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Presence vs Pralaya
- Thread starter PRIDEXEGO
- Start date
- 148
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- Thread starter
- #2
Hey guys i just want to know your opinion on this as thier is some guy on youtube claiming hard that pralaya predate presence and she will devour him at the end but when he himself showed that writer himself said ( on twitter) that Pralaya was just a part of Presence as everything is but he rejected and said twitter is not a valid argument.
To me presonally i think Presence is well beyond her by miles and what she said in comics were just statement like when character say like "they will destroy universe but later found dead by the explosion that barely equal nuke.". What actually sealed it for me was how she taken out after few issues.So just want to know what you guys think on this and also since pralaya is void then what is the role of mother night then and which is greater?
To me presonally i think Presence is well beyond her by miles and what she said in comics were just statement like when character say like "they will destroy universe but later found dead by the explosion that barely equal nuke.". What actually sealed it for me was how she taken out after few issues.So just want to know what you guys think on this and also since pralaya is void then what is the role of mother night then and which is greater?
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I mean, depends on your arguments but most people generally believe The Presence is beyond Pralaya and the Sleep of Brahma doesn't mean anything to him. This wiki has accepted The Presence = The Source = The Overvoid which I disagree with but whatever.
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Yeah I don't know how the Source = The Overvoid. I see them as all separate entities and The Presence as just a being who created his own creation like Silkman and Lucifer did their own. The Endless aren't governed by The Presence outside of his creation and they are more so primordial beings that exist in every creation and each creation has an aspect of The Endless, Death being in Lucifer's Creation for example, Destiny wasn't there because Lucifer didn't create it with determinism.
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Wasnt silkman was just a being who got enough power to overpower his creation that he straight up devour his own creation ? and then said he finally escaped death of the endless then later lucifer corrected him and killed him. What about devine presence that spectre mentioned that predate every creation and everything in exsistence? The writer on twitter did mentioned that void is part of presence though.
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Silkman was that entity who has seen countless creations rise and fall and believes he can never die.
Writers on twitter aren't really credible. Also Grant Morrison did not say The Presence = The Overvoid, he was talking about the White Page. When he says "God" he's saying it's the Supreme Entity within Final Crisis not The Presence. In Final Crisis it's literally treated as it's own entity rather than The Presence and sees Creation for the first time which leaves it in shock, it's a "stain" on it's being to it so how could it be The Presence?
We know that The Presence is shaped by humanity too based on an author statement, an entire story-line, various character statements, literally Blight's entire character etc.
Writers on twitter aren't really credible. Also Grant Morrison did not say The Presence = The Overvoid, he was talking about the White Page. When he says "God" he's saying it's the Supreme Entity within Final Crisis not The Presence. In Final Crisis it's literally treated as it's own entity rather than The Presence and sees Creation for the first time which leaves it in shock, it's a "stain" on it's being to it so how could it be The Presence?
We know that The Presence is shaped by humanity too based on an author statement, an entire story-line, various character statements, literally Blight's entire character etc.
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By "Divine Presence" do you mean when The Spectre merged with a "void". The Spectre merged with The Source/The Logoz.
The Source is an aspect of Michael.
The Source is an aspect of Michael.
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Perhaps you could interpret it that way. I feel DC is a very interpretive franchise especially with all the content.
Mother Night? I'm not sure to be quite honest. There pretty much represent the same thing but MN is in Vertigo.
Mother Night? I'm not sure to be quite honest. There pretty much represent the same thing but MN is in Vertigo.
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Pralaya tbh displayed more power and then the Presense. A lot of what is interpreted by the Presense is just that. Interpreted. Also the fact that he can die and not predict it, vs a character whose been said to overtly destroy multiverses. Even the Presense is more powerful, Pralaya has displayed on being a threat to reality itself.
So my vote goes to Pralaya.
So my vote goes to Pralaya.
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- #12
what power got defeated by planting a tree of creation by swamp thing same tree michael destroy without even considering? Look how swamp thing was against great evil beast who was a threat that presence had direactly get envoled with and look interaction of swamp thing and gang with pralaya and even with less op character then what we have at the time of great evil beast and presence didnt think of her exsistence as anything important and didnt even show up because he knew they will stop her also in the story creator word was mentioned the writer on twitter confirmed creator is just a tiny aspect of presence(treat it as you like or ignore it) and so is pralaya and the unconsious void was God. Presence die when? what can he not predict countless multiverses mean nothing to being like presence lucifer etc.
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I think Pralaya will absorb Yahweh (aka Presence avatar), or at least stalemate but she can't do anything to Divine Presence (bcs Dematties stated, that Pralaya is just aspect of God).
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Divine Presence is literally just The Source. DeMatties says a lot of weird stuff on Twitter let's be honest regardless of how great his legacy is. If we took everything he said to be correct, we would be in a mess. We don't really take into account what writers say on twitter most of the time because comics go through more than just one writer and they go through editorial sequences.
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Demattiese's opinion>yours opinion
Bump
Bump
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That doesn't mean anything
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Death of the Author is a thing if his statements contradict what's shown in the work of fiction in question. Whether that applies here or not is another discussion but an author's opinion isn't the be-all-end-all when it comes to indexing his characters.Supreme of Universe said:
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Writer's opinion about his own character>your opinion of that character. This is stupid to argue with that
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That's the thing. Creators make statements of characters all the time on twitter but the Lore is a collective work so what the authors intent is may not equate to how the Cosmology fuctions. It sucks but that's just how comics can be. Although one would have to wonder which writer/author is considered more true in their statements then others.
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Every author has its own canon.
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Prove it.
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If you want to take prove for that, it means that you have never ever read the comics. Bruh
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How it feels reading this
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You are right. I transcend you. You are nothing at best, you know?
I don't talk about your excess weight, about thing, that you don't have girlfriend, because all already know this shit )
I don't talk about your excess weight, about thing, that you don't have girlfriend, because all already know this shit )
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U Boob
Despite this I do think Prayala is capable of absorbing Yahweh personally despite all this. Or the Presense as he's referred as.
Despite this I do think Prayala is capable of absorbing Yahweh personally despite all this. Or the Presense as he's referred as.
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Because Presence sucks, he was killed by simple sword in Volume 2.
Pralaya is infinite void, and all infinite-dimensional creation (accroding Dematties cosmology) is a really tiny within her "infinity"
Pralaya is infinite void, and all infinite-dimensional creation (accroding Dematties cosmology) is a really tiny within her "infinity"
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That's the thing. For all the supposed "Omnipotence" The Presense supposedly has, we are shown time and time again on why he isn't. But the counter to that was that it was all "part of his plan" Kind of weak sauce if you ask me.
We at least know by this and a few other instrances that even the Presense is affected by change like this and can be corrupted in some way which shows that he is not beyond all concepts like an unparalleled force would be.
We at least know by this and a few other instrances that even the Presense is affected by change like this and can be corrupted in some way which shows that he is not beyond all concepts like an unparalleled force would be.
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I mean, Pralaya has more certain feats, Presence has only statements of power
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I guess if the Presense is supposed to be stronger we can just chalk it up to the writers depicting him in a very flaccid manner. That's the thing. These writers need to do a little better at showing instead of telling, even it doesn't spell out everything, feats we see are generally stronger then feats assumed. It's why Chaos King is such a good cosmic villain because we see actively engaging destructive feats. And it helps solidify how much stronger Oblivion is too by restating that Chaos King is just a tiny aspect of Oblivion.
OH LAWD SHE COMIN
OH LAWD SHE COMIN
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I agree but sometimes even plain description can go a long way in making a transcendental being seem incredibly powerful. Even though we don't see any feats, a skilled writer can easily make a being seem godlike without a single stone being disturbed. Now whether or not DC writers achieve this with the Presence is another matter.Dreaming Serpent said:
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I can agree to that.
And yeah, once you get into cosmic level characters it can be hard to show feats without being ridiculous. Even though some would argue that this is is already ridiculous so you might as well do it well.
The One Below All is an example. Very interesting character but it's sort of difficult to gather how strong he is with what is implied (Being an opposite to the One Above All) vs what we see. I still think he's cool though.
And yeah, once you get into cosmic level characters it can be hard to show feats without being ridiculous. Even though some would argue that this is is already ridiculous so you might as well do it well.
The One Below All is an example. Very interesting character but it's sort of difficult to gather how strong he is with what is implied (Being an opposite to the One Above All) vs what we see. I still think he's cool though.
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It's fine at Tier 2 where you can showcase stuff like "writhing in his sleep caused the collapse of entire realities" but when you get to Tier 1, destructive feats just get plain ridiculous and almost impossible to pull of without being silly. Be it Lovecraft or Masada, most of their characters have very few or no 1-A destructive feats to speak off (except Azathoth waking up or something).
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Yeah Yog Sothoth being the ultimate archetype which is explained pretty well within the Silver Key.
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There are cases within the Dreamlands where I remember they stated how he could destroy various realities. Which isn't that hard to believe given he's basically Entropy. The Dreamlands are weird but I wish more people would write stuff about it because it's basically Jungs idea of a world fueled by collective imagination taken into its fantasy extreme.
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I haven't gotten into the EU so I'm mostly going off of canon. And the Dreamlands themselves are pretty insane. One wrong turn will take you stumbling into the Outer Void, some of its creatures can tank the birth and death of entire universes and it seemingly has no end. And that's only Earth's Dreamlands much less the others.
Though, we should continue this on my wall since we might be derailing.
Though, we should continue this on my wall since we might be derailing.
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Yeah good thinking. I apologize.
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this is not presence at all lucifer said it and even writer also break it down for you guysDreaming Serpent said:That's the thing. For all the supposed "Omnipotence" The Presense supposedly has, we are shown time and time again on why he isn't. But the counter to that was that it was all "part of his plan" Kind of weak sauce if you ask me.
We at least know by this and a few other instrances that even the Presense is affected by change like this and can be corrupted in some way which shows that he is not beyond all concepts like an unparalleled force would be.
https://imgur.com/a/Ya9CtDU
please stop spreading this lie.
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