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Pre-Crisis Superman's 2-C Revision
- Thread starter Stefano4444
- Start date
Stefano4444
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- #402
I'm NOT acting about anything, stop putting words in my mouth.
Stefano4444
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- #405
Done as well.
Unless there are other characters that scale to Pre-Crisis Superman that still need to be upgraded, i think we are done here.
Stefano4444
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- #406
Regarding Anti-Monitor scaling to his Anti-Matter Waves, it would be better if that matter can be discussed in another thread.
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He only said I should create a CRT which I said I wasn't even talking about teirs but should explain why a character's own ability without amp doesn't scale to his/herself.
Stefano4444
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- #408
I don't fully remember exactly it is the case, but it could be because the Anti-Matter Waves had been consider as Environmental Destruction rather than Attack Potency.
But as i say, not completely sure.
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The speed force is accepted to be 2-A in Post-Crisis, Wally’s possibly rating had to with the absorption feat itself iirc.
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I think it's more of a feat for Supergirl than an anti feat for Monitor, especially since Superman does have a possible 2-A key
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Reverse flash did say his NSF is outside of time and space in PC anyways that's Negative Speed Force I guess.
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Okay. What do the rest of you think?
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Reading the Maaldor Collapse feat again, wouldn't this only qualify for High 3-A since there's no mention of Timelines or the like being affected?
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I disagree with that, it seems clear the scope of Maaldor’s destruction would affect all of space-time. The story uses terminology like “All neighboring dimensions”, “all existence”, “this universe and all other universes”, “the whole known multiverse”.
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We know that Maaldor is a living universe, and he's going to drag other Universes with him in the collapse. Nothing really implies he's dragging entire timelines into his universal collapse. Do we consider "all existance" or the "whole known multiverse" to be a collection of Universes or a collection of timelines in this comic?
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I mean... when has someone destroying all of existence, including a known infinite Multiverse, ever just been considered High 3-A? Not trying to be combative i'm actually curious if thats ever been the case.
All of existence would include various timelines, and dimensions directly connected to the Multiverse itself like the Time Dimension, which is absolutely 4D. Maaldors dimension was also stated to be "beyond time" so its not an issue of range. I'm pretty sure destroying all of the Multiverse would also include the offshoot Universes that were directly caused by splits in the timeline like Earth 295. Either way i don't see why destroying "all of existence" in any scenario here would only be High 3-A. Its literally the Multiverse and everything in it is being destroyed, and COIE proves that timelines are apart of the Multiverse when you count "all of existence".
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The reason I brought up the topic is that in a staff thread, I brought up the example of a character destroying 10 universes, but it's not specified if it extended to 10 entire timelines. It would be considered at least High 3-A, possibly 2-C without further context.
Thanks for bringing up the Time Dimension as that was used for the 2-A Jaxon feat. I want to make sure we covered all the context for an accurate interpretation.
Thanks for bringing up the Time Dimension as that was used for the 2-A Jaxon feat. I want to make sure we covered all the context for an accurate interpretation.
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Thats perfectly fine, but its just i've never heard of someone destroying an Infinite Multiverse every being considered High 3-A, destroying 10 Universes i could totally get, but in almost every other verse i've ever seen on this site if someone blows up infinite universes within a confirmed infinite multiverse its never really been questioned if its 2-A or not.
But i get trying to cover all bases, that makes sense.
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According to our current Tiering system, we have the following:
High 3-A: High Universe level
Characters who demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D area or an infinite number of finite or infinite universes when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time, or more generally any realm of comparable size.We're currently going through a Tiering System revision, so we might clarify this when we get to it.
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I guess it never gets applied because almost all infinite multiverses have timelines or their own 4D spaces. (That or theres a lot of verses that need to get potentially downgraded because they don't mention timelines for their multi universe feats)
But yeah i don't think it would matter either way, since again, the Time Dimension and time itself is considered a part of existence as shown in COIE and with DC's guide to Universes.
But yeah i don't think it would matter either way, since again, the Time Dimension and time itself is considered a part of existence as shown in COIE and with DC's guide to Universes.
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I’m under the impression that by default we consider destruction encompassing multiple separate space-time continuums as Tier 2, as in order to breach dimensional barriers you’d have to be affecting space-time. This is why Beerus and Chamapa’s statement of being able to destroy 2 universes is considered Tier 2 despite space-time not being explicitly mentioned.
Stefano4444
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- #424
For what i know separated universes are always been treated (at least usually) as 2-C structures, it isn't limited to just separated timelines.
Like Maverick say, its the reason why Beerus and Champa's clash its consider 2-C, same with God of War, Saint Seiya and Marvel Odin.
Like Maverick say, its the reason why Beerus and Champa's clash its consider 2-C, same with God of War, Saint Seiya and Marvel Odin.
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This needs to be reworded as it sounds counterintuitive to 2-C to 2-A and their definitions.
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That is how I have understood things as well, but it is an area that has been under a lot of contest recently.
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@DontTalkDTThis needs to be reworded as it sounds counterintuitive to 2-C to 2-A and their definitions.
I apologise about bothering you so much recently, but what do you think about this?
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If the two universes are within space time continuums separately, and you "Destroyed 2 or more of them through physical might", you pretty much need to have 2-C or greater levels of striking strength. It be a different story in a Quilted Multiverse or Bubble Multiverse and destroying multiple Observable Universes within the same Quilted Multiverse; would just be massive levels of 3-A. But even simply effecting more than one timeline through a big explosion that also stated to destroy the "universes" should be multiversal outright. Inverse Square Law technically applies to 4-D or 5-D explosions too; makes no sense for an explosion to be Multiversal in range and simply 3-A in AP.
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@DontTalkDTThis needs to be reworded as it sounds counterintuitive to 2-C to 2-A and their definitions.
We would appreciate some input from you about this.
