>Thats not what I said. I said that the difference between Base Rayquaza and the Primal Duo wouldnt be as big as the difference between Mega Rayquaza and the Primal Duo. Not that there isnt a big difference between Base forms and Mega Evolution.
Except the gap between base and mega Ray is so large that any notion of the primals backscaling to the mega is thrown out the window otherwise they'd murk base, which is obviously not the case.
>Yes, which is according to a vague statement of him overwhelming them. All we know is that Base Rayquaza's power is stronger than the 2 Primals, not that Base Ray's strength stomps theirs to the point where they are barely incomparable.
Nobody said he stomped them, nor did I imply that? The Primals and base can contend with each other, I said that. Base doesn't stomp them, he can defeat them both at once, but nobody said it was done with zero effort, we don't know. All we know is that Base>Both Primals at minimum. Thus, scaling base and the primals are fine. Nobody is arguing otherwise, in fact everybody here seems to agree with that notion. Though, checking the game, it's actually said that Base's strength was enough to overwhelm both the Primals at once. So the gap may be larger than I was giving it credit.
>Actually your not entirely right here either. The Primals were unable to stop the Grand Meteor Delta because Maxie and Archie weakened them beforehand. The latters were bonded to Groudon and Kyogre via the red and blue orbs, and were in the process of being disintegrated. As a result, the Primals power was drained and allowed the meteor to overpower them.
Yeah except not before being put on their ass by mere debris of the smaller one, which they had to work together to take down, and even then several characters had their doubts. And when it was revealed that there was actually two meteors, it was entirely like "well ****, where's mega ray". Did Maxie and Archie begin to die? Yes. But that doesn't somehow make the primals drastically weaker, that's never actually said anywhere. In fact, Archie and Maxie explicitly point out that they'd need much more power if they even hope to do anything about Grand Delta, then they proceed to fall apart because the tiny meteorite, comparatively, took up the remaining energy, and base fug and the primals then proceeded to take similar damage from the fall out, directly confirming that 1. The Primals lacked the power to stop Grand Delta, and if they wanted to, they'd need to get drastically stronger, opposed to Mega Ray who annihilated it completely. And 2. The Primals and base took about the same damage from the fallout, implying a similar scale of power, ie, not comparable to Mega Ray but base. And that last bit is false, they actually succeeded in destroying the meteor, the small one, it was the fact they succeeded that drained them, but they stayed Primal long enough to get put on their ass, which doesn't actually change my point at all. It's shown clear as day that the Primals can't hold a candle to Grand Delta and the Dragon Ascent that destroyed it, took about the same amount of damage from the fallout of the same one as base did. This is pretty obvious. Giovanni even makes mention of how the meteor coming in a few days is likely hundreds of times larger and that it took the primals and base all that power just to destroy that smaller one, and funnily enough, he's wrong, Grand Delta is billions of times bigger. But honestly that doesn't matter, the point is, it took both Primals and Base to destroy something, it taking so much power that it accelerates Arche and Maxie's death, that it literally kills him, with the fallout putting the primals on their ass, knocking them out (and mind you, they got hit while they were still in primal, Arche and Maxie dying would have just reverted them back to normal, but it wouldnt have knocked them out cold, that was the debris' doing), yet Mega Ray could obliterate something hundreds (actually billions) of times bigger with one attack. I'm just repeating myself now but you get the point, it's not even comparable. Mega Ray>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Base/Primals.
>Never in that special was it said or established they couldnt overpower it, they were screwed over by Maxie and Archie's deaths limiting their power.
It actually was, Archie and Maxie outright they say they arent strong enough to do so, and that was before they started falling apart, in which case they proceed to fall apart right after because the small meteor was a big enough issue for them already. Also you keep saying it limits their power, but that's not actually true, it doesnt actually say that, it limits the time they have and the time they can stay primal as they need a host, but that doesnt actually effect the Primals output unless I missed something somewhere, that's just conjecture on your part.
>See above for this.
Yes, I even went ahead and reread the ORAS chapter. I was only slightly wrong on it being said the Primals were incapable of destroying Grand Delta, it was said, but just not by who I thought it was. Either way. The debris knocked them on their ass despte getting hit in Primal, Arche and Maxie stated they would need to get much stronger if they ever hoped to stop Delta because at the moment, they're struggling with something hundreds of times smaller (actually billions). They take comparable damage to base, not mega. And it's made quite clear that Mega Ray can do said feat with zero issue at all, no hesitation.
>There's no contradiction at all. In the games, Mega Ray explicity defeated them through hax via Delta Streams ability to drain them of their power overtime. The manga, again, is also not a contradiction since the primals were outright weakened by Archie and Maxie's deaths via being connected to them through the orbs. The only slither of an argument you have against me is Base Rayquaza being stronger than those 2, which, can mean anything from being light years ahead of them in power to only being barely stronger.
Yes, Mega Ray beat them and Delta Stream stopped their weather, nobody said or implied it was overtime though. Actually, this is what we're told.
Base was powerful enough to outright overwhelm both Primals at once with raw power. Thus, Base>>Primals.
The second time, the primals got into a clash again, the people wished for ray to come save them, that wish and praying called Ray and automatically turned him Mega due to the connection of the people, upon going mega, his Delta Stream then proceeded to sap the power from both Primals, turning them into their base, after which Mega Ray flew away.
What's this mean? It means your claim is false, or at least is implying a falsehood, there was no overtime, there was no fight. Mega Ray incapped both without even needing to lay a finger on them, we're told that both primals lost their power when Delta Stream activated, with zero implication or statement of a drawn out fight, or any fight at all, in fact it implies it was super fast and happened then and there judging by the wording.
So, we have Base being strong enough to overwhelm both Primals at the same time. And we have Mega Ray passively incap with no mention of any sort of fight. And we know that Mega>>>>>>>>>Base. Put two and two together here. If Mega Ray humiliates his base form, and his base form can overwhelm both primals together, then it sure as **** doesnt mean the primals can contend with Mega Ray.
Like dude, I can easily just post the scans and screencaps. You're not wrong on some aspects, yeah, Archie and Maxie did die, and that prevented them from being Primal, but it's also true it took all their effort to stop the meteor at the time and was stated they would fail against Grand Delta by themselves and they don't have the power yet, this was before they began vanishing, with them vanishing being a direct result of the effort it took to stop the small one. And yes, archie and maxie vanishing would revert the primals back to base, but, they were hit while in primal and got knocked out by said hit, they weren't hit in base or got knocked out because of Archie and Maxie, but rather knocked out by debris in primal, in fact base fug in that same event managed to walk off getting hit by the debris despite being in base. Or, yes, Delta Stream did defeat the the Primals in game, but, not overtime and there was no fight, couple that with it being said base was strong enough to outright overwhelm both at once.
You can scale the Primals to Base, but under no circumstance is scaling to Mega Ray happening when the Primals are weaker then base, and base is a laughing stock to Mega, they're consistently shown to be around, albeit weaker than Base as well. You trying to scale them Mega Ray is ludicrous, the only way that would happen is if the Primals could stomp base, yet that's false.
