Pokemon Me First (Move)

[LordRhys365]

My main question is, does Me First require the user to have priority in speed compared to the opponent?

I ask because I'm seeing some contradicting evidence.

In the vs wiki for Mewtwo's profile it says:

• Me First: Mewtwo uses the opponent's intended move before they can.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Mewtwo

For Lucario's vs wiki as well it says:

• Me First: Lucario takes the move the opponent was about to use, and uses it itself prior to the opponent's execution of it, while somehow making it stronger.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Lucario

In both cases, Me First essentially gets priority over the opponent's intended damaging move and allows the user to basically mimic and then preemptively use the opponent's move before they themselves can do so.

Whereas over at the Pokemon Database here's the definition given for Me First:

If the opponent is readying a direct attack, the user of Me First will try to copy it and attack with 50% more power. The move only works if the user is faster than the opponent or otherwise able to move first (for example a Quick Claw activating).

https://pokemondb.net/move/me-first

Finally Bulbapedia's definition for Me First:

If the target has not made its move this turn, but has selected a damage-dealing move, Me First copies that move preemptively and increases the power by 50%. It bypasses accuracy checks to always hit, unless the opponent is in the semi-invulnerable tur of a move such as Dig or Fly. Me First will fail if the target selected a non-damaging move, or if the target already executed its move this turn.

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Me_First_(move)

So my question is which is correct? Do the vs wiki statements need to be revised as they contradict with the other material sources?

I'd like to use this move for an rp community I'm in. But at the moment, I'm not 100% sure of it's mechanics as I'm seeing clear disagreement with the wiki's statements and the sources I've found.

 

[Drite77]

Me First needs to be used before the target uses its move. Example: someone will cast Fireball, but Mewtwo was able to use Me First before ot, so he will also use Fireball

 

[Drite77]

And there is no clash between the sources. Being faster is only game mechanics, since being faster means moving first and the bulbapedia bit is part of game mechanics

 

[LordRhys365]

Alright so it's just game mechanics at play here.

I hope it's okay for me to use an example in order to get a better perspective.

Say an MFTL+ character decided to use an Energy Blast at Mewtwo.

Mewtwo has Relativistic+ so is slower.

But when applying the move Me First, Mewtwo ends up using that Energy Blast attack before his opponent does?

 

[Drite77]

If that happens, Mewtwo will lose before he has time to think in using Me First

 

[LordRhys365]

• Me First: Mewtwo uses the opponent's intended move before they can.

So does this only apply when speeds are equalised or if Mewtwo is faster? Since you mentioned reaction time as being a factor here?

//Sorry if I'm asking a lot of questions.

 

[Drite77]

If Speed is Equal, yeah, he can use Me First fairly easy. No, it doesn't only apply to that, however, Mewtwo would need more effort to use Me First if the opponent is faster than he is

 

[LordRhys365]

Would his Precognition boost his chances of performing the move against a faster opponent? Or would it depend on how fast his opponent truly was and whether his Precog could keep up with it?

 

[Drite77]

Yeah, it can help him

 

[LordRhys365]

Got it. Thanks for your time and assisstance.

I think for Pokemon in general, I'll make you my go to person.

Once again, I appreciate the quick responses.

Is it alright for me to ask some more questions regarding Mewtwo or do I need to make another questions and answers post for other aspects of his abilities?

 

[Drite77]

I think that it is ok, but don't make new threads like you did with this one, only "bump" then

 

[LordRhys365]

I think that it is ok, but don't make new threads like you did with this one, only "bump" the

I'll continue here if that's alright?

Also, what does "bump" mean? I've actually seen that having been used once but I'm not too familiar with the terminology here.

 

[Drite77]

• Bump: If a thread lacks input from the community, you can type "Bump" (short for "Bring Up My Post") to try and give it more attention. It's probably a good idea to wait a reasonable amount of time in between bumping a thread, say a few days between each bump.

You can continue here, yes

 

[LordRhys365]

Alright, I have some things regarding Mewtwo's vs wiki that I hope you can clarify for me:

1) "Has been shown to work on robots [actual man made robots. Not just robotic Pokémon] as well),"

Does this imply Mewtwo can Mind Control even those without a brain but a functioning mind?

In fact, would anything that allows an entity to perceive information to their world and their surroundings count as having a Mind and therefore susceptible to Mewtwo's Mind Control?

2) Fear Manipulation (His Unnerve Ability scares the opponent to the point of crying for help and rendering them unable to eat. Has access to the Intimidator IQ skill, making his attackers get the Cringe status and not executing their move. His cold glowing eyes are stated in the Pokédex to induce fear),

Could this be used to prevent a faster opponent from executing their move in time just by making sheer eye contact? Also, what exactly is a Cringe Status? Does it count as Flinching? If so, would my earlier assumption be correct in it stops opponents right in their tracks?

Would this also qualify as a Status Effect Inducement? Because Emotional State Changing is listed under Mind Manipulation which is regarded as a Status Effect Inducement according to the vs wiki page.

3) Cloning (Of others, as he cloned Ash's Pokémon seemingly without the use of machinery in Puzzle League),

To what extent is this true? Obviously, opponent's that have Singularity as an ability cannot be copied or mimiced and in some cases are simply immune. However, does Mewtwo need to be able to comprehend the contents of his opponent in order to clone them? For example, could he clone a Beyond Dimensional Character? My guess is no he can't as he wouldn't be able to even interact with such beings properly to clone them. But I'd still like your input on this.

4) Temporary Invulnerability (Via a variation of Barrier, which creates a forcefield that prevents outside effects, damaging or otherwise, from affecting him),

In what sense is this Invulnerability Temporary? Does it last a set amount of turns; has a time limit on it or will it only last so long as Mewtwo actively wills it to be equipped such as for the duration of a fight?

Finally to what extent does this Invulnerability hold? Because it seems to almost negate anything and everything. "prevents outside effects, damaging or otherwise, from affecting him" Is it too much of an extrapolation to call it Absolute Invulnerability?

5) Mind Manipulation (Via typing),

What's meant by typing in this context? Could you elaborate on this please.

6) "Can erect a barrier that has a 50% chance of reversing the next thing done to Mewtwo, even if it kills him, and deals set damage back,"

Could Mewtwo in theory, use his Precognition/Time Manipulation to be aware whether his Barrier works in the future or not? Thus only deploy it when it does have a chance of reversing the next thing done to him? And hence, by doing this, make this chance 100% sure of working?

It also mentions reversing the next "thing" but this is very vague. Later it mentions "deals set damage back" so am I to assume it only reverses damage based attacks or anything in general? Such as a conceptual attack?

Finally, would this count as Attack Reflection? Because the wiki doesn't put the description under any ability...

If it is Attack Reflection, does it occur after Mewtwo has been affected himself? Otherwise, if it reverses attacks before he's affected then how can he end up dying if the Barrier holds?

7) In the vs wiki, it states for Lazer Focus: Mewtwo concentrates intensely ensuring that its next move hits.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Mewtwo

But according to Bulbapedia: Laser Focus causes the user's next move to result in a critical hit, unless that move's target is immune to critical hits (such as with Lucky Chant or Battle Armor).

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Laser_Focus_(move)

So which is it? Guaranteed of a critical hit or an attack that hits with 100% accuracy?

8) "Moves that have a natural advantage have a higher chance to crit"

"Can guarantee critical hits (Which ignore defense boosts),"

Why is the former relevant if the latter is applicable?

9) Does Me First only work on damage based moves? Or could Mewtwo for example, take a conceptual attack from his opponent and fire it back at 1.5 times the potency?

10)Finally is there a possible way you could give me a complete list of his IQ skills? Because they seem to be a common occurence behind a handful of Mewtwo's abilities.

Many thanks for reading this Drite and thank you in advance for your time.

 

[Drite77]

1) If they don't resist it, yes. However, i do think that said creature must have free will or is able to make decisions, example: a robot that was builded and has no emotion for me couldn't be mind controlled, although i can be wrong about that one

2) Yes. Cringe status is the Flinch status with other name, basically, and yeah, it stops opponents right on their tracks. Yes, it would count as that, but i think that Mewtwo already has that on his profile

3) I don't have any idea about this one and i am questioning if it is legit. But no, Mewtwo can't clone someone that is Higher Dimensional

4) It appeared on the first move and when facing Mew, that never goes out, however, i think that sheer AP might break the barrier

5) It could have a more in depth explanation, since by typing seems kinda weak. But the real one is that Mewtwo has shown to have Mind haxed people before, and he is considered superior to normal mons, wich include Drowzee who Mind hax peek in the millions, so Mewtwo is superior to that, but also resist those level of Mind haxing. BTW, his Y mega form has planetary Mind hax, but not resistance to Planetary mind hax

6) I think not, since it only Precogs what the enemy might do

7) The description is wrong, you are right, it amps the Crit chance

8) IIRC, that comes by an IQ Skill where if your move is super effective against someone, it has a higher Critical hit chance. However i don't really understance this question,could you elaborate more?

9) Only on Damage based attacks

10) Everything from the "C" Group is available to him

 

[LordRhys365]

Hey there Drite, seems Mewtwo's wiki page got an update but I don't seem to find his Temporary Invulnerability anywhere..Why was it taken off?

 

[Drite77]

Problaby because it is only used once and it kinda that i doesn't look like Invulnerability

 

[LordRhys365]

So abilities have to be used frequently in order to feature in the wiki? That's quite a surprise if I'm honest.

But as you mentioned it did appear on the movie so it's canon clearly? Used often or not, surely it should be accessible to him? Perhaps it's not Invulnerability but maybe something else? But even then I don't see a substitue ability. It felt like it just got taken out completely like it didn't exist in the first place.

Sorry if I sound petty, I know it's possible you probably didn't have a hand in this and you're perhaps trying to come up with a plausible explaination for it. But I'm still a bit uncertain atm.

 

[Drite77]

No no no no no no, i worded wrong. What i wanted to say is that it is not clear that it is Invulnerability due to not showing more, since ots only appeareance can just be a forcefield

 

[LordRhys365]

Understood. So I see for the Lazer Focus move the description hasn't changed yet. Should I bring that up in a revision post?

On a side note, is Mewtwo's Attack Reflection (or the ability in general) a passive one? As in does it automatically work without Mewtwo having to trigger it?

 

[Drite77]

His Attack Reflection is via Counter, so no

About Lazer Focus, you could, but asking in a wall of an admin is better since it is a minor edit

 

[LordRhys365]

Noted. Any moderators you'd recommend to contact regarding Lazer Focus?

 

[Drite77]

The Cal Howard, WeeklyBattles or Starter Pack

 

[PaChi2]

Me first is game mechanics.

 

[LordRhys365]

Hi Drite, just wondering why Ectoplasm Manipulation isn't listed for Mewtwo despite him being able to learn Shadow Ball?

I mean it's listed for Alakazam and yet not for Mewtwo. So have the mods missed this out?

 

[Drite77]

Maybe? I added that power into Alakazam's page when i was young and foolish, i would have to double check with other Knowledgeable members about it

 

[LordRhys365]

Alright thank you. Let me know if you find something out.

 

[LordRhys365]

Any update Drite?

 

[GyroNutz]

Shadow Ball is made up of shadows, so it's Darkness Manipulation. Ectoplasm Manipulation is generally for ghost type moves that don't fit into any other ability.

 

[LordRhys365]

Thank you for the response. In that case, should Alakazam have it's ability changed from Ectoplasm into Darkness Manipulation?

Because according to the wiki, it being able to learn Shadow Ball is the main reason for it wielding Ectoplasm Manip:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Alakazam

Also I'm not opposing your statement necessarily but for Ectoplasm Manip it says:

The power to manipulate Ectoplasm/Ghostly Energy. Variation of Energy Manipulation.

User can create, shape, and manipulate an energy unique to spirits/ghosts. Typically this comes in the form of beams or balls of energy that the user can charge and fire at enemies, and ignores the intangibility that is normally associated with ghosts or spirits. Usually, however, these attacks cannot harm living beings. It can also sometimes be used to create constructs and weapons, as well as forcefields, depending on the user. At higher levels, this can be used to ignore the conventional durability of ghosts, or even act as a form of Soul Manipulation.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Ectoplasm_Manipulation

Now Shadow Ball (whilst I do agree has Shadows so correlates with Darkness Manip) is a Ghost Type move that too in the shape of a Ball.

So my question then comes down to why Darkness Manip suits it more than Ectoplasm Manip?

 

[GyroNutz]

It can also learn Night Shade in Pokemon: Let's Go, so ectoplasm manipulation can probably stay. I'll add darkness manip if it's not there already.

 

[LordRhys365]

Thank you. Much appreciated.

However one more question I'd just like for you to clarify along with the previous one I asked in my earlier comment:

So if Night Shade (being a Ghost type move) is a valid reason for Alakazam to retain Ectoplasm Manipuation then why is Mewtwo learning Shadow Ball (again another Ghost Type move) counted towards Darkness Manip and not Ectoplasm Manip?

 

[GyroNutz]

Night Shade is an attack that uses an illusion created out of ghost 'energy', which is classified as ectoplasm manipulation. Shadow Ball is explicitly created through shadows, which we classify as darkness manipulation.

Hope that helps

 

[LordRhys365]

Ah alright. So Shadow Ball being made from Shadows outweighs the typing of the entire move itself being a Ghost Type move and that's why Darkness Manip is favoured over Ectoplasm Manip. Is that what you're getting at basically?

Just want to make sure in case I have to explain to others on my community.

 

[GyroNutz]

Shadows are considered ghostly in Pokemon, which is why they're ghost type. Like how one of the most iconic ghost types, Gengar, is based around shadows. Moves that don't use shadows, but rather ghost 'energy' should be considered ectoplasm manipulation instead.

 

[LordRhys365]

Understood. So not every Ghost type move necessarily means Ectoplasm Manip.

So I have 2 more questions to ask from this piece of information.

1)How does one determine whether a Ghost Type move is based around Shadows or has Ghostly Energy?

2)Mewtwo can learn Night Shade. So does that then give him Ectoplasm Manip?

Update: He learns Nightmare as well. Ectoplasm Manip or Dark Manip?

 

[GyroNutz]

1) It's usually made explicit if the ghost type move is based around shadows (e.g. shadow ball, shadow sneak, shadow claw), or if the move is based on something else (e.g. lick).

2) I'd say so.

 

[LordRhys365]

1) Noted. If it has "Shadow" in the name, lean towards Darkness Manip.

2)Brilliant, in that case if it's not too much trouble, could you add that into his vs wiki (with reasoning such as via Night Shade/Nightmare) please?

Again thank you so much for your time in explaining this.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Mewtwo

 

[GyroNutz]

No problem. Though I checked on bulbapedia, and can't seem to find where Mewtwo learns night shade.

 

[LordRhys365]

https://pokemondb.net/pokedex/mewtwo/moves/7

I got it from this site (do let me know if it's acceptable or not)

Under the Transfer Only moves.