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Possible massive downgrade for most of the Dr. Seuss verse.

Cumberjung

Cumberjung

437
37
From what I can tell from the canon profiles of these characters we are using crossovers as well as well as the classic animations which I will use as my source. So basically The Cat in the Hat and The Grinch are roughly the same size same with The Grinch and The Whos in Whoville. The problem is we know from Horton Hears a Who that Whos are so small that their whole civilization can fit in a speck of dust as small as the head of a pin (see 1:44, 2:53, and 3:56) we also know these are the same Whos from Whoville (see 4:45) so from what I can tell The Grinch and The Cat in the Hat should be downgraded to 10-C. This goes for The Grinch (2000) and Max as well as we see in the opening that the whole story takes place within a single snowflake. The only profiles safe from this downgrade are The Once-Ler and The Grinch (2018). What do you guys think of this?
 
Isn't The Grinch (2000) the movie that takes place on a snowflake? I don't remember which Grinch it is, but if that's the case, then he should absolutely be 10-C.

I don't think The Cat should be affected though.
 
Yes I said in my original post that the snowflake thing is from The Grinch (2000) and original grinch is in a pinhead sized dust speck. Also as long as we are using the cross overs I see no reason that The Cat wouldn't be effected as (to my knowledge) we don't have anything else to scale his size to.
 
It might also be interesting to note that in the original Grinch Mt.crumpet is said to be 10,000 feet high so it might just be that The Grinch isn't small and Horton is flipping ginormous which I want more input on. (If we decide Horton is that huge I'll make a Calc on how huge exactly so we can make a profile).
 
Cumberjung said:
It might also be interesting to note that in the original Grinch Mt.crumpet is said to be 10,000 feet high so it might just be that The Grinch isn't small and Horton is flipping ginormous which I want more input on. (If we decide Horton is that huge I'll make a Calc on how huge exactly so we can make a profile).
Click to expand...
Well, that's definitely interesting
 
So yeah that blog is only useful if this thread concludes that canon Grinch is a normal sized person (Grinch (2000) should still be downgraded regardless) but I'm still going to need more people's thoughts on this downgrade as a whole.
 
I did link the blog in the word "it" two messages ago although it's admittedly small and easy to miss so I've linked it again here. As far as those two thank you for telling me I'll probably message them tomorrow as it's really late for me right now.
 
Here is what's being discussed at this point.


1: Sould The Grinch (2000) be downgraded for size?

2: Should The Grinch (canon) be downgraded for size?

3: If yes to #2 dose The Cat scale to size?

4: If no to #2 dose Horton scale to size?
 
I would disagree with the downgrade of both The Cat in The Hat and The Grinch. Even though the Whos in The Grinch share the same name as those for Horton Hears a Who, the style they are drawn in varies in both stories. Also Cat in the Hat is interacts with normal humans, and Grinch scales to the Cat. I personally feel like it is just a bit of inconsistency by Seuss, rather than Horton being huge or Cat and Grinch small. Both have interacted with humans (Horton in Horton lays an Egg and Cat in most of his stories). Heck it is possible sore of the characters in Cat in the Hat gets Grinch are humans but I could be wrong about that.
 
It's important to note that both towns are explicitly called Whoville and Dr. Seuss has done crossovers before. So it seems intended for them to be the same place (albeit dramatically different an animation) and while yes I can agree this is likely an inconsistency this sort of thing happens all the time in fiction and it's our job here to work around it rather then ignore it (especially since the relative small size of Whoville is a major plot point). As far as the human thing I'll have to look in to that.

Also do you have opinions on The Grinch (2000) or are you just working with the canon?
 
Again, It seems like just a inconsistency, unless Seuss has giant humans. That likely isn't the case. Horton is the size of a normal elephant. Grinch is the same size as the cat, who is the same size as an adult human.

I already said movie is fine to downgrade, though Game key is fine as is.
 
Sorry I was writing my comment before you said your thing about Movie Grinch and it took so long I ended up posting it after (curse my slow typing speeds). Also I can agree to keeping game grinch the same though I plan to contact the creator of the movie profiles for his opinion on all this specifically.

Also it's implied at the end of Horton Hears a Who at 24:35 that there are smaller specks of dust with smaller Whos inside so giant humans doesn't seem like such a stretch to me especially considering this is the Seuss verse and anything can seemingly happen.
 
The Grinch does appear in Horton Hears a Who, to further prove that they're the same place. Obviously, it could just be that the mountain measurement was just a "from our point of view" reference
 
The "Grinch" that appears in Horton Hears a Who seems more of a nod than the actual character, as the Grinch is never shown in any of his canon appearances to live among the Whos. And again, they both interact with normal humans.
 
Robot972 said:
Obviously, it could just be that the mountain measurement was just a "from our point of view" reference
Click to expand...
@Robot Yeah part of this discussion trying to figure out if that's the case or not.

@Geoff again Seuss is no stranger to crossovers and I've already said why the "no giant humans" argument is not the best one to make.
 
And considering it's directly and explicitly name dropped I don't see how it could be anything but a crossover.
 
First of all we have no proof that there is a size shift (that's what I'm currently trying to explain with everything else) the Whos are drawn the same in both works (I don't even know where you got the contrary from) both Whos use virtually the same noise making gadgets as far as what they interact with goes and a lack of future crossovers/references is hardly a reason to say it's not a crossover at all.
 
I said size shift as in scaling to humans, as both Horton and Cat in the Hat interact with them.

I looked it up again and they do look similar, sorry I was remembering wrong.

As in "future crossovers/references" I mean nothing that rectifies this, and the fact that Horton is treated as nothing more than a normal sized elephant that makes this upgrade/downgrade questionable.
 
1. Ok fair enough i see where you're coming from but I still think giant or tiny humans wouldn't be too strange given that it's implied Whos differ that much in size as is and also it's the works of Dr. Seuss that we're dealing with.

2. Yeah it's ok happens a lot to me too.

3. Yeah like I said before I agree the weird size scaling is likely an unintended consequence (hence the lack of rectification) but I believe it to be the most reasonable conclusion nonetheless (as all other conclusions make less sense in verse to me).
 
The books should be the primary canon over the movies; which are simply adaptations. And if the creator intends the Cat to be 6 feet tall, I guess the I'm leaning towards agreeing with HeadlessKramerGeoff here.
 
I highly disagree for several reasons I've already stated and as many inconsistencies there are there are also several consistencies such has the overall appearance of the whos using similar instruments and having a propensity to make noise living in a circular shaped town and generally being friendly and banding together in times of crisis.

Also I have no access to the books at the moment so forgive me on that one.
 
I own the books, but if you real want to check more you can look up readings and such on youtube.

When the popular view is it is just an inconsistency, I am pretty sure that is what this wiki will take it as.
 
Ok I'll get back to you in a hour or two after reviewing the books and all the other stuff some more.
 
There wasn't as much to unpack as I thought some more measurement inconsistencies (Horton's Field of clovers is said to be 100 miles wide) some consistencies in noise making devices and character design. There is a page or two in The Grinch's story where the Whos are holding hands on what appears to be a white spherical surface at first I got excited because I was like "there is is they are on top the dust speck just like the one page from Horton's story" but at second glance I think they're holding hands in a circle with a awkward perspective... I think it's kind of hard to tell.

So basically not much has changed and we're back to agree to disagree (which is annoying because that's how almost all of my review threads end up).
 
Continuing to look and for what it's worth in the Grinch Halloween cartoon the buildings and plant life in Whoville much more match those in Horton's story (it's actually ridiculously close now).
 
Game Grinch is not the same as the movie, so even if Movie Grinch and Max get downgraded, the game versions of both will still remain the same.
 
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