A pony in Anor Londo

[Peppersalt43]

The Slayer of Dragons : 1
A P P L E S : 7
Incon : 0

Low 6-B versions used (Which means first key Applejack)
Speed equalized
Fight takes place in Ornstein and Smough's boss room, 20 meters apart

After getting swapped out of the tournament, I decided to try and get Applejack to fight against a less haxed opponent. Don't worry, his most dangerous hax is Electricity and Immortality Type 2

 

[FinePoint]

Rainbow Dash: 5.48 Teratons of TNT
Applejack: ~5.48 Teratons of TNT (Comparable to Rainbow Dash)

Ornstein: >2.83 Teratons of TNT (Defeats numerous Everlasting Dragons)
Smough: ~>2.83 Teratons of TNT (Comparable to Ornstein)

Rainbow Dash and Applejack have a <~1.94x AP Advantage.
(Lol, did you choose people who scale to each other on purpose?)

 

[Peppersalt43]

(Lol, did you choose people who scale to each other on purpose?)

The multi fighter rule states that I'm supposed to use characters who fought together or can fight together canonically. It would make sense if they scale to each other

 

[Sir_Ovens]

If Rainbow Dash kills either one the other one becomes stronger. So it's really a battle of attrition and I think O&S have that in spades.

 

[Lightbuster30]

I feel like Dash speed stomps. When she accelerates from her regular speed and goes into full speed mode, she slows everything around her down. Speed equal only equalizes combat speed, it has nothing to do with her movement speed.

I'll also just say that Ornstein and Smough need a small bit of prep time to get stronger. One would have to walk or dash over to the other and either smash with a hammer or place their hand on his comrade for several seconds after said comrade has been killed. Having two characters hounding you makes this very difficult. Having two characters hounding you while one of them can dash over while you're moving in slow motion to them makes this borderline impossible.

Can Ornstein and Smough even hurt them? My Little Pony's Low 6-B feat was completely tanked, and it's nearly twice as strong as Dark Souls' Low 6-B.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Speed equal only equalizes combat speed, it has nothing to do with her movement speed.

What? I thought it worked like this :

Basically speed equalized slows down the character's slowest speed to their opponent's slowest speed (For example, Peak Human with Hypersonic reactions against Athletic Human. The character's Reaction is still miles faster that their slowest speed, meaning they still blitz). Rainbow Dash's speed is entirely in the same tier so I assumed speed equalized would slow her down to everyone else's speed

This is based on the many Jotaro threads I've seen. The guy's summon has FTL combat speed and speed equalized did nothing to it because his slowest speed is Superhuman

 

[Lightbuster30]

What? I thought it worked like this :

Basically speed equalized slows down the character's slowest speed to their opponent's slowest speed (For example, Peak Human with Hypersonic reactions against Athletic Human. The character's Reaction is still miles faster that their slowest speed, meaning they still blitz).

The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc. ~ Versus Thread Rules

At worst it lowers the speed boost multiplier.

Rainbow Dash's speed is entirely in the same tier so I assumed speed equalized would slow her down to everyone else's speed

It is still in the same tier yes, but she can increase her flight speed from her normal speed. It doesn't tier jump, but it is fast enough that comparable characters move in slow motion when she uses it. So, at best, it's unquantifiabley higher into the same tier, but still fast enough to blitz comparable characters.

 

[Peppersalt43]

I'll also just say that Ornstein and Smough need a small bit of prep time to get stronger. One would have to walk or dash over to the other and either smash with a hammer or place their hand on his comrade for several seconds after said comrade has been killed. Having two characters hounding you makes this very difficult. Having two characters hounding you while one of them can dash over while you're moving in slow motion to them makes this borderline impossible.

The stat amp only happens mid-fight when their friend dies. It's only applicable when either of them are with each other and when one of them dies. However I can make the starting distance closer if needed (Though I don't know if this'll do much since the slowest character is already Subsonic)

Can Ornstein and Smough even hurt them? My Little Pony's Low 6-B feat was completely tanked, and it's nearly twice as strong as Dark Souls' Low 6-B.

They upscale from that feat? If needed, some of Ornstein's attacks are imbued with electricity. That can bypass durability, right?

 

[Lightbuster30]

The stat amp only happens mid-fight when their friend dies. It's only applicable when either of them are with each other and when one of them dies. However I can make the starting distance closer if needed (Though I don't know if this'll do much since the slowest character is already Subsonic)

They upscale from that feat? If needed, some of Ornstein's attacks are imbued with electricity. That can bypass durability, right?

I'm just saying the stat amp can be interrupted.

To what degree does it bypass durability? Also, that would only work in the case of Applejack. Rainbow Dash on the other hand tanked an entire roomful of jarred lightning exploding on her and only got her fur and feathers frazzled.

 

[Peppersalt43]

To what degree does it bypass durability? Also, that would only work in the case of Applejack. Rainbow Dash on the other hand tanked an entire roomful of jarred lightning exploding on her and only got her fur and feathers frazzled.

I should've know that would happen. Why doesn't she have resistance to Electricity Manip then?

I'm starting to consider just making this Applejack vs Smough

 

[Lightbuster30]

I should've know that would happen. Why doesn't she have resistance to Electricity Manip then?

I'm starting to consider just making this Applejack vs Smough

No one's bothered to add it. I don't have the energy or patience to make revision threads. I just hate doing them. Plus some stuff gets overlooked by accident.

Then Smough can't do anything to hurt her as she scales to the person who tanked the feat in the first place.

 

[Lightbuster30]

What's really needed is a versewide versus discussion thread. One where we could have an entire versus thread dedicated to gathering feats that got overlooked in the verse. If someone sees an ability, they can contact staff to give their opinions on the thread, and if accepted, can be added to the profile. Then the thread continues until yet another new feat is found, staff gets contacted, and the even newer ability gets added, with the process repeating ad infinitum. No need to close the thread and force a new one to be opened if you forgot about an ability you wanted staff to look at.

In fact, I think we used to have those back when there were more active fans of MLP on the wiki.

 

[Keeweed]

I was asked to comment here, though seems pointless now. Just want to confirm the ponies scale to face tanking their feat right? Because if they do then this is just a stomp.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Yes.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Yes.

If I used Ornstein instead? You did say that electricity will work on AJ

 

[Lightbuster30]

If I used Ornstein instead? You did say that electricity will work on AJ

Though contrary to what I said, I actually have my doubts about it given I don't know how true it is and to what extent durability is ignored.

Note​

In real life, electricity with high amplitudes can atrophy nerves (causing paralysis) and also interfere with the functions of organs such as the heart and brain, and would likely ignore the durability of characters made out materials with enough conductivity due to this fact. However, as electricity hardly ever acts this way in fiction, this doesn't apply to electrical attacks that don't have a stated amplitude or have demonstrated these powers.

I'm guessing in this case the electricity wouldn't bypass natural durability since it needs to demonstrate these powers or have a stated amplitude.

 

[Keeweed]

I feel like electricity should have the note changed. Fire and ice now are started to ignore durability after years of us saying they shouldn’t (which was extra dumb). Electricity should ignore durability.

 

[Peppersalt43]

I'm guessing in this case the electricity wouldn't bypass natural durability since it needs to demonstrate these powers or have a stated amplitude.

Damage types are a mechanic in Dark Souls. Essentially you need a specific resistance to a damage type to, well, resist it. For example, having defense against physical attacks does not protect you against electric and fire damage

That should be good enough for durability negation

 

[Keeweed]

I just want to add we don’t give characters durability for surviving electric attacks anymore because it isn’t a physical attack, but for some reason we treat it as if durability does block it in versus threads. Our standards on electricity are very dumb and likely heavily out of date taking the fire and ice revisions into account.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Damage types are a mechanic in Dark Souls. Essentially you need a specific resistance to a damage type to, well, resist it. For example, having defense against physical attacks does not protect you against electric and fire damage

All well and good except we still don't even know to what degree the damage is dealt. Applejack can just lasso and restrain via superior lifting strength anyways.

Or just dodge and beat the crap out of him. Really, Ornstein has very low wincons. He can't harm without electricity, he almost never uses it in fights even if the opponent shield turtles his normal hits, often only choosing to use it sparingly. When he does use it, it has a 3-4 second wind up, letting Applejack close the gap pretty quickly.

 

[Keeweed]

When has Ornstein’s lightning had a 4 second charge up. At worst I think his slowest one has a two second one but that’s when he goes for a melee attack. Every other time he goes for lighting he just points his spear at you and shoots it. And in lore he should do it way more often since lightning was practically his entire stick whenever he fought the dragons (plus whether or not he uses it a lot in game is entirely RNG he uses it a lot in my game, doesn’t mean he uses it a lot in other people’s games)

 

[Lightbuster30]

When has Ornstein’s lightning had a 4 second charge up.

I watched videos of him fighting and that's how long it took. Counted the seconds.

At worst I think his slowest one has a two second one but that’s when he goes for a melee attack.

Applejack can hit way harder and has the ls advantage though, so melee dodging shouldn't be too hard.

Every other time he goes for lighting he just points his spear at you and shoots it. And in lore he should do it way more often since lightning was practically his entire stick whenever he fought the dragons

Well, yeah, but Applejack's not a dragon. Lightning is naturally more effective against them iirc, so it's natural he'd spam it more against the creatures weak to it. More likely It's going to take her tanking a few hits to realize he should start using electricity, but by then he'll have taken more than a few hits from someone well above his AP. Remember that she has an "at least" to go with her Low 6-B+, so the power gap is actually higher by a large, but unquantifiable amount.

Personally, I'd place money on Applejack going for a lasso to restrain and slam him into the floor, then hit him while he's dazed. Lifting strength advantage means he'll get knocked over again, making it much harder to recover. Either that or just try to restrain him outright with the lasso.

 

[Keeweed]

“I watched videos of him fighting and that's how long it took. Counted the seconds.”

I guess it has been a while since I’ve played but I know for a fact some of his attacks do shoot lightning way faster than that.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Assuming nobody is gonna rebuke that, I'll count that vote

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

bump

 

[Coolboy6]

While Applejack has the AP advantage, dragon slayer is more versatile, seems to be more skilled, and his type 2 immortality should allow him to be hard to get hurt. Plus he has higher range.

voting Dragonslayer

 

[Peppersalt43]

While Applejack has the AP advantage, dragon slayer is more versatile, seems to be more skilled, and his type 2 immortality should allow him to be hard to get hurt.

It's actually the dura advantage that hurts since AJ fully tanks attacks comparable to her AP. This forces Ornstein to only use his electric attacks which he needs to charge up

AJ's wincon is actually restraining via higher LS so Immortality Type 2 doesn't play a part. Also she can just knock him out

 

[Vizer04]

Applejack FRA

 

[FinePoint]

I think I'll vote the ponies for very superior durability and AP advantage.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Counted and thank you

 

[Mariogoods]

I vote to Rainbow Dash's friend FRA.

 

[Coolboy6]

It's actually the dura advantage that hurts since AJ fully tanks attacks comparable to her AP. This forces Ornstein to only use his electric attacks which he needs to charge up

AJ's wincon is actually restraining via higher LS so Immortality Type 2 doesn't play a part. Also she can just knock him out

How tf is AJ gonna restrain Ornstein if he’s more skilled and his attacks have higher range?

 

[Peppersalt43]

How tf is AJ gonna restrain Ornstein if he’s more skilled and his attacks have higher range?

Because he prefers to do melee attacks first and has no idea that he needs to always use his long-ranged attacks, which he needs to charge up? People with comparable speed to him can aim-dodge it and AJ certainly isn't gonna just stand still while a lightning bolt comes at her

Ornstein is a respectable boss. He doesn't keep his distance and spam projectiles, he gets close and hits his enemies with his spear. And even if he somehow can't be restrained, he can always be knocked out

 

[Coolboy6]

Because he prefers to do melee attacks first and has no idea that he needs to always use his long-ranged attacks, which he needs to charge up? People with comparable speed to him can aim-dodge it and AJ certainly isn't gonna just stand still while a lightning bolt comes at her

Ornstein is a respectable boss. He doesn't keep his distance and spam projectiles, he gets close and hits his enemies with his spear. And even if he somehow can't be restrained, he can always be knocked out

Ornstein is more skilled though and he has a spear

 

[Peppersalt43]

Ornstein is more skilled though and he has a spear

Let me explain to you something. Ornstein's greatest skillfeat is taking on armies of dragons, surviving, and beating them. And yet in his profile is a match between him and a dragon and he did not skill stomp. This is not Mori Jin, this is not a Warhammer character. Ornstein is not a broken skilled character

Skill doesn't mean much when his normal attacks do nothing and he needs to use an unreliable attack to actually hurt his opponent. And he won't know that he needs to immediately use it

 

[Coolboy6]

Ok then, Applejack FRA

 

[Keeweed]

Let me explain to you something. Ornstein's greatest skillfeat is taking on armies of dragons, surviving, and beating them. And yet in his profile is a match between him and a dragon and he did not skill stomp. This is not Mori Jin, this is not a Warhammer character. Ornstein is not a broken skilled character

Skill doesn't mean much when his normal attacks do nothing and he needs to use an unreliable attack to actually hurt his opponent. And he won't know that he needs to immediately use it

Wait him not being able to hurt opponents without his lightning was literally Everlasting dragons. They couldn’t be hurt until lightning was used to rip off their scales. Not only would lightning be one of the first things he’ll go for against someone with higher durability (since that’s what he goes for against dragons with the same advantage), I don’t see why it would be unreliable. I’ll rewatch his fight because I know he can shoot lightning faster than four seconds.

Edit: rewatched the fight he has two lightning attacks that come out in a second and he can just imbue his spear with the lightning.