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Possible KH(The World) Upgrade?

This does seem legit, though. The heartless corrupted a 4-A Realm and Kingdom Hearts restored it. The real thing is, isn't "restoring" the world simply moving it from the "dark universe" to the "light universe" or something (I really don't remember how the two were called). Because if this is true, it wouldn't even be a feat.
 
@Axl

Well, I have only had the time to skim through the staff responses.
 
There are several things wrong with the arguments in favor of the upgrade

1 - "There are as many worlds as stars in the sky"... except that it's literal, since every star in the sky is another world, stated and shown more than once. But KH's calc uses the amount of worlds seen being restored, which is the safe lowball.

2 - The stars seen in Stitch's world... are just other worlds. He uses the Hyperdrive, but nothing says he went to Earth iirc. We even find him years later in Radiant Garden

3 - Pooh's world and the Symphony of sorcery's dimensions are literally a book and some songs, and this is what most likely happens

4 - Marluxia isn't the 3rd strongest member, that same WoG referenced before actually said that the 3rd are Xaldin and Lexaeus, tied for the spot

5 - The feat in Aqua's battle against Terranort is most likely her interacting with Terra's heart, as we see the real him and the guardian trying to stop Aqua from reaching him

6 - About Marluxia's dimensions, not sure if it's legit as it might be related to Castle Oblivion shenanigans, but if it is it might be an outlier.

7 - Now, I don't remember if the calc for KH considered the worlds as solar systems or not, but if it didn't, unless it wouldn't reach higher than Zeus' feat, it might be worth a look into it. Also KH didn't restore space, only the worlds.

7 - KH3 will come out in less than 2 months, and I'm planning on doing a general revision of the verse after that

@TP they're called Realm of Light and Realm of Darkness (which basically are existence and non-existence, but I'll get to this another time)
 
@RKGenki

Thank you for the evaluation.
 
RKGenki said:
There are several things wrong with the arguments in favor of the upgrade
1 - "There are as many worlds as stars in the sky"... except that it's literal, since every star in the sky is another world, stated and shown more than once. But KH's calc uses the amount of worlds seen being restored, which is the safe lowball.

2 - The stars seen in Stitch's world... are just other worlds. He uses the Hyperdrive, but nothing says he went to Earth iirc. We even find him years later in Radiant Garden

3 - Pooh's world and the Symphony of sorcery's dimensions are literally a book and some songs, and this is what most likely happens

4 - Marluxia isn't the 3rd strongest member, that same WoG referenced before actually said that the 3rd are Xaldin and Lexaeus, tied for the spot

5 - The feat in Aqua's battle against Terranort is most likely her interacting with Terra's heart, as we see the real him and the guardian trying to stop Aqua from reaching him

6 - About Marluxia's dimensions, not sure if it's legit as it might be related to Castle Oblivion shenanigans, but if it is it might be an outlier.

7 - Now, I don't remember if the calc for KH considered the worlds as solar systems or not, but if it didn't, unless it wouldn't reach higher than Zeus' feat, it might be worth a look into it. Also KH didn't restore space, only the worlds.

7 - KH3 will come out in less than 2 months, and I'm planning on doing a general revision of the verse after that

@TP they're called Realm of Light and Realm of Darkness (which basically are existence and non-existence, but I'll get to this another time)
Click to expand...
1. Are you referring to Seed's statement of the other worlds or of the starry sky I've shown in symphony of sorcery? If the latter, symphony of sorcery's music realm is an outright seperate dimension within the world, and even has a completely different art style from the usual look of stars in the world.

2. His summon outright shows him in Hawaii from the movie & he uses the ukelele, something he gets from Hawaii.

3. The symphony of sorcery is outright called a musical dimension, how is enteirng into it immersion exactly? Where is it stated or implied that the musical dimensions are fiction? It doesn't even match what the variations enlist:

  • Entering a story book and becoming part of the story described in it.
  • Jumping through a painting as if it was an open window and landing in whatever place that was drawn on it.
  • Entering a Television and inserting oneself into the plot of the currently airing show.
  • Entering a mirror and interacting with the reflection of objects.
4. Noted.

5. It happens right after Terranort finishes his combo however.

6. He outright forms it right after losing in his second form. I don't see why it would be an outlier either as both of the High 4-C feats in KH are ridicolously casual.

7. What implies it didn't restore the space when the space in worlds themselves were restored too?

I think you meant 8

8. As I said prior, this feat relates to KH 1 & 2, KH 3 is more likely then not going to discuss the true kingdom hearts.
 
TriforcePower1 said:
This does seem legit, though. The heartless corrupted a 4-A Realm and Kingdom Hearts restored it. The real thing is, isn't "restoring" the world simply moving it from the "dark universe" to the "light universe" or something (I really don't remember how the two were called). Because if this is true, it wouldn't even be a feat.
Click to expand...
I re-call the feat is treated as re-creating them and when it the Dark Realm as Aqua the only world scene in the dark realm is Sora's island.
 
We should take into account that Zeus feat was pretty lowballed since they only taked into account the Stars and not the Solar Systems.
 
I think it was originally seen as him moving around solar systems but it never went through because it was seen as an outlier I believe.
 
1 - I was referring to Seed

2 - We also see him in cutscenes in Radiant Garden both before and after obtaining the summon. Even then, I don't see the relevance of this

3 - Pooh's book is also called a world, but it's pretty self evident that it's an actual book, so it being called "musical realm" doesn't really matter much. Also those on the page are examples, everything else matches. Also this dialogue is pretty clear in saying it's actual music and not a pocket dimension

5 - I don't see what that would change

6 - Looking at it again they don't even behave like stars:

  • we see one of them in front of the camera before it zooms in, and most of them appear to be inside the sphere
  • they don't emit light constantly
  • some of them move around the place
7 - What do you mean by "space in world themselves"?

8 - I know, but instead of doing a revision before the game comes out it's better to wait for it as we can always get some retroactive knowledge

About the calc, adding the GBE of the planets wouldn't be too much greater as most of the mass comes from the star. It'd still be a bit higher, but nothing too relevant
 
2. Your premise was that we never see him on earth, that was your original claim, his summon shows he went to earth.

3. Jiminy's Journal is also a book yet has an entire data record of all the worlds full in size. And in the KH franchise data is outright stated to be able to re-create beings into the real world. Also nothing in your comment mentions how this music realm is fiction. Mickey also mentions he made it where no one could fight him in there, so that means it's an entire other dimension in there added on to the outright statement when you go to it asking you "enterr into the musical realm?"

5. It looks like an attack of terranort's or the guardian's not "going into terra's heart".

6. Which ones are shown to move around? I've seen other verses rated at 4-A for having stars that look the exact same, I don't see how that changes anything here. I also do not see a single one "in front of the camera" no idea where you got that.

7. Exactly what I said, the space within the worlds are even re-created.

8. Why wait when this upgrade applies to the Kingdom Hearts of 1 & 2 and not what KH 3 will most likely go under?
 
I think that RKGenki seems to make sense.
 
Antvasima said:
I think that RKGenki seems to make sense.
Click to expand...
He's made a lot of assumptions though, especaily assuming the music realm is immersion despite his own scan stating the music realm & spellican are directly influencing Mickey to stay in his situation and the main problem he had with marluxia's stars are also found in other verses rated 4-A.
 
It was eveen showed Mickey creating that dimension in the flashback cutscene from what im remember.
 
2 - even if he did, that doesn't mean anything anyway, as we have several words being Earth

3 - You said it yourself, it's data. That part, which is from a trailer, only says Ansem used Roxas' data. We don't know what's going on there. Also Mickey literally says it's actual music. He also tells you to enter the musical score and that in between clefs and notes there are enemies. It's far safer to say Sora enters a piece of music instead of going in a separate dimension, considering what Mickey says. I don't get your argument about fiction

5 - An attack of Terranort that only gives you a chance to deal him tons of damage? I can see it being Terra trying to react to Xehanort's control though

6 - Some of them behind Marluxia. I don't care about other verses, and 2 wrongs don't make a right. It definitely changes things as stars are supposed to emit light constantly. Also there

7 - There's nothing implying space was destroyed though, only the worlds were from what we know.

8 - As I said, retroactive knowledge. You yourself used part of a trailer as evidence in your same comment

9 - In that same video we see those light on a surface

I didn't make tons of assumptions, I'm gong directly by what is shown. Also Spellican influencing Mickey doesn't prove in any way that those pieces of music are actual dimensions.

And what does him needing the Keyblade proves, exactly?
 
2. None of the worlds shown being earth in the KH series thus far have been around early 2000s. Also how would stich have access of reaching one of those worlds when BBB was during the time when dimensional borders made it impossible to travel to other worlds? A thing that is heavily prominent in BBB as you need to use the lanes betwen in order to access these worlds.

3. They all go to the masion in hopes of saving Roxas. Data is seen as far more then how data is viewed in the real world in KH. Data-Sora is viewed as another verison of Sora. Data Sora is capable of gaining a heart and gaining the keyblade officially without the use of coding. How are both of these points relevant to "prove this is a ficitional setting"? You're just re-claiming it's music. I never denied it wasn't music that's not even the argument I was going by, I denied it being a fictional setting like Pooh's world is seen as. Spellican outright uses it to hide in, it's referred to as a realm, when Sora first enters the world he sees mickey manipulating a similar realm. I'd say it's far safer to assume this is a dimension within it, not a fictional setting.

5. The only way it gives you chance to deal damage back is through reaching the trinity limit, if we went by the logic of "the attack allows you to give him damage" then lots of Organization members and bosses attacks aren't actual "attacks" by that logic.

6. I see the space itself moving, not the stars. My point was never that "2 wrongs make a right" my point was your argument seems heavily double standards. But real world stars outright twinkle? (https://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/StarChild/questions/question26.html)That's the only one I see that's directly connected to the contraption all the rest are nowhere near it, seems more like a developer oversight then outright disproving the stars.

7. All the worlds are sent into non-existent world of the realm of darkness and as shown with Kairi when the island is reforming you start seeing everything settle back.

8. I used as an example of how data's viewed to KH in itself, I used other examples from re:coded, I can even use space paranoid if needed, the KH 3 example wasn't needed I pointed it out, this upgrade is covering KH 1 & 2's Kingdom Hearts.

9. That's just a reflection though? You even see it moving the exact same way as the top.

"It's a fictional setting because Mickey calls it music". So I can use a fictional setting now to control someone?

The way Sora uses immersion isn't needed with the keyblade? I thought that was evident within the scans.
 
Axl233 said:
We should take into account that Zeus feat was pretty lowballed since they only taked into account the Stars and not the Solar Systems.
Click to expand...
That's mostly because the GBE of the star is so ridiculously higher than everything else that it makes it irrelevant.

You could find the total GBE of a thousand earth-like planets and that wouldn't come close to the GBE of the Sun
 
2 - Same way other characters travel between worlds across the entire series. You know, like The Beast in KH1. The issue of needing routes has been a constant in the series after the events of x

3 - So it being only notes written on a paper sheet as said more than once doesn't disprove it being an actual dimension? Dunno what else to say, agree to disagree I guess. Shooting flashy light and moving water =/= manipulating the entire realm.

5 - You missed my point. I'm not saying it's not an attack because it allows you to deal damage to him, I'm saying it's not an attack because him letting you interact directly with Terra sure as hell isn't what Xehanort would want, hence the guardian trying to stop you and it being more reasonable to be Terra trying to react

6 - I don't think you know what "2 wrongs don't make a right" means if you bring up double standards. Twinkle =/= outright disappearing from view. We even see that star you claim it's a "developer oversight" forming right in front of our eyes.

7 - Which means the world is disappearing. Not space itself, and certainly not the space between it and other worlds.

8 - And data in KH is pretty clearly shown to be actual data. It having beings capable of developing a heart doesn't disprove them being data, neither makes it having places in it whit a starry sky a 4-A feat.

9 - A reflection is supposed to mirror what it reflects, but what's on the ground doesn't really match what's above it

Except that Spellican pretty clearly isn't fictional. It doesn't even come from that world in the first place. He just went into the music via immersion and hid there

When did I say that? I'm only saying that it doesn't mean much, expecially considering Pooh's book is either magical itself (iirc Merlin says so) or was already meddled with by someone else
 
"2. The Beast could do that because the borders were no longer there as explainned by Leon and the gang here. RK, BBB is when all the dimensional gates bordered the worlds hence why the keyblade wielders need to use the lanes between to even travel to these other worlds. https://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Universe_of_Kingdom_Hearts#Travel "According to Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep, the pathways between the worlds are known as the Lanes Between.

There are six known ways to travel through the worlds:

  • Piloting a Gummi Ship; as Gummi Ships are composed of fragments of shattered barriers, they are capable of passing through them.
  • The "Star Shard" that Mickey took from Yen Sid to travel across worlds during Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep. The downside to this method of travel is that if the user does not know how to control the shard, the destination and time of activation will be random.
  • Utilizing the Corridors of Darkness; this is a faster means of travel than the Gummi Ships, but those who use them are at great risk of being corrupted or destroyed by the darkness.
  • Teleportation, used by beings that possess powerful magic; Merli was able to teleport himself, Sora, Donald, and Goofy from Hollow Bastion/Radiant Garden to Disney Castle, as well as teleport Scrooge McDuck to Radiant Garden in Birth By Sleep. Maleficent is also capable of teleportation between worlds.
  • Keyblade Glider; Terra, Aqua, and Ventus can change into their armored form and turn their Keyblades into vehicles that can travel to other worlds by using the Lanes Between.
  • Time travel, such as used by Ansem, Seeker of Darkness, Young Xehanort, Yen Sid and Pete. However, Young Xehanort's method of time travel is trickier than the Yen Sid and Pete's; there needs to be a version of himself where he needs to go and he can only go backwards or forwards in time."
    Stich has none of these options when he does it, Beast does it when there's no existing dimensional borders.
3. Not when it's shown that within it is an entire dimension with stars and enemies + the spellican himself hiding in one of it. The realm is outright shown to be created by Mickey here and here.

5. Or Terra is simply helping you stop the attack and Xehanort didn't notice? The attack only happens(iirc) once in the fight.

6. I do know what 2 wrongs don't make a right means, my point was what you applied was heavy double standards, and nor do I believe that these stars are "wrong" as I've supplied. I say it's likely a developer oversight as it's the only star shown right next to his contraption, literally every other star is far away from it. Unless you somehow think one star being right next to it yet every other star being nowhere near the contraption makes sense.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/twinkle
"to shine with a flickering or sparkling light"

7. She's on a small part of sand here and it forms into an island and completely seperates from where Sora was originally.

8. How not? It goes to the fact that they're real since having a heart in KH requires you to be a real. Ansem the Wise even confirms in KH 2 he programmed hearts into his data worlds but couldn't control them. https://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Heart

9. Are you and me looking at the same scan? They're quite literally mirroring each other.

Immersion yet as shown in the other scan he pops up in the world while mickey was in the middle of his magic? You're making assumptions like I've said prior.

Both of these scenarios are magic-based, why would Sora need to use immersion differently?
 
Also Immersion implies he'd enter the imaginary location he sees there. Where when entering that music relam is starry sky shown? If he was really doing immerision he'd be moving around the notes themselves, not the dimensions shown there.
 
What are the conclusions here?
 
I haven't seen a reply yet from my refute to RK's comment, but mostly the argument right now is whether the musical dimension is immersion or not, along with if Marluxia's stars are real stars.
 
Maybe a "possibly 4-A" key via:

  • Essentially that there are at least countless worlds out ther3 ( KH Chi and the Games refer to them as countless worlds ) . The worlds are separate, meaning Stitch"s world likely contains numerous stars by itself since he is heavily implied as still within his world and there is no indication he had the ability to leave the world.
  • Before anyone says anything Maestro was able to do so since the walls between wirlds where desteoyed... Not such a case w/ Stitch.
  • Mickey created a realm with starry skies. A much weaker Sora and Riku than KH2 defeated Spellican who was the cause of restricting said Mickey, and omce he is defeated Mickey is free, implying Spellican > Wizard's Hat Mickey. Sora held his own against Spellican at several mokents, and KH2 threats & those who scale above that should be far stronger than him.
  • Remember Sora and Riku both were reset back to the power they had during KH1 , and they had that level of power until the End. Meaning, they are much weaker (until the end) than Ansem & Xemnas.
  • Marluxia created a realm w/ starry skies in his fight w/ Sora during Re-Chain .Pretty self-explanatory.
So... At least High 4-C , possibly 4-A for God Tiers... And High 4-C, possibly 4-A for Mid-Low Tiers like Darkside and Pete.
 
I don't think that an upgrade will be accepted without new better feats in the upcoming game, as we have talked a lot about this in the past.
 
We have changed our standards regarding this, but I am not sure if anybody properly wrote it down in one of our policy pages.
 
I am not sure about pocket dimensions, but just creating the stars themselves usually does not exceed High 4-C.
 
Well if our standards on pocket dimension creation feats hasn't changed, than what's the problem with these feats so far? Several worlds have legit stars in them that aren't other worlds, and Stitch's world not being a pocket dimension with stars was refuted already. The feats so far are creations of 4-A realms.
 
The problem is that some of the feats include creation of the space + the stars simultaneously... Not just the stars themselves ( Marluxia vs Sora in Re-Chain of Memories , Mickey in Dream Drop Distance , Terra + Aqua vs Xehanort in Birth By Sleep ... And one other I'm not remembering right now ).

If creating a space combined with a lot of stars was downgraded to merely High 4-C now , I have nothing else to say.
 
No,it wasnt downgraded.

If they downgraded they should have at least warned us before.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
I don't think it can be accepted either. The supposed 4-A feats are just High 4-C.
Click to expand...
Yeah,because lets ignore the fact that worlds the size of galaxies exist or that there are other 3 4A feats in the series,one of then was done by accident.
 
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