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Possible Marioverse Upgrade

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Paleomario66

Paleomario66

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Recently, Mario got a downgrade, and I feel it is too low. Mario now ranges from Low 7-B to High 4-C for being able to beat Bowser. However, in Bowser's profile it was noted he could be higher for narrowly surviving the destruction of the Universe in Super Mario Galaxy. Tbh, it shouldn't be an outlier, since Mario has survived similar things, such as a black hole in Super Mario Galaxy 2, which destroyed World 6. World 6 is made up of multiple galaxies. The black hole would be Multi-Galaxy level for that reason. Mario also have feats putting him higher, such as defeating Grand Star Bowser, Culex, and Dreamy Bowser. Dreamy Bowser and Culex put him at High Universe level-Multi-Universe level (note: Mario had help in defeating Culex and Dreamy Bowser, so he'd get a portion of the credit). I don't know if he would get a general upgrade, or a variable tier from Low 7-C to 2-C. Either way, these shouldn't be outliers since there are a good amount of feats, and they are not hyperboles like Hulk's High 3-A feats. Also, all of the Mario cast in Mario Party 6 can survive a black hole, which could make them Solar System level. I mean, before the recent change, Bowser was listed at 5-A at one point due to Mario Party 9, so using feats from the Mario Party series should not be an issue. Also, Yoshi survived the black holes in both Mario Party 6, and also Super Mario Galaxy 2 (Yoshi and Peach should have durability at possibly Multi-Galaxy level).
 
honestly, while I do agree with Mario being multi-galaxy due to constant ability to fight high-end enemies like you have mentioned especially since Mario was originally placed at that tier, if everyone else just complains and continues to want down-grading the marioverse for whichever reason or misunderstanding.

usually by calling outlier on most of his high-end feats like facing grand star-powered bowser 3 times fighting culex,and dreamy bowser or about the time in which certain events occur even though the timeline of Mario games follows a simple line of whatever is released usually happens after the previous games unless if it's a Yoshi game so comparing say galaxy Mario to the challenges that happened in paper Mario ttyd is an unjust claim since it happens way before the galaxy games where Mario/Luigi gets more powerful.

but back to the main topic 2-C is a hard sell in many ways all I can say is the chances of Mario/Luigi going back to their original tier of 3-B may not happen due to multiple people arguing over what should be considered.

even though every Mario game is technically canon which should give any character who's been in Mario party games would have good feats due to the minigames. but Mario party isn't used often since I guess it would cause a bit of a confusion among others who think it is unjust.

peach however while in certain cases being shown to be able to combat bowser and assist Mario on his journey just doesn't have enough justification for being multi-galactic level other than being able to depower bowser and other magical hax she possesses. Yoshi, on the other hand, has already been upgraded to 4-A and much like peach doesn't have many feats to be multi-galactic.
 
I see what you are saying, but there are enough feats where I think they shouldn't be outliers, at least not for Mario, Luigi, and Bowser. Even if they are not placed at Low 2-C to possibly 2-C, a 3-B to 3-A would seem reasonable. I mean, Bowser survived the black hole in SMG2 as well as the collapse of the Universe in SMG. Also, an even higher rating could be justified since Mario also fought Culex and Dreamy Bowser. There are multiple feats here, so I don't think these should be outliers since there's not really much contradicting them as far as I know.
 
Actually, Mario never survive a black hole in the galaxy games. Even if he did, durability feats from black holes are considered unquantifiable. And despite it happening many times, the major reason he isn't scaled to the enemies he fough is because the gap is considered large compared to the usual characters he fought. Plus, other characters such as Kirby achieved similar feats as well via Magalor but he isn't scaled to him for similar reasons.
 
while I can see your point drb the thing about comparing Kirby is that he only fights magalor in that powerful state once or twice (counting the arena) while Mario fought grand powered bowser 3 separate times in smg2. and since galaxy 2 the other enemies he has fought other than bowser has been enemies like antasma whos fights have taken place in the dream world where he reigns supreme while dreamy Luigi powered Mario up. which in the same game they once again fight bowser.
 
Ok, black hole feats are unquantifiable, which I didn't know. However, I noticed that after each of the black holes, an explosion happened. The one in SMG2 destroyed all of World 6 (again, made up of multiple galaxies), and the one in SMG which created a new universe after the black hole destroyed the previous one. Plus, there's also the fact Mario fought Grand Star Bowser multiple times in SMG2, and also Culex from SMRPG, who is implied that he inherits the time of Mario's world as you noted. Also, Grand Star Bowser should be higher since base form Bowser would be Universe level to Universe level+ in durability (and likely AP for fighting Mario who can beat him regularly). The difference with Kirby is that Kirby only fought Magolor, while Mario has fought far more enemies.
 
Grand Star Bowser is already Universal level and like I said, characters from other franchises are facing a similar situation. I'm just using Kirby as an example. So despite fighting plenty of characters around this level, we can't scale Mario to them since it would be unfair for the other characters who acheived similar feats.
 
I think Grand Star Bowser was only listed as possibly Universe level. I know other characters are facing this situation, but Kirby wasn't the best example since he doesn't have as much higher feats as Mario does. Super Sonic would be better, but Mario still has a few more feats than either. I think many of these feats are called Outliers far too often, and they should only be called outliers if there is only one (or maybe two) higher end feat (like Superman defeating Dominus), and if it is so much higher than the character's other feats. Mario only meets one of those, he has multiple feats on a higher level than his others. Even if this isn't changed, he could be put as possibly 3-B to Low 2-C because of the feats I mentioned. 4-A or higher isn't enough, since I don't think Mario has any MSS feats.
 
Well, his speed is MFTL+ with a Launch Star, but in SMG2, Mario can fly to a galaxy WITHOUT assistance from a Launch Star, so his flight speed WITHOUT it should also be MFTL+. Reaction speed should be higher, since Mario can react to lasers, and Mario can also run across planets in 20 or so seconds (speed is still Massively Hypersonic).
 
He corrects himself midflight so he doesn't go headfirst into a planet, so that's MFTL+, but I'm not sure about the lack of warpstar.
 
I meant that Mario can fly off of Starship Mario to a galaxy without a Launch Star in SMG2. That's why his flight and reaction speed should be MFTl+.
 
Yes, but they are not right next to the wheel, which is where Mario is just before he takes off, so unless there is evidence of otherwise, I think it would make sense to say Mario can fly at MFTL+ speeds without a Launch Star. Even if he can't fly without a Launch Star, he should still have MFTL+ reactions without one since he can control himself at those amazing speeds.
 
Well, I agree with the post's question, even as far as I can remember the only Multi-Solar System feat in the series was this.

By the way, if he can move from Small Tow to Multi-Solar System without this being outlier, why would Multi-Galaxy be?

But wait, did Bowser survive the destruction of the universe in SMG1? As I recall, Rosalina protected everyone...
 
Kevyn Souza said:
Well, I agree with the post's question, because even as far as I can remember the only Multi-Solar System feat in the series was this. Btw, if he can move from Small Town to Multi-Solar System without this being outlier, why would Multi-Galaxy be?

But wait, did Bowser survive the destruction of the universe in SMG1? As I recall, Rosalina protected everyone.
Click to expand...
Actually, Rosalina and the Lumas could not have protected Bowser. He was on the Reactor as it started collapsing the universe, long before anyone came. So yes, Bowser likely did survive.
 
Paleomario66 said:
Actually, Rosalina and the Lumas could not have protected Bowser. He was on the Reactor as it started collapsing the universe, long before anyone came. So yes, Bowser likely did survive.
Click to expand...
But couldn't he have been "born again" when the universe was reset?
 
No, he could have not. The same source you used to say Mario and Peach were protected says Bowser did indeed survive.

Prima Guide

It says, "Even Bowser is there, shaken by his narrow escape from a horrible fate. This confirms that Bowser did survive the collapse and rebirth of the universe. His durability should be Universe level for that.
 
Hmmm, but could not he have been "born again" when the universe was reset?

No, he could have not. The same source you used to say Mario and Peach were protected says Bowser did indeed survive.

Prima Guide

It says, "Even Bowser is there, shaken by his narrow escape from a horrible fate." This confirms that Bowser did survive the collapse and rebirth of the universe. His durability should be Universe level for that.
 
It is too vague to put on that horribly outlier rating. "Escaping" isn't the same as "surviving". If Mario & Bowser have the same level of dura, Mario wouldn't need saving.
 
^^At the moment in question there would be no way for him to "leave" or "hide", he had nowhere to go at the time of destruction. I believe that in this case, the escape would be to survive, there was no other option if it wasn't protected.
 
He likely was protected or revived/reset by Rosalina like everyone else. Again, having Bowser at 3-A or, god forbids, Low 2-C is highly inconsistent and is the living definition of an outlier.
 
If Bowser had been born again with the universe reset, I see no reason for the guide to have described that he was "shaken by his narrow escape from a horrible fate".

Why would he be shaken if he had been born again?
 
I see no reasons to state that he "escaped" instead of just surviving. We can both play this game y'know.

You can still be shaken without having to directly tank something.
 
Again, unless Rosalina had protected him (which she didn't), there was no way he would escape, if not tank. I should also remind myself not to take every word with a single sense, "escaping" can mean several things and in this case meant "escaping from death" or something similar.

And what does it have to do with the game? Just go in the game and see the moment he sank into the lava, had no one there to protect him, he literally sank.

Of course he did, but I see no reason for him to feel shaken if he had been born again with the universe. The guide states that he is "shaken by his narrow escape from a horrible fate", not that he was reborn.
 
Mario's feats:

Low-End

  • Lifted and punted Larry's Castle (Small City level)
  • On par with Bowser, who defeated Dark Bowser whose hurricanc engulfed the whole Mushroom Kingdom (Country level)
Mid-End

  • Fought Smithy who is superior to Exor, who destroyed Star Hill, the entire world's power of wishes (Planet level)
  • Can harm Bowser who can survive a supernova (Large Star level)
High-End

  • Unknown Multi-Solar System level feat
  • Can harm Bowser, who survived the destruction of the Universe (Universe level)
  • Fought Bowser when powered up by the Grand Star (Galaxy level to Universe level+)
  • Fought Culex who inherits the time of Mario's world and holds the power of creation (Universe level+)
  • Can even fight Dreamy Bowser who had the power of many dreams, each of which are separate universes (at least Multi-Universe level, likely Multiverse level)
There is a good amount of Mid to High end feats, so Mario should be higher. Also, Kirby is getting an upgrade. Kirby not being scaled to Magolor was an example used for the reasoning in Mario's downgrade, yet Kirby is being upgraded, so Mario should too. There are 2 low end feats, 2 mid-end, and 4 high-end feats I know about. I heard Mario also has a MSS feat, but I'm not sure what it is. I heard its from Super Mario 64, but I don't know what it is and why it is said to be MSS.
 
Well for one why would Rosalina want to protect the person who started the universe's collapse in the first place? I for one see no reason about it.

And secondly, if Bowser didnt survive and was "reborn" he would have either been reincarnated as someone else, essentially meaning its not bowser who came back (which is ridiculous to suggest) or he would have been a baby/toddler given "reborn" which neither has been shown or suggested. So when they say "escape", it strongly implies Survive.
 
Culex was debunked and Mario cannot scale to any of Bowser's amped forms due to major consistency issues. Bowser likely did not fully tank the univere's destruction and I don't see how the Exor feat is planet. The MSS feat is from Antasma.
 
Oh, ok. Culex actually wasn't debunked. On the thread discussing Culex, there hasn't been a conclusion. Well, I'm not sure about Dreamy Bowser, and maybe Grand Star Bowser, but I'm sure Bowser did fully tank the universe's destruction. In order to not fully tank it, Bowser would either have to be protected (which he wasn't and couldn't have been) or he would have to escape the universe, which he shouldn't be able to. I mean, Mario has a decent amount of high end feats, so a variable tier could work, just extended. Varies; Low 7-B to 3-A, possibly Low 2-C could work.
 
Cluex's page was downgraded and the thread's had no recent activity. He was stated in one of the above scans to have narrowly escaped from the universe's destruction.
 
It says "narrowly escaped from a horrible fate". It doesn't say he escaped the destruction of the universe. He just avoided dying from it's destruction.
 
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