Portgas D. Ace and Teach additions

[Ryuga21]

I will try to be quick.

Ace: Forcefield Creation (Blocked a water attack from Jinbe; Blocked a punch from Smoker), Acrobatics (Easily jumped to the top of the mast of his ship), Supernatural Wilpower (Able to hard work for days while hungry without breaks or get tired. While normal humans gradually weaken to the point where they lose the strength to keep up with him; Unaffected by Whitebeard's Haoshoku Haki), Weapon Creation (Able to make constructs with his fire powers: Made two large spears and two giant dragons), Speed Boost (Self-explanatory).

Blackbeard: Resistance to Heat and Fire Manipulation (He was exquisitely calm surrounded by a sea of flames in front of Ace's Entei), Resistance to Ice Manipulation (Gura Gura no Mi vibrations cancels freezing - same reason as Whitebeard's).

 

[DaReaperMan]

I agree!

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Acrobatics (Easily jumped to the top of the mast of his ship)

Thought he already had this
https://****************/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_617f9817c8904/f0a1111849cf5944a10ca1a98204bdb8/081.jpg

Forcefield Creation (Blocked a water attack from Jinbe; Blocked a punch from Smoker)

Not sure


Agree with the rest

 

[Nierre]

I'm with Monkey. I agree with everything, not so sure about Forcefield though.

 

[azontr]

Forcefield creation seems a little sussy but since I dunno what officially counts as a forcefield here I'll just agree with everything lol.

 

[Kachon123]

Agree, though I'm iffy about Forcefield Creation

 

[Popted2]

i agree

 

[Ryuga21]

Well, I thought a wall of fire made to block physical attacks and projectiles could be a form of Barrier Creation. But really, there may be implications for this, as there have been before in other similar cases.

 

[Damage3245]

Neutral on the forcefield creation, but everything else seems fine.

 

[Theendzero13]

Yeah i am also iffy on forcefield creation, the rest i agree

 

[SamanPatou]

Acrobatics (Easily jumped to the top of the mast of his ship)

Jumping high alone doesn't qualify for acrobatics, as it's the sheer strength of your leg.
This rule has been an important point since the time the Acrobatics page was created.

Forcefield Creation (Blocked a water attack from Jinbe; Blocked a punch from Smoker)

In the first scan, it seems he's just countering water with a fire attack, which gets spread by the impact of water, instead of being an actual shield. In the second scan, he just blocked the punch with his own body.

Supernatural Wilpower (Able to hard work for days while hungry without breaks or get tired. While normal humans gradually weaken to the point where they lose the strength to keep up with him; Unaffected by Whitebeard's Haoshoku Haki)

The first is just superhuman stamina, and about the second, I need someone to remind me what level of willpower one must have to resist conqueror's haki, because iirc you just need "more than average" or generic "strong" willpower to resist it.

Blackbeard: Resistance to Heat and Fire Manipulation (He was exquisitely calm surrounded by a sea of flames in front of Ace's Entei),

Resistance to Fire surely isn't proven in this scan, since he can still be hurt by it and everything (iirc we even see him rolling on the ground to extinguish flames during the battle), but Heat may work, since he was surrounded.

Resistance to Ice Manipulation (Gura Gura no Mi vibrations cancels freezing - same reason as Whitebeard's).

I'm a bit iffy about this, because Devil Fruit users often have their own creative ways to employ the powers granted to them, and may not know about other applications. For this reason, I'd say it would be better to wait and see if Blackbeard ever shows to know how to break free from ice with vibrations, since it isn't a passive effective.




Weapon Creation and Speed Boost are fine.

 

[Rez]

Jumping high alone doesn't qualify for acrobatics, as it's the sheer strength of your leg.

Well monkey gave a better scan for acrobatics
https://****************/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_617f9817c8904/f0a1111849cf5944a10ca1a98204bdb8/081.jpg

Resistance to Fire surely isn't proven in this scan, since he can still be hurt by it and everything (iirc we even see him rolling on the ground to extinguish flames during the battle), but Heat may work, since he was surrounded.

So heat resistance is fine

I'm a bit iffy about this, because Devil Fruit users often have their own creative ways to employ the powers granted to them, and may not know about other applications. For this reason, I'd say it would be better to wait and see if Blackbeard ever shows to know how to break free from ice with vibrations, since it isn't a passive effective.




Weapon Creation and Speed Boost are fine.

It's an ability of the devil fruit not white beard himself so an possible resistance should be fine. Since BB can technically do it if he wishes to.

 

[SamanPatou]

Monkey's scan is good.

It's an ability of the devil fruit not white beard himself so an possible resistance should be fine. Since BB can technically do it if he wishes to.

I'd say it's better to put it as likely, but I see your point and it makes sense.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

about the second, I need someone to remind me what level of willpower one must have to resist conqueror's haki, because iirc you just need "more than average" or generic "strong" willpower to resist it.

Resisting someone like whitebeard’s conquerors haki is 100% supernatural willpower, the same old and sick whitebeard who is unaffected by a conquerors clash with shanks I think or who is unaffected by shanks passive conquerors haki. Whitebeard while sick, old and dying is able to fight normally when half his face is gone, two holes in his chest, multiple stab, gun, cannon wounds… didn’t even need to type that… could have just said whitebeard has supernatural willpower and especially resisting his conquerors haki should be a very impressive supernatural willpower feat…

now I don’t know what to say… I’m too tired

Resistance to Fire surely isn't proven in this scan,

He is standing on the fire like it’s normal ground… that’s resisting fire

since he can still be hurt by it and everything (iirc we even see him rolling on the ground to extinguish flames during the battle),

That’s why it’s resistance not immunity

 

[SamanPatou]

Resisting someone like whitebeard’s conquerors haki is 100% supernatural willpower, the same old and sick whitebeard who is unaffected by a conquerors clash with shanks I think or who is unaffected by shanks passive conquerors haki. Whitebeard while sick, old and dying is able to fight normally when half his face is gone, two holes in his chest, multiple stab, gun, cannon wounds… didn’t even need to type that… could have just said whitebeard has supernatural willpower and especially resisting his conquerors haki should be a very impressive supernatural willpower feat…

Has anyone else ever resisted an emperor's conqueror haki? We must look at what type of people (if any) have resisted his haki or that of comparable people.

He is standing on the fire like it’s normal ground… that’s resisting fire
That’s why it’s resistance not immunity

Not really, because he still gets hurt and burned by Ace's fire when it covers his body, which is the very same that is being spread on the ground.
Resistance to Fire and High Temperatures is already weird to separate, but I'd say in this case it's just Limited or Minor resistance to Heat, since he withstood flames around him, which where at most below his feet, and he remained there for a very short time, since they both shot their strongest attack moments after.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Has anyone else ever resisted an emperor's conqueror haki? We must look at what type of people (if any) have resisted his haki or that of comparable people.

In that scan only ace was able to... Not even ace's righthand man? Could withstand it

Not really, because he still gets hurt and burned by Ace's fire when it covers his body, which is the very same that is being spread on the ground.
Resistance to Fire and High Temperatures is already weird to separate, but I'd say in this case it's just Limited or Minor resistance to Heat, since he withstood flames around him, which where at most below his feet, and he remained there for a very short time, since they both shot their strongest attack moments after.

ones a potent fire thats attacking someone and the other is fire moving on it's own but sure

 

[Damage3245]

Yeah, Resistance to Fire doesn't look suitable.

 

[SamanPatou]

In that scan only ace was able to... Not even ace's righthand man? Could withstand it

I mean, in general, what other characters have resisted an emperor's conqueror haki?

ones a potent fire thats attacking someone and the other is fire moving on it's own but sure

Unless proven, fire always burns at the same temperature, regardless of how much force it hits you with.
Like, Ace's hiken has highe impact that random flames scattered around, but its temperature is the same, unless something proves that the stronger the impact, the hotter the flame is.

 

[KingTempest]

I mean, in general, what other characters have resisted an emperor's conqueror haki?

Everyone conscious at the Tea Party when Big Mom was going crazy (most of her captains)

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Unless proven, fire always burns at the same temperature, regardless of how much force it hits you with.
Like, Ace's hiken has highe impact that random flames scattered around, but its temperature is the same, unless something proves that the stronger the impact, the hotter the flame is.

Yes... But devil fruits can be trained... Enel can increase his volts and I swear I remember somewhere it saying ace can control the temperature of his flames

 

[SamanPatou]

Everyone conscious at the Tea Party when Big Mom was going crazy (most of her captains)

Do we consider them all as having supernatural willpower? In that case, doesn't it become a scaling chain between haki users, as emperors and comparable characters should obviously resist others' haki?
Like, it seems more of a combination of them having a strong haki and a willpower more powerful than normal, but without entering inhuman levels.

Yes... But devil fruits can be trained... Enel can increase his volts and I swear I remember somewhere it saying ace can control the temperature of his flames

I'm not saying he can't control the heat of his flames, but we have to prove Ace has actually lowered the heat of the fire that surrounded Teach.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I'm not saying he can't control the heat of his flames, but we have to prove Ace has actually lowered the heat of the fire that surrounded Teach.

But those flames were created via themselves kinda from the ENTEI!!

Also teach resisting it is proof of it be Lower temperature

 

[SamanPatou]

Yeah, but they still are the same flames, just less focused.

Not really, the flames weren't even burning his clothes, being next to a fire is different from having it covering your skin.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Then possibly Resistance to Heat and Fire Manipulation?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

the flames weren't even burning his clothes

Oda already has mentioned about this, that otherwise everyone will be n2ked

D: How is it that the spikes from Miss Doublefinger's "Toge Toge Fruit" can also grow from outside her body (her clothes, that is)?

O: Huh? Are you referring to the fact that the spikes would rip the clothes? If I did that, wouldn't this become an extraordinarily EROTIC MANGA?! And if I did that, then I'd have to draw it that way on book covers, so then everyone'd be super embarrassed when trying to buy it at the bookstore!! You want that?!

 

[azontr]

Why is Heat Resistance and Fire Resistance even separate....?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Why is Heat Resistance and Fire Resistance even separate....?

Heat can come from lightning, magma and more I think that's why

 

[SamanPatou]

Why is Heat Resistance and Fire Resistance even separate....?

Because Heat includes low Temperatures, and fire is already much hotter than what a human can normally withstand before suffering of side-effects.
And you often often have characters that have specific resistance to fire because of in-verse mechanics, but it may not apply to other sources of heat.ù
Also, what Monkey says.

Then possibly Resistance to Heat and Fire Manipulation?

I'd say resistance to Heat is fine even without a possibly, while I'd leave out resistance to fire entirely.

Oda already has mentioned about this, that otherwise everyone will be n2ked

I was referring to the fact that Teach didn't have fire covering his body.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I'd say resistance to Heat is fine even without a possibly, while I'd leave out resistance to fire entirely.

sure... But then how would you resist fire manipulation then?

 

[Axxtentacle]

By the way, I believe the verse itself actually scales people's willpowers, in case this wasn't talked about. Conqueror's Haki users vary in strength of their Conqueror's by the strength of their will. Like with the characters who use Conqueror's in their attacks like Kaido and now Luffy, the one with the stronger will overpowers the other. Whitebeard has specifically powerful Conqueror's, so Ace not being knocked out is actually impressive and definitely warrants SW.

 

[SamanPatou]

sure... But then how would you resist fire manipulation then?

Through statements, stuff like this or just by tanking fire directly, which is something Teach isn't doing in this case.

Resisting fire also means resisting high temperatures, but not the other way around.
Here, Teach is exposed to and in contact with the heat emanated by the fire around him, which is less hot than the fire itself, which isn't touching his body.

By the way, I believe the verse itself actually scales people's willpowers, in case this wasn't talked about. Conqueror's Haki users vary in strength of their Conqueror's by the strength of their will. Like with the characters who use Conqueror's in their attacks like Kaido and now Luffy, the one with the stronger will overpowers the other. Whitebeard has specifically powerful Conqueror's, so Ace not being knocked out is actually impressive and definitely warrants SW.

Wouldn't this notion affect the verse in almost its entirety? Like, many other characters would have SW.
@KingTempest @Damage3245 what do you think?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Wouldn't this notion affect the verse in almost its entirety? Like, many other characters would have SW.

What you mean? Only whitebeard has supernatural willpower which only ace has shown to resist

 

[SamanPatou]

I mean, wouldn't other people with strong haki be able to resist Whitebeard's, due to how it works?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

 

[KingTempest]

Do we consider them all as having supernatural willpower?

We should

In that case, doesn't it become a scaling chain between haki users, as emperors and comparable characters should obviously resist others' haki?
Like, it seems more of a combination of them having a strong haki and a willpower more powerful than normal, but without entering inhuman levels.

People can resist Hao without having Haki

 

[KingTempest]

I mean, wouldn't other people with strong haki be able to resist Whitebeard's, due to how it works?

The only type of haki that involves willpower is Hao, which is the one that KO's people.

People without Haki can resist Hao Haki

 

[SamanPatou]

Did Ace have haki in that period?

And if yes, wouldn't it mean that anyone who can resist an Emperor's Hao haki has Supernatural Willpower?

Or we don't scale Whitebeard's haki to that of other emperors?

 

[KingTempest]

Did Ace have haki in that period?

Yeah he had Haki

And if yes, wouldn't it mean that anyone who can resist an Emperor's Hao haki has Supernatural Willpower?

This is how it's supposed to be for any Haki user, not even just the Yonko

Or we don't scale Whitebeard's haki to that of other emperors?

To Shanks we do

 

[KingTempest]

Anyways, I'm going to be tackling the supernatural willpower stuff in a future Haki CRT

 

[Ryuga21]

@KingTempest what you think about the forcefield stuff everything else?