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Possible Zamasu upgrade

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The fact that Zeno refers to "all of existence" as just that one timeline proves contrary to the claim that Zeno could destroy all timelines, and it has been rejected before.
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
The fact that Zeno refers to "all of existence" as just that one timeline proves contrary to the claim that Zeno could destroy all timelines, and it has been rejected before.
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Technically he said "the world" not "all existence"

Anyway, i'am neutral here, i'll wait with popcorn and see how far this go
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
The fact that Zeno refers to "all of existence" as just that one timeline proves contrary to the claim that Zeno could destroy all timelines, and it has been rejected before.
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That has nothing to do with what I said.

I'm just saying your first point is wrong.

I am neutral with your second point for Causality's reasons.
 
My first point still stands.

Zeno is also the ruler of all of existence.

Surely if this includes alternate timelines, then there wouldn't be any alternate Zenos, just that one. So yes, all of existence in this case = one timeline.
 
Zeno being the "King of All" as being the "King of everything, including all timelines" would potentially make him 2-C to 2-B, which has been rejected before, and the fact that there's a Zeno for every timeline supports that his power is centered around only the 12 universes to an extent.
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
My first point still stands.
Zeno is also the ruler of all of existence.

Surely if this includes alternate timelines, then there wouldn't be any alternate Zenos, just that one. So yes, all of existence in this case = one timeline.
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Your first point is true, but it is irrelevant for the reasons and logic that I have stated.

And that is pure headcanon.

Zen'o is stated to rule over the GoDs, Angels, and the multiverse.

The only time the words "all of existence" and Zen'o appeared in the same sentence was when Whis said Zen'o could destroy "all of existence".

There is not enough proof to fully say that canon Zeno is 2-B, I agree. But logic is faulty.
 
What is a major debate about Super is about the cosmology and i have heard about many things such as:

1] There is only one space-time for all the universes, hells and heavens and no for other divisions. Zen'o just erased the universe's with its only one space-time, which is Low 2-C.

2] There is a space-time between all the universes, so Zen'o just erased multiple universes and space-times, which is 2-C.

3] There is no space-time between universes but between heavens or hells, so Zen'o destroyed universes and space-times, which is 2-C.

Note 1: If the db universes, hells and heavens are divided by space-time then Infinite Zamasu would be 2-C for taking one timeline, leading to Zen'o being 2-B for his statement of destroying all of existence which includes the regular timeline and the alternatives ones for every possibility mentioned by Trunks.

Note 2: Destroying a universe with hypothetically having both universe sized hell and heaven, but there is no space-time dividing then is a 3-A feat if there was space-times dividing them then such feat would be 2-C.
 
@The Causality

Time Rings are made when timelines are created via time travel, not in general.

There are numerous statements in Dragon Ball about timelines being created by "the smallest of things". And stuff like that.

History is also stated to be endless and have infinite ever-growing possibilities that create new worlds. It's very high in the 2-B range.
 
The real cal howard said:
I mean, there's a single statement, which in itself can be taken as time travel schenanigans.
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There's a statement from Trunks in the manga. And I disagree with it being taken as time travel shenanigans.

IIRC, there are some statements from Pilaf in Super that say similar things.

And there are, like, an infinite number of statements in Xenoverse and Heroes.
 
Your first point is true, but it is irrelevant for the reasons and logic that I have stated.

And that is pure headcanon.

Zen'o is stated to rule over the GoDs, Angels, and the multiverse.

The only time the words "all of existence" and Zen'o appeared in the same sentence was when Whis said Zen'o could destroy "all of existence".

There is not enough proof to fully say that canon Zeno is 2-B, I agree. But logic is faulty.

Yes, each timeline is a multiverse with 12 universes.

2:16 All of existence go away.

Just the timeline.
 
They also contain sub timelines such as Hyperbolic Time Chambers ect. But only Zeno has enough solid proof to be 2-C. Additionally, Fusion Zamasu would still be inferior to Zeno even when he does merge with other timelines; true reason for Zeno's 2-C rating, but everyone else is just significantly above baseline Low 2-C.
 
I don't even get why people assume that the time rings we saw are the only time rings, it's more like they are the most recent ones, am i the only one who remember that the dimensions containing them was litteraly shockfull of at least a few thousands identical box ?

Also saying that the twelves universe share the same space time continuum is just silly, given that we know that a single universe in DB always contain at least 2 spaces time continuum despite heaven and the universe being way closer than any of the other universe.

Without forgetting that both the anime and the manga represent each universe as being entirely seperated from the rest and closed off, the manga even use the old map design, with each one being perfectly closed off from the others univers.

Also, at no point anyone travel to another universe with 'simple flying', even the angels use those weird cubes to go to another universe.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
They also contain sub timelines such as Hyperbolic Time Chambers ect. But only Zeno has enough solid proof to be 2-C. Additionally, Fusion Zamasu would still be inferior to Zeno even when he does merge with other timelines; true reason for Zeno's 2-C rating, but everyone else is just significantly above baseline Low 2-C.
Click to expand...
Hyperbolic Time Chamber is just an Earth-sized pocket dimension.
 
I know that, that's why Vegeta busting it in base form is unquantifiable. It's just pocket reality destruction feat. But in Zeno's case, busting everything all at once is 2-C. There's also Zamasu even if her merged with two or more timelines would still be erased by Zeno.
 
Why exactly? The Hyperbolic Time Chamber is a pocket dimension the size of Earth, destroying it alongside the Twelve Universes and the Timeline isn't any higher than Low 2-C.
 
Ultima Reality said:
Why exactly? The Hyperbolic Time Chamber is an pocket dimension the size of Earth, destroying it alongside the Twelve Universes isn't any higher than Low 2-C.
Click to expand...
That is assuming there is no space-time dividing each of the twelve universes, nor its heavens or hells. And that all the universes, including its hells and heavens to have only one space-time.
 
Ultima Reality said:
Why exactly? The Hyperbolic Time Chamber is a pocket dimension the size of Earth, destroying it alongside the Twelve Universes isn't any higher than Low 2-C.
Click to expand...
Because it has it's own space time continuum that pass independently from heaven and the universe.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I know that, that's why Vegeta busting it in base form is unquantifiable. It's just pocket reality destruction feat. But in Zeno's case, busting everything all at once is 2-C. There's also Zamasu even if her merged with two or more timelines would still be erased by Zeno.
Click to expand...
2-C Zamasu never appeared in the show.

It was an eventual scenario has Zeno not gotten in his way. Zeno is only shown to be able to destroy one timeline, so there's no guarantee that he would've been able to kill a 2-C Infinite Zamasu that took over two timelines.
 
Dragomer said:
Ultima Reality said:
Why exactly? The Hyperbolic Time Chamber is a pocket dimension the size of Earth, destroying it alongside the Twelve Universes isn't any higher than Low 2-C.
Click to expand...
Because it has it's own space time continuum that pass independently from heaven and the universe.
Click to expand...
This is irrelevant, Space-Time Destruction in a scale lesser than Universal isn't anything more than unquantifiable hax, so destroying the Hyperbolic Time Chamber alongside the Timeline isn't higher than Low 2-C, as I said
 
Ultima Reality said:
The Twelve Universes are physical constructs separated by measurable distances which can be traversed by regular flight, they blatantly aren't separated Space-Time Continuums contained within a larger structure, seeing as each Timeline has their own set of Universes coupled with their own Zen'o which is capable of destroying all of these Universes.

Parallel "Universes" which exist separated by physical distances within a bigger Cosmos rather than being different Space-Time Bubbles / Manifolds altogether are a thing in Physics. It is called a Quilted Multiverse.

Furthermore, I am also fairly sure that we don't use the Daizenshuu here, as far as I am aware they contradict many things about the setting, and actually state that the Universe and the Afterlifes are Infinite at one point.
Click to expand...
@Warren Valion Here.
 
Ultima Reality said:
Dragomer said:
Ultima Reality said:
Why exactly? The Hyperbolic Time Chamber is a pocket dimension the size of Earth, destroying it alongside the Twelve Universes isn't any higher than Low 2-C.
Click to expand...
Because it has it's own space time continuum that pass independently from heaven and the universe.
Click to expand...
This is irrelevant, Space-Time Destruction in a scale lesser than Universal isn't anything more than unquantifiable hax, so destroying the Hyperbolic Time Chamber alongside the Timeline isn't anything more than Low 2-C, as I said
Click to expand...
It isn't hax, it's litteraly raw power in every instance where it's affected, including Zen'o, we never saw a DB character affected the ROSAT with anything other than strenght..

Except that it isn't, adding another seperated space time continuum clearly make the jump from one to another.

Also even without the ROSAT, destroying the whole timeline would be full 2-C so i don't get what you're saying about how the timeline + Rosat = low 2-C
 
Of course there are strawmans being thrown around. Yes, Hyperbolic time chamber busting is only a 5-A feat; Earth sized but 10 G's gives it 100x GBE, combined with pocket reality destruction. But it still has a different timeline, and there could be others like that, So Zeno erasing a single "Multiverse" is still 2-C. Fusion Zamasu was also about to merge with other timelines before Zeno erased him and even evolved state would still be way weaker than Zeno. This further elaborates that Zeno is 2-C.

Also, Kepekley said that other universes do have Space-Time, it's just that there's no proof that GoD destroy those parts of either universe. Which further proves Zeno's 2-C status; but no one but him.
 
@Dragomer

Destroying two Universal Space-Time Continuums is 2-C, yes.

Now destroying a single Space-Time Continuum alongside an Earth-Sized Pocket Reality that has its own flow of Time is unquantifiable.
 
So they aren't separated Space-Times because the universes can be flown to?

I disagree with that immensely.

The only beings that are seen flying to different universes are Angels, who use their warp ability to fly, said ability is what allows them to cross over into different realms and even through time.

Anyone else traveling to different universes uses teleportation.

No other person in the series other than Angels, who have a special ability, are shown to be capable of flying to different universes through sheer speed alone.
 
Kepekley23 said:
Dragon Ball universes certainly have separate space-times. It's why Zen'o is 2-C to begin with.
Click to expand...
I'm aware, but the main topic of this thread is upgrading Infinite Zamasu to 2-C because Ryu implied that one universe is 2-C because Rosat + heavens and/or hells could be divided by space-times [it's not accepted that they are universe sized]. Also i disagree with downgrading the God's and Angels speeds.
 
Goku couldn't even teleport to Namek from the Kaioshin Realm; the assertion that the Angels, beings which have shown warp abilities, being able to fly to other universes means anything is just a complete no. We know that the universes are literally enclosed spaces.
 
Dark649 said:
Kepekley23 said:
Dragon Ball universes certainly have separate space-times. It's why Zen'o is 2-C to begin with.
Click to expand...
I'm aware, but the main topic of this thread is upgrading Infinite Zamasu to 2-C because Ryu implied that one universe is 2-C because Rosat + heavens and/or hells could be divided by space-times [it's not accepted that they are universe sized]. Also i disagree with downgrading the God's and Angels speeds.
Click to expand...
It's actualy not Ryu who started the thread, it was Mickey1940
 
One universe is Low 2-C; the distance between the Living World and the Other World is physically finite, they are just sealed away from each other by a magical barrier.
 
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