Possible Bayonetta downgrade

[Gargoyle_1]

So I was just checking to see something on the powers and abilities section for Bayonetta and I was a little confused on something.

Base Bayonetta 2 is listed as 5A, reason being she fought on par with one eyed Loptr. This doesn't make any sense to me.

Not only was Bayonetta put in a chokehold by Loptr, but Loptr blitzed Bayonetta and was mocking her for being merely human, and was completely unfazed. On top of this, Loptr defeated Bayonetta with no eyes in the past.

Now the summons such as Madama Butterfly are listed as 6B. Why would Bayonetta summon demons to help her when they are vastly weaker then her? She wouldn't need to use wicked weaves or make Madama destroy the meteor.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I'm going to have to recheck some things but both Bayonetta and Balder fought Loptr at different points in the story and damaged him.

By that logic she shouldn't have summons at all. None of her demons are anywhere near as powerful as her besides Sheba and Omne.

 

[Gargoyle_1]

They did damage no eye Loptr which makes sense as he is only 6B but there's nothing suggesting they damaged one eyed Loptr.

That's EXACTLY the point. Why bother summoning them with they're so far weaker then her, why summon Madama to destroy the meteor when she can do it so much easier?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Huh? No eyes Loptr isn't 6-B, Young Loptr is 6-B.

Why not? Hell Cloud Strife is 4-B while his strongest summons are only High 5-A

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Actually no, the reason she summons them is she needs to give the demons a constant supply of sacrifices to keep her contract with Madame Butterfly

 

[Gargoyle_1]

Ah I see the second part. But yes young Loptr defeated Bayonetta.

Wait those summons hurt Safer Sephiroth, how are they not? Whatever no derailing.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Young Loptr did not in any way defeat Bayonetta

Shrug Dunno

 

[Gargoyle_2]

Did you see the fight in chapter 15? At the end Loptr hits Bayonnetta with one of his hands which throws her back, he then proceeds to throw a building at her, laughs at her, and leaves. Even if it isn't implied that Bayonnetta took an L right there, that's at least a tie, which means either Loptr gets buffed to 5A and FTL+ or Bayonnetta goes down to 6B in base. Latter of which makes more sense.

EDIT: Okay I actually clicked on an old Bayonnetta video and I found a quote stated by Loptr after blasting her with a laser "Umbra Witch, is that the limit of your power? Did you ever awaken to your potential?" Implying both a loss and the fact that she's much weaker without the eye.

If this goes through, Rodin, Jeanne, Balder, Rosa, and of course base Bayonnetta will be downgraded

 

[Gargoyle_1]

Bump

 

[Gargoyle_1]

Bump

 

[Gargoyle_1]

Bump

 

[WeeklyBattles]

No, Loptr didnt win that fight, he knew he couldnt beat Bayonetta so he had to flee.

That quote is from Prophet (No Eyes Loptr) so no shit he's stronger, that's the version of Loptr that overpowered Balder.

 

[Gargoyle_1]

And what implies that he couldn't win? The part where Bayonetta hit him and he shrugged it off? The part where he hits her and she goes flying into a piece of a building? The part where he laughs at Bayonetta and says in a condescending manner "Now if you excuse me I must be off?" Clearly these are all signs of desperation.

Ah I see, thank you. So she never once fought on par with a 5A without the eye?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

If he could have killed her why didnt he? If he was capable of it why wouldnt he just take her out and then go off to kill Rosa? Its not like he needed her to be alive, Young Loptr wouldnt know that Bayonetta is the bearer of the Left Eye, so why not just kill her then and there? Its because he couldnt, so he escaped with a trademark cocky sendoff and went to kill Rosa.

No she fought and damaged Right Eye Loptr, though she ended up losing in the end.

 

[Gargoyle_1]

Okay 1. Where's your evidence she damaged him?

2. Okay Loptr couldn't kill Bayonetta, fine, but she couldn't kill Loptr and she got hurt by Loptr when she got slapped by one of his weaves and sent into a building. Loptr was able to hurt Bayonetta in his 6B form. Either young Loptr is 5A, or Bayonetta is 6B. Plus it makes no sense that base form is semi comparable to left eye Bayo.

 

[Gargoyle_2]

Bump

 

[Gargoyle_2]

Bump

 

[Gargoyle_2]

Bump

 

[Reppuzan]

I'm standing with Weekly on this one.

The fact that Bayonetta can so much as hold off Loptr-Aesir without the Left Eye is a testament to her power, as she was able to at least stagger Loptr and take him by a surprise multiple times during their battle. Sure, she's still weaker than him overall, but she's not so much weaker that she'd get annihilated. Her 5-A rating stays.

 

[Gargoyle_1]

But on the other hand, young Loptr is shown to be able to hurt Bayonetta, and did in the final cutscene, so maybe this fight was an outlier?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Gargoyle

You could also say the Young Loptr scene is an outlier. Bayonetta had already awakened the Left Eye during her fight with him, so the fact that a vastly weaker Loptr was able to challenge is more than a little strange.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that WeeklyBattles and Reppuzan seem to make sense.

 

[Gargoyle_2]

@Gargoyle
You could also say the Young Loptr scene is an outlier. Bayonetta had already awakened the Left Eye during her fight with him, so the fact that a vastly weaker Loptr was able to challenge is more than a little strange.

I think you misinterpreted, that's the fight I was mentioning.

Wait when did it awaken? I'm not sure if I remember

 

[Reppuzan]

@Gargoyle

By the end of the first game, Bayonetta had already awakened the Left Eye of the World. There's no indication that it was turned off, since she stomped literally everything in her path until Balder, Alraune (who had Jeanne's soul in it), and Loptr.

 

[Gargoyle_1]

Wait...Then why does she have a 5A rating if she was never in her base until Aesir? I believe it was Azathoth who made it clear she wasn't hurting him, surviving maybe but it's vague.

Also that's not too great of an indication, just like in one, until you find people who are part of the plot, everyone else is fodder.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Wait...Then why does she have a 5A rating if she was never in her base until Aesir? I believe it was Azathoth who made it clear she wasn't hurting him, surviving maybe but it's vague."

What are you talking about? Base? Azzy made it clear that she didn't scale to Aesir with both eyes who is 3-A.

"Also that's not too great of an indication, just like in one, until you find people who are part of the plot, everyone else is fodder."

Huh? She was literally stomping everyone she met until Balder, Alraune and Loptr.

I am not understanding you point here. I agree with what Weekly and Reppu said.

 

[Antvasima]

Perhaps it is time to close this thread, as the discussion is starting to seem redundant.