it based on it, but then that's not what you implied.

 

[Greenshifter]

Oh ok that way. The time crystal is the only time related thing that's a part of the time cycles, everything else is just parts of a spaceship and motorcycle being upgraded and put together.

 

[Eficiente]

And was it literally simply put there or were its energies or whatever harnessed in some way?

 

[Greenshifter]

Just integrated inside of it. (So yeah just put there)

 

[Eficiente]

Then Paradox might have a resistance to time stop due to it, can you compile evidence of it so I can see it better and for the profile if with go with it?

 

[Greenshifter]

It might be a time slow after thinking about it. There goes my usually not misremembering statement.

I’m a bit busy for now but I got wiki pages for this, just need a way to give you an xml file without giving all the pages.. I’ll probably figure it out tomorrow. The relevant episode is Let’s do the Time War Again (in Omniverse) and the building of the time cycles happens in the middle-ish. Then the time slow resistance feat is in the final episode of Omniverse also somewhere in the middle.