Possible slight upgrade for Yu-Gi-Oh?

[Gerdkinerf]

Earlier this month, Alakabamm did a revision of a calculation by Iwandesu on Naruto Forums (As seen here

Alakabamm's version of the calc

The third and final of his revised calculations, in which Blue Eyes White Dragon stops and reverses Zorc Necrophades solar eclipse, has a yield of 7.22333 joules or 1.72633843 yottatons of TNT equivalent (Planet level+).

It should be noted that this was individually done by a single BEWD (and seemingly rather casually at that as well, mind you, due to BEWD making no visible effort or strain upon itself to move the Moon). Blue Eyes Ultimate Dragon, by it's very nature of being a fusion of three BEWD, should logically be at least three times stronger, if not possibly even higher then this due to often being depicted as being considerably much larger in size then BEWD.

(7.22333 joules / 1.72633843 yottatons of TNT equivalent) * 3 = 2.166934 joules or 5.17901529 yottatons of TNT equivalent (Large Planet level).

Zorc and BEUD were depicted as stalemating each other in an energy beam clash (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy0zvZvSoRo seen here between 4:18 and 7:25), so Zorc should at least be equal to or greater than this yield. Slifer, Obelisk, Ra, and Exodia all managed to temporarily hold their own against Zorc and even slightly halt him at times before eventually losing, so they should be around this level too.

The maximum energy yield for Planet level and/or the bare minimum energy yield for Large Planet level, according to the [https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Attack_Potency) Attack Potency chart] , is 1.1334 joules or 2.70076482 yottatons of TNT equivalent.

Much earlier on in the series, Exodia and the Egyptian Gods were shown as easily one-shotting both BEWD and BEUD, but this was either likely retconned in favor of them all being rough equals or simply just inconsistencies between different writers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxw-f9ywORc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuvEKpmNLUQ

Either way, this should likely be an indicator that Exodia and the Egyptian Gods are at the very least equal to a single BEWD, if not likely stronger than one.

My proposed revised / upgraded tiers are therefore:

Blue Eyes White Dragon = At least Planet level+, likely Large Planet level

Blue Eyes Ultimate Dragon = Large Planet level (At least three times stronger than a single BEWD; Equal to, and stalemated, Zorc)

Zorc Necrophades = Large Planet level (At least three times stronger than a single BEWD; Equal to, and stalemated, BEUD)

Exodia the Forbidden One = At least Planet level+, likely Large Planet level

Egyptian Gods (Obelisk the Tormentor, Slifer the Sky Dragon, The Winged Dragon of Ra) = At least Planet level+, likely Large Planet level

The Creator God of Light, Horakhty = At least Large Planet level (Casually one-shotted Zorc)


If anyone disagrees with my proposal, feel free to try to and refute this. I'd love to hear some insight here in the case that I'm possibly way off the mark and if I'm missing something important here.

 

[Alakabamm]

Ah, I see what you are doing there with the scaling. However, the final result for both is still in planet level+ if just barely so we shouldn't go past that for any of the characters.

 

[Gerdkinerf]

Understandable line of thought.

Do you think that BEUD is likely least three times stronger than BEWD (Hence my Large Planet level / 5.17901529 yottaton Zorc and BEUD proposal) or do you think it's a baseless, faulty assumption? If it is, then would perhaps a "at least Planet level, possibly Planet level+" rating be best for BEWD, the Egyptian Gods, and Exodia?

 

[Alakabamm]

I don't think it's really all that faulty, considering that BEWD does typically get a healthy power boost when it fuses.

 

[Gerdkinerf]

I see then.

Is my upgrade proposal fine with you or no? I understand completely if it isn't, but if it by chance is, then I'd like it if you unlocked some of the Yu-Gi-Oh pages so that I could edit them.

 

[Alakabamm]

I can't unlock the YuGiOh pages, only admins and those with admin level access can.

We also would need more than my consensus to do that.

As it stands, I only agree with upgrading from small planet level to planet level+ for the high tiers and planet level for the ones previously at small planet level.

 

[Gerdkinerf]

Alright then, that sounds perfectly reasonable and I can wait for a consensus agreement.

"As it stands, I only agree with upgrading from small planet level to planet level+ for the high tiers and planet level for the ones previously at small planet level."

How come? If it's okay with you, I'd like to hear your thought process behind that logic.

 

[Alakabamm]

Because my calc is only at planet level+ for the top tiers, just barely at the cusp of large planet. We don't make tier jumps on VSBW as a practice.

Also, I would prefer to use the lesser feat to scale people weaker than Zorc (so the egyptian gods). It helps that the planet level (not planet level+) feat came from Zorc's fight with them.

 

[Gerdkinerf]

Okay then, I understand.

I take it that you're lowballing Zorc's power and scaling the weaker characters by going by his low-end zettaton level solar eclipses as opposed to his high-end yottaton level eclipses, then? I went with the yottaton eclipse because I figured that Zorc was holding back / not taking the fight seriously after (relatively) casually defeating the Egyptian Gods but then once BEWD came along and it easily reversed his eclipse and more closely matched his power, he took the fighting more seriously.

It should also be noted that Zorc brought back his solar eclipse and moved the moon at a similar speed to which BEWD reversed the eclipse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy0zvZvSoRo (Seen from 2:01 to 2:05). Given this, I think that he could likely cause a yottaton level eclipse by himself.

 

[Alakabamm]

Yes, that is what I am doing.

 

[Gerdkinerf]

Fair enough.

Would these ratings be better, in your opinion?

"At least Planet level, possibly Large Planet level" = Egyptian Gods, Exodia, BEWD

"At least Planet level+, possibly Large Planet level" = Zorc, BEUD, Horakhty

 

[Alakabamm]

for the first group. better to use "possibly planet level+"

 

[Gerdkinerf]

Alright, that's pretty reasonable, even if I (somewhat) disagree with it.

I just personally think it'd be better to scale Zorc and the others off of the 1.72633843 yottaton feat since that BEWD was reversing the eclipse pretty casually, Zorc stomped it and returned his eclipse at the same speed as BEWD's reversed eclipse, and the Egyptian Gods and Exodia have fought equally on par with and defeated both BEWD and BEUD (who's at least three times stronger than a base BEWD) and also fairly reasonably held their own against the (very likely to be, IMO at least) Large Planet level Zorc, which shows that should be decently close to him in power. Zorc's zettaton level feats were pretty casual and not likely an accurate represenative of his true power.

5.17901529 yottatons / 2.70076482 yottatons = 1.91761062 times gap in power and yet still enough room for a "likely / possibly Large Planet level" rating (Ignoring that BEUD and Zorc could easily be stronger than 5 yottatons)

5.1790159 yottatons / 1.72633843 yottatons = 3 times gap in power.

These gaps seem pretty accurate going by the on screen visuals, IMO. Even if we really low-balled Exodia, BEWD, and the Egyptian Gods power at only 800 zettatons - 1 yottaton, which is significantly lower than BEWD's reverse eclipse feat, they'd still be at Planet level+ (800 / 57.3 = 13.9616056 ; 1,000 / 57.3 = 17.452007).

Basically:

Zorc's true power = BEUD's power (At least 5.1790159 yottatons / Large Planet) >>> A single BEWD's, Exodia, or the Egyptian God's power (at least 1.72633843 yottatons / Planet+) > Zorc's casual power (49.7609943 - 245.219885 zettatons / Planet)

I'll go with whatever you think is best, though. I just hope you now know why I consider the Gods, Exodia, and BEWD at least Planet level+ and likely / possibly Large Planet level

 

[Alakabamm]

The halved figure for the BEWD vs Zorc clash is something like 2.6 Yottatons, which doesn't fall under our classification of Large Planet Level.

We generally don't allow scaling up, casual feat or not.

 

[Gerdkinerf]

While it's true that 2.6 yottatons isn't Large Planet level, the thing is that BEUD and Zorc'd power are both individually at 5.1790159 yottatons each. you don't need to halve them. So if anything, the yield for their clash should doubled, given that they're equally strong and didn't weaken, you don't need to halve their power, so halving the yield is a bit strange, IMO:

(2.166934 joules / 5.17901529 yottatons) * 2 = 4.333834 joules or 10.3580306 yottatons of TNT equivalent (Still Large Planet level)

 

[Alakabamm]

No. The clash of their powers times three is 5.179. You halve that to get their individual powers.

 

[SomebodyData]

No. The clash of their powers times three is 5.179. You halve that to get their individual powers.

I'm assuming you're basing that off of their atk points? Just saying thats likely counted as a game mechanic

 

[Alakabamm]

Nope. BEUD is literally a fusion of 3 BEWD. Also, BEUD has less than 9000 atk points (3x BEWD), if I recall correctly.

 

[Gerdkinerf]

Actually, a single BEWD's individual power is equivalent to 1.72633843 yottatons, not Zorc or BEUD. BEUD and Zorc are both at least three times stronger (hence the 5.1790159 yottaton yield) and both Zorc and BEUD stalemated each other as equals (Zorc = 5.1790159 yottatons by himself, BEUD = 5.1790159 yottatons by itself)

Since their beams are the same power, you double the yield for all of the beams together in the clash for 10.3580306 yottatons.

And while I'm aware that we don't scale up, I don't see why BEUD would be only as strong as a single BEWD given that it's made up of three of them combined together, or why Zorc would only be as strong as a single BEWD given that he easily defeated one individual and stalemated a creature over three times stronger than a single BEWD.

And I don't see it being a game mechanic given that Zorc was real and he was actually hurt and stalemated by Kaiba's monsters.

 

[SomebodyData]

Nope. BEUD is literally a fusion of 3 BEWD. Also, BEUD has less than 9000 atk points (3x BEWD), if I recall correctly.

That...doesn't define a multiplier or anything, unless you know that the fusion is a literal 3x BEUD multipiler, and in that case then the fusion wouldn't be necessary because the could just combine the blast (I likely to think its a tad stronger than just 3)

 

[Gerdkinerf]

Exactly, which is why I think that BEUD and Zorc are Large Planet level (5.1790159 yottatons) for being at least three times stronger than the Planet level+ BEWD (1.72633843 yottatons)

 

[SomebodyData]

uh wheres the calc?

 

[Alakabamm]

The BEWD clash was <0.9 yottatons for the two participants individually. I made the calc. I know what I am talking about.

 

[Alakabamm]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Alakabamm/Zorc_Solar_Eclipse_Revised_Calc

 

[Gerdkinerf]

I'm never said you didn't know what you're talking about, but like I said, you don't have to do any halving the yield for the clash.

BEWD's, BEUD's, and Zorc's energy beams are not weaker than they're eclipse feats, they're stronger because they're putting forth actual effort and energy into destruction rather than just simply casually moving something with they're light / darkness / presence.

Their attack powers are at least equal to, if not likely greater than their eclipse feats, so they probably wouldn't put less power into attacking each other so theres no real need to have the eclipse feat yields divided to get their attack powers.

 

[Alakabamm]

I don't get what you are trying to say. The moon moved because of the clash of energy itself. You have to divide it in two to get the yield per individual.

We don't scale upwards, once again. It doesn't matter if it's casual or actual effort or whatever. The top result per individual is planet level+.

 

[SomebodyData]

BEWD's, BEUD's, and Zorc's energy beams are not weaker than they're eclipse feats, they're stronger because they're putting forth actual effort and energy rather than just simply casually moving something with they're light / darkness / presence .

Pretty sure they also put actual effort and energy in moving the moon

 

[Gerdkinerf]

"I don't get what you are trying to say. The moon moved because of the clash of energy itself. You have to divide it in two to get the yield per individual."

No, it didn't, it moved by the Blue Eye's own individual power, not between it and Zorc. Zorc was bullrushed by BEWD and knocked him down and then fired an energy blast at Zorc who blocked it with his arm from hitting his face, where BEWD then reversed Zorc's eclipse. Zorc took no part in reversing the eclipse with BEWD. Likewise, his own eclipses were done under his own power, not under him and BEWD clashing.

"Pretty sure they also put actual effort and energy in moving the moo"

I know they did, but probably not as much as their energy beams. They didn't seem to strain themselves unlike in the actual battles.

 

[Gerdkinerf]

I guess we're probably just going to have to agree to disagree on this here and leave the Yu-Gi-Oh profile stats as they are.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Alakabamm seems to make sense. Which profiles need to be unlocked and adjusted?

 

[Alakabamm]

The Creator God of Light, The Winged Dragon of Ra, Obelisk the Tormentor, Exodia the Forbbiden One

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Will do.

 

[Antvasima]

I have fixed it.

 

[Gerdkinerf]

Blue Eyes White Dragon needs to be unlocked as well.

 

[Antvasima]

Alright.

 

[Gerdkinerf]

Who's going to do the edits and what tier adjustments have been decided by the consensus? I'm just trying to avoid upsetting anyone or being too hasty here is all.

 

[Antvasima]

I thought that Alakabamm seemed to make sense, so he can change the pages if he wishes to.

 

[Alakabamm]

OK fixed them

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks.

 

[Gerdkinerf]

Sorry if I'm being annoying, but Alakabamm forgot to upgrade Exodia's attack potency, he only upgraded Exodia's durability.

Would you be okay with unlocking the page so that I could fix that? I'd also like it if you unlocked the other Yu-Gi-Oh pages (Blue Eyes, Obelisk, Ra, Horakhty) so that I could add some categories and fix some spelling / grammar mistakes I noticed.