Potential Aizen/Yhwach/Ichigo Downgrade

[Peter1129]

Are you serious right now? You actually believe Dangai Ichigo > Merged Hollow True Bankai Ichigo?

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Question, how is Quincy Arc Ichigo even stronger than Dangai Ichigo? That is a bs. Dangai Ichigo was so powerful that no one was able to sense his reiryoku, not even Aizen even after Ichigo used Final Getsuga Tensho. Yet everyone was able to sense Quincy Arc Ichigo's reiryoku even after Ichigo went Bankai on Yhwach. I wasn't like Quincy Arc Ichigo was holding back either. So no, Final Getsuga Tensho Ichigo > Quincy Arc Ichigo.

Uh EVERYBODY (With the exception of Yamamoto) in the Quincy War arc got way stronger than in the FKT Arc, that's why they can now sense him, Aizen is literally stated to be stronger than before and he was in a Bondage chair !

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Question, how is Quincy Arc Ichigo even stronger than Dangai Ichigo? That is a bs. Dangai Ichigo was so powerful that no one was able to sense his reiryoku, not even Aizen even after Ichigo used Final Getsuga Tensho. Yet everyone was able to sense Quincy Arc Ichigo's reiryoku even after Ichigo went Bankai on Yhwach. I wasn't like Quincy Arc Ichigo was holding back either. So no, Final Getsuga Tensho Ichigo > Quincy Arc Ichigo.

Uh EVERYBODY (With the exception of Yamamoto) in the Quincy War arc got way stronger than in the FKT Arc, that's why they can now sense him, Aizen is literally stated to be stronger than before and he was in a Bondage chair !

I thought Aizen got weaker after he lost his Hollow powers? Or else why was Kisuke able to sense his reiryoku when he originally couldn't because of how strong Aizen was? Nothing implies Quincy Arc Kisuke is stronger than Arrancar Arc Kisuke with the exception of using Bankai, because we haven't seen him train at all during the time-skip.

 

[Bobybobster]

@TFO Yhwach's casual attacks are 5-C, which is why they scale, we don't assume a character drops a tier because they were casual anyway unless there's strong evidence for it.
I have a problem with Aizen scaling because of the huge amounts of contradictory anti feats he has literally afterward by far less devastating attacks from.

Black attack>Casual Yhwach Hand.

the only attack we know for certain aizen took was the initial blast that destroyed the chair (i mean this was a pretty durable chair too, as it withstood hado 90). Rest was KS. Then he got "nani?!" fcked when yhwach resurrected, kinda like how yhwach got fcked by ichigo when he was in KS.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Just because he looks human doesn't mean he lost the Hollow Powers, again it can actually be another evolution made by the Hougyoku, And it was Kisuke and some other people who said his powers have gotten stronger even though he was in the Muken

And Aizen was wearing Reiatsu bindings that were limiting him

 

[Bobybobster]

Question, how is Quincy Arc Ichigo even stronger than Dangai Ichigo? That is a bs. Dangai Ichigo was so powerful that no one was able to sense his reiryoku, not even Aizen even after Ichigo used Final Getsuga Tensho. Yet everyone was able to sense Quincy Arc Ichigo's reiryoku even after Ichigo went Bankai on Yhwach. I wasn't like Quincy Arc Ichigo was holding back either. So no, Final Getsuga Tensho Ichigo > Quincy Arc Ichigo.

Uh EVERYBODY (With the exception of Yamamoto) in the Quincy War arc got way stronger than in the FKT Arc, that's why they can now sense him, Aizen is literally stated to be stronger than before and he was in a Bondage chair !

I thought Aizen got weaker after he lost his Hollow powers? Or else why was Kisuke able to sense his reiryoku when he originally couldn't because of how strong Aizen was? Nothing implies Quincy Arc Kisuke is stronger than Arrancar Arc Kisuke with the exception of using Bankai, because we haven't seen him train at all during the time-skip.

its the opposite, aizen was said to be stronger in the final arc.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Soul King Yhwach only ranges to High 6-A in AP when he has the Almighty off. When he had the Almighty off he was playing around with True Shikai Ichigo who is High 6-A in AP (even then, a playing around Almighty off Soul King Yhwach was still trouncing the High 6-A True Shikai Ichigo).
Upon Ichigo reaching Hollow Merge True Shikai, he attained 5-C since he was making Soul King Yhwach bleed. This 5-C Hollow Merge True Shikai Ichigo then enters the more powerful Hollow Merge True Bankai mode. Soul King Yhwach then turns on the Almighty and casually defeats this much stronger 5-C Hollow Merge True Bankai Ichigo.

After casually defeating the 5-C Hollow Merge True Bankai Ichigo, Soul King Yhwach absorbs the 5-C Hollow Merge True Bankai Ichigo's powers, the vastly High 6-A Gerard's powers and the High 6-A Haschwalth's powers.

The Yhwach that goes to fight Aizen was a casual 5-C character who had just absorbed another 5-C's powers and two High 6-A's powers.

There is literally no reason for Aizen to not scale from no selling an attack from this new Yhwach.

Quoting my last comment since I don't know what happened to this discussion.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Just because he looks human doesn't mean he lost the Hollow Powers, again it can actually be another evolution made by the Hougyoku, And it was Kisuke and some other people who said his powers have gotten stronger even though he was in the Muken
And Aizen was wearing Reiatsu bindings that were limiting him

Again, Kisuke was unable to sense Transcended Aizen's reiatsu because of how powerful he was, so it makes no reason for him to be able to sense even a stronger Aizen's reiatsu, unless either Aizen gotten weaker or Kisuke gotten stronger. Kisuke was never shown training at all, so it has to be that Aizen getting weaker. Same with Ichigo. If an ordinary human like Orihime can sense Ichigo's reiatsu, it makes no sense for Quincy Arc Ichigo to be stronger than Dangai Ichigo, whom not even Aizen was able to sense his reiatsu. Unless you are telling me Orihime currently is stronger than Hollow Aizen.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

She doesn't need to be stronger, Bankai Ichigo from FKT Arc was weaker than Isshin but he could still sense Rockstar Aizen even though Urahara, Isshin himself and Yoruichi couldn't sense him

So you're also saying that Yhwach is weaker Hollow Aizen ? Because she didn't get killed by being around him

Urahara, the guy who plans a thousand steps ahead would likely have to train in order to prepare himself for combat

 

[JohnCenaNation]

She doesn't need to be stronger, Bankai Ichigo from FKT Arc was weaker than Isshin but he could still sense Rockstar Aizen even though Urahara, Isshin himself and Yoruichi couldn't sense him
So you're also saying that Yhwach is weaker Hollow Aizen ? Because she didn't get killed by being around him

Urahara, the guy who plans a thousand steps ahead would likely have to train in order to prepare himself for combat

I thought Ichigo, Urahara, Isshin, and Yoruichi could sense Aizen's reiatsu until Aizen started further hollowfying?

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Nope, even in his Coocoon Form Aizen could not be sensed, except for Ichigo, who was the weakest of the people in that fight

 

[AppleLord]

Transcendent Reiatsu = God ki.

You can not be sense, but people stronger than you can still harm you.

Ex: God Aizen burning Dangai Ichigo's harm when he couldn't sense his power. He himself admitted that he couldn't sense his power twice.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Nope, even in his Coocoon Form Aizen could not be sensed, except for Ichigo, who was the weakest of the people in that fight

How is Ichigo the weakest among the group? Shikai Kisuke couldn't even do jack against base Ulquiorra and only managed to outlast Aizen due to prep time. Yoruichi broke her arm during her fight against base Yammy and almost died to his cero. Base Isshin in his prime couldn't even beat White, a non-arrancar hollow without even activating his Shikai. Bankai Ichigo fought near on par against Bankai Gin who is easily above everyone of the Espada.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Casual Kisuke made Ulq run off, Yoruichi didn't reinforce her arm hence why it got injured against Yammy's Hierro (unless you are saying Yammy's hierro >>> Cocoon Aizen in durability), Base FKT Isshin (weaker than Prime Shikai Isshin) was matching/handling Aizen (White isn't as weak you think it is) and Ichigo (masked) managing to fight Gin just cements the fact that the other three are stronger seeing as they could actually do something to Aizen while Ichigo needed to go all out just to put a scratch on the guy.

 

[HST_Master]

How is Ichigo the weakest among the group? Shikai Kisuke couldn't even do jack against base Ulquiorra and only managed to outlast Aizen due to prep time. Yoruichi broke her arm during her fight against base Yammy and almost died to his cero. Base Isshin in his prime couldn't even beat White, a non-arrancar hollow without even activating his Shikai. Bankai Ichigo fought near on par against Bankai Gin who is easily above everyone of the Espada.

1st

No. Gin is not above all the espada.

White is a prototype Hollow made from the souls of several soul reapers and later influences Ichigo's Soul Reaper powers.

Kisuke never fought Ulquiorra, in fact the appearance of them made Ulquiorra decide to retreat for the moment. He even admitted they'd lose.

>She injured her arm fighting Yammy

Because of Hierro. Otherwise she was slapping him.

That said you're derailing with this.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

I'm pretty sure Gin is considetably above at least most of the Espada

 

[AstralKing7]

^Same

The way I see it Ichigo=All three of those guys fighting Aizen together

 

[HST_Master]

Not saying all the espada stomp but to say he's above the Top 3 and Segunda Etapa Ulquiorra is not true

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Eh...Except Isshin, he flicked off Base Aizen and he even cut Coocon Aizen almost in half with his Gestuga and I'm not sure if he was using his Shikai or just his regular Sealed Zanpakuto, while Ichigo needed both his Bankai and his Hollow Mask to wound Base Aizen

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Not saying all the espada stomp but to say he's above the Top 3 and Segunda Etapa Ulquiorra is not true

The Top 3 being who ? Because I'm pretty sure Segunda Etapa Ulquiorra and Released Halibel can actually go either way

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Not saying all the espada stomp but to say he's above the Top 3 and Segunda Etapa Ulquiorra is not true

Why would Gin be the commander of the Espada Army alongside Tosen if he is not above everyone of the Espada? That's like saying Yhwach is weaker than the Sternritters even though he is the emperor of the Quincy. A commander can never be weaker than their army.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Gin could beat Base Ulq. R1 slapped 1st Mask Ichigo around without any problems, Gin is getting pwned.

@Astral

No way in hell does Ichigo = Shikai Kisuke with prep + Anti-Hierro Yoruichi + FKT Isshin. Uahara w/prep was enough to beat Aizen if not for the Hogyoku, Isshin looked to be on his way to beating Aizen as well and I wouldn't put it past Yoruichi to be able to match up with those two.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Isshin was at base, his Shikai is fire; however, this as really derailed again. I don't see why Transcendence matters here when we are literally told characters are stronger than previous Transcendent characters.

Soul King Yhwach only ranges to High 6-A in AP when he has the Almighty off. When he had the Almighty off he was playing around with True Shikai Ichigo who is High 6-A in AP (even then, a playing around Almighty off Soul King Yhwach was still trouncing the High 6-A True Shikai Ichigo).
Upon Ichigo reaching Hollow Merge True Shikai, he attained 5-C since he was making Soul King Yhwach bleed. This 5-C Hollow Merge True Shikai Ichigo then enters the more powerful Hollow Merge True Bankai mode. Soul King Yhwach then turns on the Almighty and casually defeats this much stronger 5-C Hollow Merge True Bankai Ichigo.

After casually defeating the 5-C Hollow Merge True Bankai Ichigo, Soul King Yhwach absorbs the 5-C Hollow Merge True Bankai Ichigo's powers, the vastly High 6-A Gerard's powers and the High 6-A Haschwalth's powers.

The Yhwach that goes to fight Aizen was a casual 5-C character who had just absorbed another 5-C's powers and two High 6-A's powers.

There is literally no reason for Aizen to not scale from no selling an attack from this new Yhwach.

Quoting my last comment since I don't know what happened to this discussion.

Quoting myself again to get the discussion back on track.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Gin could beat Base Ulq. R1 slapped 1st Mask Ichigo around without any problems, Gin is getting pwned.
@Astral

No way in hell does Ichigo = Shikai Kisuke with prep + Anti-Hierro Yoruichi + FKT Isshin. Uahara w/prep was enough to beat Aizen if not for the Hogyoku, Isshin looked to be on his way to beating Aizen as well and I wouldn't put it past Yoruichi to be able to match up with those two.

Scarmask Ichigo (Prime) > Yammy (Strongest Espada), and Gin was toying with Ichigo through the entire fight even after Ichigo don his Scarmask.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

The same prime Scarmask that Gin was bullying around ?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Ichigo put a scratch on Yammy. Ichigo couldn't touch R1 Ulq even when the guy stayed still took a hit Kenpachi style. Yammy being the strongest Espada is a joke. Gin gets beat by Ulq via feats.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

The same prime Scarmask that Gin was bullying around ?

Yes. Gin even took a Getsuga Tensho to the face barely injured.

 

[HST_Master]

@JohnCena

Ichigo could barely make a nick on Yammy.

And Gin and Tousen are commanders out of being Aizen's closest subordinates. It's not the same as the Sternritter.

And you're derailing. If you want to talk about it, do it later or on the discussion thread. This is not the thread for it.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Ichigo put a scratch on Yammy. Ichigo couldn't touch R1 Ulq even when the guy stayed still took a hit Kenpachi style. Yammy being the strongest Espada is a joke. Gin gets beat by Ulq via feats.

Ulquiorra outright admitted that he is not the strongest Espada, and all the Espada ranked above him is stronger than him. Yammy further backs this up by calling Ulquiorra a trash. Ulquiorra get wanked and overestimated a lot all because he has a second release and came close to killing Ichigo. Ichigo is literally one of the weakest characters in Bleach before the timeskip due to lack of hax and versatility, I mean how many times did he hurt himself by just trying to fight stronger opponents, without those opponents fighting back??? I mean just from trying to cut Kenpachi who was standing still, he caused his own hands to bleed!

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Ulquiorra get wanked and overestimated all because he has a second release and came close to killing Ichigo. Ichigo is literally one of the weakest characters in Bleach before the timeskip due to lack of hax and versatility, I mean how many times did he hurt himself by just trying to fight stronger opponents, without those opponents fighting back???

At this point you just seem trolling and have been severely derailing this thread. Please stop and let the thread continue as it was supposed to.

 

[HST_Master]

@JohnCena And you're derailing. If you want to talk about it, do it later or on the discussion thread. This is not the thread for it.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Ulquiorra get wanked and overestimated all because he has a second release and came close to killing Ichigo. Ichigo is literally one of the weakest characters in Bleach before the timeskip due to lack of hax and versatility, I mean how many times did he hurt himself by just trying to fight stronger opponents, without those opponents fighting back???

At this point you just seem trolling and have been severely derailing this thread. Please stop and let the thread continue as it was supposed to.

Answer me one question before you call me a troll, what can Ichigo do without his zanpakuto?

 

[HST_Master]

Okay. He's definitely trolling at this point

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Okay. He's definitely trolling at this point

Proved my point.

 

[HST_Master]

A. You edited your post to say these things.

B. Saying "Ichigo can't do anything without his Zanpakutou" literally proves zero points on you not trolling. You've been constantly derailing since you entered the thread. Oh and btw several charcters are primarily melee, such as Yachiru, Kenpachi, Ikkaku, Tsukishima, Ginjo and more.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

A. You edited your post to say these things.
B. Saying "Ichigo can't do anything without his Zanpakutou" literally proves zero points on you not trolling. You've been constantly derailing since you entered the thread. Oh and btw several charcters are primarily melee, such as Yachiru, Kenpachi, Ikkaku, Tsukishima, Ginjo and more.

First answer my question, what can Ichigo do without his Zanpakuto? Has he shown defeating any major opponents without his Zanpakuto? If I recall correct, he wasn't taught any Hakuda nor Kido.

 

[HST_Master]

He learned how to fight bare handed from his father and repeatedly blocked strikes from opponents bare handed.

And for the last time you are derailing from the topic at hand.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

He learned how to fight bare handed from his father and repeatedly blocked strikes from opponents bare handed.
And for the last time you are derailing from the topic at hand.

That's not Hakuda. Any random thug from the street can easily do that, even I can.

I'm not derailing anything, just I'm proving my reason why Ichigo is one of the weakest characters in Bleach and how he lack haxs and versalility. An Ichigo without his Zanpakuto against any decent opponents = a dead Ichigo.

 

[HST_Master]

"That's not Hakuda"

His father is an ex captain.

And again, he has been shown to block attacks with his bare hands. Casually.

And yes, you are Derailing. Saying Ichigo can't do anything without his Zanpakutou has nothing to do on his scaling to Yhwach.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Ok...I see the way things are going. For better or for worst, I'm bowing out of this conversation once and for all. No hard feelings to anyone.

All i will say is @Shadow, you kinda missed my entire argument with Aizen, or at least a good portion of it. No hard feelings, brother.