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That is usually what happens. Nothing beats incredulity. Albeit I do see the reasoning for why someone would propose At least a 6x increase.
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Prime All Might Multiplier - Possible Discussion Thread Rule Addition After?
- Thread starter Kingofwolves999
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Sure I just want people to actually think about it before making a choice. Because people in here when given the choice between a small upgrade or a big upgrade always choose the small upgrade by the very fact that it's a small upgrade. Like there should be some actual reasoning to dismiss the 60× multiplier other than the fact that it's a big number and 5-6 sounds better. As it is rn 60× works better than 5-6 for the reasons I gave up above.
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I actually agree with this 60x multiplier surprisingly
Sure, big number=bad, but to be real for a bit, you can use both the 6x AND 60x multiplier, just put the ladder under likely or something, I may prefer only using the ladder, but that can be a compromise solution push comes to shove.
Sure, big number=bad, but to be real for a bit, you can use both the 6x AND 60x multiplier, just put the ladder under likely or something, I may prefer only using the ladder, but that can be a compromise solution push comes to shove.
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Pretty much, either likely or possibly would make sense to have next to both.
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I feel like saying likely or possibly is not fair. It's pretty clear if it's true or not. I think we should just stick with the 60× multiplier for prime allmight relative characters.
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This was rejected back in 2018 and I don't think I've seen anyone debunk the actual points from back then for why we shouldn't use this multiplier.
But right now the most important point is that our Multiplier standards wouldn't allow it.
And another point is the fact the Pro Heroes like Endeavour never realized that All Might had grown drastically weaker since his prime. 60x is a huge drop in value so it seems untimely that nobody actually noticed that All Might was massively weaker.
But right now the most important point is that our Multiplier standards wouldn't allow it.
And another point is the fact the Pro Heroes like Endeavour never realized that All Might had grown drastically weaker since his prime. 60x is a huge drop in value so it seems untimely that nobody actually noticed that All Might was massively weaker.
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Have you ever considered that All Might was good at hiding that he was weaker? Even arguably his biggest fan didn't know until he was told flat out
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You haven't debunked the OPs arguments. And doesn't seem like there's anything left for the OP to debunk. At this point thr only argument against the multiplier is just sheer incredulity and nothing more.
Don't know the exact standards so I won't comment.
Why would they notice anything? He had already worked for decades making himself look the strongest, and his fight with AFO was kept a secret. It literally just means he was so strong (with Shigaraki currently proving this) that him being nerfed simply meant nothing. (He wasn't nerfed bellow any pro heroes for them to notice) Pro heroes don't fight each other and most of the villains are kinda fodder with OP ones like AFO, Overhaul and etc. being a rarity.
So yeah, currently I'm switching from neutral to full on agreement for 60x multiplier since the counter arguments aren't that convincing.
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It being considered an outlier is not just sheer incredulity.
Izuku's One For All isn't depicted to have grown over 60x stronger than when All Might had it.
Characters are not being portrayed as over 60x weaker than Shigaraki. Weaker? Yes. But not to that extent.
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Which you haven't proven why it's an outlier.
Means he has bad control over it. The whole series is him not only mastering % but how to properly utilize it. Hell, even AFO literally depicted the quirk as if an elephant was stomping on ants (rest of the quirks)
OP literally provided Shigaraki no difficulty Pro Heroes such as Mirko. He takes no damage whatsoever and only Bakugou after awakening a 2nd time was even able to "stung" him a bit. This was already addressed so it feels like it's going in circles.
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But they have, multiple times. In here and in other threads about this. The "points" made against the prime allmight multiplier are either misrepresentations of the nomus absorption ability or ignorance.
I doubt it. The multiplier standard is that it needs to be directly stated by a reliable source. We can all agree that allmight is a reliable source so that's out of the way, now is that a direct statement of a multiplier? YES, inherently so. 300÷5 = 60. What does equal mean? It means that those things are the exact same thing just written differently. 300÷5 IS 60, they're the same thing just written differently. It is a direct statement. He explicitly says it would have taken him 5 punches in his prime but it took him over 300 rn. Isn't ignoring that just being disingenuous? If someone says "It would have taken me 5 seconds to cross that distance in my prime but rn it took me 50" wouldn't we all agree that in their prime that person would have been 10× faster? We're just playing word games by dismissing such an obvious thing just because it's not a completely direct exact statement of allmight saying "Yes I was 60× stronger in my prime!".
Why would anyone notice? First of all we all know that allmight was great at hiding the fact that anything even happened to him so he's a great a deceiving people when it comes to that. But also, how would anyone even be able to tell that he got weaker? The whole point of allmight at that time is that nobody was anywhere near close to him, all his opponents he would basically no diff. There would be like a 1000× difference between allmight and his opponent, now if we subtract 60 from that do you think anyone that isn't really really close to allmight or relative to prime allmight in strength would be able to tell the difference? He would still no diff everyone he was fighting because he was still that much stronger. Also, we know that before the sports festival the last time that allmight and endeavor ever met was 10 YEARS AGO. Allmight got his injury 5 YEARS AGO. How was endeavor supposed to figure anything out when he hadn't met allmight in 10 years and allmight got his injury only 5 years ago? Let's be reasonable here.
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How so? Is there a way we can measure weakness portrayal and get a number out of it? What do you need to see for it to be potrayed as over 60× weaker? For them to all instantly explode? Now we both know that the plot would never allow that even if there was 1 million× difference between them. Also, the only characters that were fighting close range with him really were bakugo, who's clearly close to prime allmight level so the difference wouldn't be anywhere near 60×, mirko, who's probably stronger than weakened allmight in the final war as everyone seems to have gotten significantly stronger, and the big 3, which one of them can literally become intangible. Also, they literally all did 0 damage collectively against him. Nothing, not a scratch. Only thing they were doing was literally buying time for deku to arrive, literally that was their entire objective. Only bakugo post-awakening made him FEEL that he got hurt at all. The 60× multiplier works just fine.
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- Thread starter
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I would like to say, just as another point at least for Shigaraki’s durability, that Mirio, with his arms wrapped in Nejire’s energy, cannot even SCRATCH Shigaraki’s skin.
Nejire’s blasts are capable of harming Weakened AM characters, such as Near High Ends and a wounded, Incomplete Shigaraki. She scales directly to the AM that performed over 300 punches. So for her attacks to not even be able to scratch the skin of Complete Shigaraki implies an incredibly vast difference in strength between anyone in her level and him.
Nejire’s blasts are capable of harming Weakened AM characters, such as Near High Ends and a wounded, Incomplete Shigaraki. She scales directly to the AM that performed over 300 punches. So for her attacks to not even be able to scratch the skin of Complete Shigaraki implies an incredibly vast difference in strength between anyone in her level and him.
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Yeah I think we're basically done here. Only reason the multiplier wouldn't get accepted is pure bias from now on or just being ignorant.
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Only thing left is to find a way to get him to at least ftl and we're good.Oh my god, above 7-A MHA and 60x Prime AM multiplier used to be a pipe dream, they said it couldn't be done. Look at us now
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Ok wait question.
If 5 blows were enough to take down Nomu, and Deku’s 100% should be equal to prime All Might.
Then shouldn’t that one punch Deku threw at the Nomu do a bit more of an impact than it did?
Also, shouldn’t Shigaraki have completely splattered Bakugou after his awakening? Because he literally hit him full frontal while he was extremely pissed off so there was no holding back in that attack.
If 5 blows were enough to take down Nomu, and Deku’s 100% should be equal to prime All Might.
Then shouldn’t that one punch Deku threw at the Nomu do a bit more of an impact than it did?
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No because of shock absorption. Also, one for all has become stronger in general throughout the show. Season 1 dekus 100% would be like todays deku 2% or something. For example, in season 3 muscular took multiple 100% punches from a desperate deku, whilst in season 6 deku oneshot muscular with no problem at 45% with one punch nonchalantly.
And that just upgrades bakugo if anything.
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Probably, logically
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- Thread starter
- #62
Deku is no where near Prime AM’s level with his OFA during this arc. Because he can’t handle the power, enough so that it shatters his limbs, he is weaker than All Might, and instead is only comparable to his weakened version. Trust, if he was Prime AM strong, Muscular (who got injured by Dark Deku’s 45%) would have been turned into soup.
Also he never even hit Nomu with 100%, he hit him with a controlled 5%. And considering All Might’s punches also didn’t do anything to Nomu, Deku’s arm breaking version of it wouldn’t really make a difference.
As for Bakugo, he stabbed him in the chest with a spike finger thing, on top of getting blocked and diverted by like 5 people. So working together they did enough to not let Bakugo get completely pierced and he only just had his chest cavity caved in and heart ripped to shreds.
And that same problem persists when Shigaraki evolves, as he then punches Tamaki and Mirko dead on and they don’t go splat either, despite even a casual swipe of his arm being enough to shred the face off of Bakugo, who is on their level. Like, if just grabbing your arm is enough for him to mangle it into a broken, blood splurting mess, why is him punching you with a fist bigger than your body after evolving not just straight killing you and deleting your skull + shattering every bone and organ in your body.
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Yeah, was basically about to answer similarly.
If anything Deku simply has better control over his output as the series moves forward.
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So when are we gonna have the vote on this? Seems pretty straightforward
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- Thread starter
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UA Beginnings Deku 100% = Weakened AM = Dark Hero Deku 45% < JT Deku 100% < Dark Hero Deku 100% (manhandled Weakened AM level Shigaraki) <<< Current Deku 100% (Manhandles above Prime AM level evolved Shigaraki)
It’s a mix of him controlling the power given better, as well as getting stronger to add his own power to it. He’s destined to rise above Prime AM for this reason, and he has simply reached that level now.
It’s a mix of him controlling the power given better, as well as getting stronger to add his own power to it. He’s destined to rise above Prime AM for this reason, and he has simply reached that level now.
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- Thread starter
- #66
I suppose 45% and UA 100% are actually a bit weaker than All Might considering how Shigaraki could hurt him pretty bad with an elbow (even though he just ignored it afterwards and it didn’t actually do anything to him), but it’s comparable, is the main point. His current 45% would match if not outclass his UA 100%
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Current 45% deku is probably prime allmight level if not higher
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Two staff members have voted on it so far and another one commented but not voted yet. The thread has also been open for less than 24 hours so far so there's no rush. It can't be applied anyway till 48 hours have passed since it started.
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Ah okay got it
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Yeah I’d like people to calm down on wanting votes or trying to close this up.
The point is to get this entire discussion completely over with, whichever way it goes. Not rush it to be over and done with. I guess I can start counting votes in the OP but I would very much want more input from other people before applying any changes if they happen.
The point is to get this entire discussion completely over with, whichever way it goes. Not rush it to be over and done with. I guess I can start counting votes in the OP but I would very much want more input from other people before applying any changes if they happen.
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- #71
OP updated with votes
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Couple things.
1) wasn’t muscular already weakened from another student?
2) Deku did a controlled 5%? I could’ve sworn he like put all his power into that blow against the Nomu since he literally just saw Asui about to be murdered right in front of him. Shigaraki even mentions how Deku was about to “murder him” when he did it.
3)
This page looks pretty confusing to be honest but it looks to be Shigaraki is slamming Bakugou’s chest in. (His heart being pierced wasn’t from Shigaraki, it was from his own explosions going on internally inside his body which made his heart pop.)
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1) Yes but not much and he had already reinforced his body by a lot. Whilst in season 3 he took a 100% on his arm with very little reinforcement with no problem.Couple things.
1) wasn’t muscular already weakened from another student?
2) Deku did a controlled 5%? I could’ve sworn he like put all his power into that blow against the Nomu since he literally just saw Asui about to be murdered right in front of him. Shigaraki even mentions how Deku was about to “murder him” when he did it.
3)
This page looks pretty confusing to be honest but it looks to be Shigaraki is slamming Bakugou’s chest in. (His heart being pierced wasn’t from Shigaraki, it was from his own explosions going on internally inside his body which made his heart pop.)
2) Doesn't matter because of shock absorption
3)Well we can't really see well what's going on so that's that. But we can also say it's plot induced stupidity or personally bakugo is just that strong/durable. I mean he was always growing alongside deku, and it's clear he's supposed to be a god tier in the verse. He's probably around prime allmight level post-awakening. I mean just look at Tokoyami.
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His weakening only kicked in after his muscles fibers began to snap. Before they point, when Muscular was about to kill Shindo, 45% Deku came in and kicked muscular across the city block despite him being in his super buffed up form.Couple things.
1) wasn’t muscular already weakened from another student?
2) Deku did a controlled 5%? I could’ve sworn he like put all his power into that blow against the Nomu since he literally just saw Asui about to be murdered right in front of him. Shigaraki even mentions how Deku was about to “murder him” when he did it.
3)
This page looks pretty confusing to be honest but it looks to be Shigaraki is slamming Bakugou’s chest in. (His heart being pierced wasn’t from Shigaraki, it was from his own explosions going on internally inside his body which made his heart pop.)
Deku says, right after he punches Nomu, that his arm isn’t broken because he managed to control it. He later says that he controlled it because he was using it on a person for the first time, managing to unconsciously hold back his power.
As for Bakugo, no, it’s stated by Best Jeanist that his heart was ripped apart, not that his explosions caused it to happen. There was also damage to his lungs and other internal organs, and Shigaraki constantly mocks and stances that he was the one that killed him. If his heart literally popped from his explosions and not Shigaraki shanking him with a massive spike that left a gaping hole in his chest, someone would have mentioned it.
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1. This could be used to argue him barely growing weaker at all.
2. Prime All Might only ever had one guy match him, he doesn't go all out against random street villains.
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Isn't that a direct contradiction of what is being proposed here?
What exactly are people proposing for Shigaraki here? Because he had statements of being comparable to All Might back during the Paranormal Liberation War arc too.
The Hawks Villain Report also supports that he was on par with All Might in his prime during that arc as right after the "On par with All Might in his heyday!" statement it is said that he has a tough durable body that can withstand Endeavour's attacks and speed that catches up with Deku and Bakugo... which are feats he displayed during the PLW Arc.
And I don't think there are any statements or solid indications that he grew 60x stronger between the PLW arc and the Final War arc.
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Those statements for Endeavor/Deku/Bakugo are also followed up by talking about his infinite finger growths, and the comment from Bakugo talks about how he got stabbed, so there’s no question they’re judging Shigaraki based on his current form/Final Act version, wherein he constantly says he’s Prime AM level in every stat. That’s more so the Hawks report noting what he is capable of when compared to their best fighters, which is that he can take Endeavor’s attacks and is faster than Deku and Bakugo easily. Which is all true, but isn’t exactly putting a cap on him of some kind.
Why could be not get 60x stronger?
His procedure was stopped when he was 75% complete, with the main issue being that his growth/body was wildly unstable. As seen during the chapters leading up to the war, Shigaraki had a LOOOONG way to go from 75% to full completion, and his body’s strength, as outlined in the OP, is heavily dependent on his mental state due to the fight for control going on.
Doctor Garaki claims that Shigaraki “isn’t quite as strong as All Might” in the same fight where he’s compared to All Might. Yet now, after his taming of the growth powers and the further mind meld between AFO and Shigaraki, he is making claims that he is without a doubt equal to All Might in his prime. So whatever happened during the timeskip, where he was working explicitly to control and evolve his body, must have pushed him further than either Garaki suspected, or this was always the end goal of his 100% completion.
I feel saying “he CAN’T have gotten 60x stronger” isn’t really an argument given the violently chaotic and every changing nature of his body due to his evolutions. The finger growths alone show that he has changed SIGNIFICANTLY over the course of his 1 month adaptation period.
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The endeavor/hero argument I've already taken care of in its entirety in another reply so that's done.
Now, we can all agree that manga statements>non-manga statement, so I wouldn't even take hawks villain report into consideration. But let's do so, it's still not a good argument. Firstly, Dr Garaki who created this version of shigaraki said himself that he's weaker than allmight, not prime allmight, allmight. So he would probably be around weakened allmight level seeing as the heros could damage him a lot such as nejire, whilst in the final war they can't even scratch him. So not only is it garakis word vs hawks in which garaki knows much more, garakis statement is supported by what's shown in the manga.
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My point is that you're suggesting something that says "he barely got weaker," when he is explicitly shown to be much weaker.
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Nope, Bakugou’s heart definitely exploded here.
See his heart literally pops before he’s hit in the chest by Shigaraki. It also says his explosions were going on internally in his own body so it makes sense that a lot of his internal organs are damaged as a result.
I also didn’t see Shigaraki “stab” Bakugou in the image I posted above, it looks more like just a straight punch compared to the other spikes protruding from out his body.
See his heart literally pops before he’s hit in the chest by Shigaraki. It also says his explosions were going on internally in his own body so it makes sense that a lot of his internal organs are damaged as a result.
I also didn’t see Shigaraki “stab” Bakugou in the image I posted above, it looks more like just a straight punch compared to the other spikes protruding from out his body.
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