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Pokemon Discussion Thread - Red & Blue arc

MorrisHatesYou said:
I know nothing about the generations pass generation 7

It's still absurd to think Pokemon like torkoal, shuckle, luvdisc and corsola should scale to dragonite.
Click to expand...
Corsola
Click to expand...

How do we break it to them?

Anyways, I generally agree, the non-evolving pokemon are so very weird to work with. And I personally think the 'pokemon stages aren't comparable' rule is a bit restrictive and most of it feels like a side effect of splitting the canons which has a lot of other little things I'm not sure I agree with but that's neither here nor there

Scaling them all the fully evolved doesn't feel right, but the lack of pokedex entries to meet the new standard AND give them each unique scaling seems impossible too...I'm not sure what the best answer with a lot of them is anymore...
 
XitSign said:
How do we break it to them?

Anyways, I generally agree, the non-evolving pokemon are so very weird to work with. And I personally think the 'pokemon stages aren't comparable' rule is a bit restrictive and most of it feels like a side effect of splitting the canons which has a lot of other little things I'm not sure I agree with but that's neither here nor there

Scaling them all the fully evolved doesn't feel right, but the lack of pokedex entries to meet the new standard AND give them each unique scaling seems impossible too...I'm not sure what the best answer with a lot of them is anymore...
Click to expand...
I think it's better if we don't give profiles to those Pokemon and if we do, we should give them "unknown" or maybe, "unknown, but inferior to x (insert a Pokemon who is 100% superior to said Pokemon)"

It's better that way than giving ratings that just flatly doesn't make sense
 
MorrisHatesYou said:
I think it's better if we don't give profiles to those Pokemon and if we do, we should give them "unknown" or maybe, "unknown, but inferior to x (insert a Pokemon who is 100% superior to said Pokemon)"

It's better that way than giving ratings that just flatly doesn't make sense
Click to expand...
It's a little too late for 'don't give them profiles', tons of them already do.

And much like us going back and forth on Unown, I really don't like the idea of Pokemon being 'Unknown' just because we don't know where in the scaling chain they are. I know the new standard is 'pokemon stages can't scale to each other', but...I'm having a hard time believing we can't give them an 'At least' based on either Baby pokemon who DO have feats, or maybe even weak first stages who have feats? It'd be...something?
 
XitSign said:
but...I'm having a hard time believing we can't give them an 'At least' based on either Baby pokemon who DO have feats, or maybe even weak first stages who have feats? It'd be...something?
Click to expand...
I 100% agree with this. It makes the most sense.
We can't give them "at least" from feats performed by baby Pokemon? Wth man
 
MorrisHatesYou said:
I 100% agree with this. It makes the most sense.
We can't give them "at least" from feats performed by baby Pokemon? Wth man
Click to expand...
I'm moreso...unsure if we can. It feels right, but I'm not sure how strict our new standards are for pokemon profiles, especially post-canon split and the pokemon evolution revision, are going to be on that topic.

...It's kinda why I'm moreso here just to talk lore and occasionally drop my findings, and let other people deal with the profiles and scaling. I'm not sure what I'd even be satisfied with that would also meet our current standards, and the task is far too intimidating with my limited free time...
 
XitSign said:
I'm moreso...unsure if we can. It feels right, but I'm not sure how strict our new standards are for pokemon profiles, especially post-canon split and the pokemon evolution revision, are going to be on that topic.

...It's kinda why I'm moreso here just to talk lore and occasionally drop my findings, and let other people deal with the profiles and scaling. I'm not sure what I'd even be satisfied with that would also meet our current standards, and the task is far too intimidating with my limited free time...
Click to expand...
It's still an improvement since the scaling just doesn't make sense imo
 
I can already tell this is going to be a huge can of worms. My suggestion is a scaling chain longer than the diameter of the Earth.
 
I say we use the latest area with wild versions of the single stage Pokémon then, if the you should have a fully evolved starter by that point they scale to fully evolved Pokémon
 
MorrisHatesYou said:
Aren't we getting the pokedex entries from them?
Click to expand...
The revision thread does say this:
  • Games
    • The Normal Timeline: This refers to all games that don't feature Mega Evolution. This would be RBY, GSC, RSE/FRLG, DPP/HGSS, BDSP, BW & BW2 and Pokemon Legends Arceus. PLA's status is likely to change as Hisuian mons have been spotted in Scarlet & Violet trailers.
    • The Mega Timeline: This refers to all games that feature Mega Evolution, namely X/Y, ORAS, SM & USUM. The main difference between them is that, should a pokemon have different feats for different games, they should have different keys. Not too important of a distinction but could be relevant.
      • Pokemon Sword and Shield and it's DLC does not feature Mega Evolution so it likely falls into the Normal Timeline.
    • Let's Go Pikachu & Eevee: Far too distinct from RBY and FRLG to fall into the same timeline as those games but doesn't fit the Mega Timeline's depictions of certain characters (namely Red), so these should have their own key.
    • Pokemon Go, Ranger Colosseum & XD: Due to their compatibility with the mainline games, PGO falls into the Mega Timeline while Colosseum, XD and Ranger fall into the Normal Timeline.
    • Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Portrays Pokemon societies that are defiant to every other canon. Profiles based off these should always get a page due to the stark differences between it and the mainline games.
    • Pokemon Conquest, Masters & Pokken Tournament: Conquest and Tournament characters should get their own wholly unique pages (if any), as they are stated outright to be non-canon crossovers. Masters is a curious case, as though the overall game shouldn't be canon, trainer characterizations and details ARE. Therefore, Pokemon Masters is semi-canon to the Mega Timeline.
    • Everything Else: Gets it's own page if applicable.
Click to expand...
 
I don’t think we actually accepted the blog the OP of extremely long revision thread just put it in the first post and we ignore it for the most part because trading.
 
MorrisHatesYou said:
I don't think a Pokemon having a feat in one timeline necessarily disproves the other feats in other timelines. They're still the same Pokemon.
Click to expand...
It a different canons with different feats. We can't assume that the same feat still took place in a completely different canon.
 
koopa3144 said:
It a different canons with different feats. We can't assume that the same feat still took place in a completely different canon.
Click to expand...
Same canon, different universes actually, trading shows Pokémon from different games are comparable to each other.
 
koopa3144 said:
It a different canons with different feats. We can't assume that the same feat still took place in a completely different canon.
Click to expand...
They're still the same Pokemon regardless if they are from different canons/timelines though, so unless there are actual contradictions in the feats and narrative or if they are from completely different universe I don't see much of an issue to integrate one to another.
 
I mean we scale Bisharp, now the second in a third stage tree after SV, to fully evolved mons. So then what do we do with Kingambit? Is it magically above other fully evolved mons?
 
Ok guys, listen to me.

Charizard should've been a Fire/Dragon type Pokemon since Charizard is designed as a dragon and belongs to dragon egg group, and of course with the ability levitate and should be able to learn flying type moves.

Charizard line is really terrible in the early game and is not even remotely as good as the Venusaur and Blastoise line. It gets ok after the 3rd gym but that doesn't really matter since you'd have better team options at that time, even then it doesn't even get good in the late games it just gets ok.
To compensate for all the disadvantages in the early game and the Pokemon not being that good even in the late game, a dragon typing instead of flying would be better as it'd make the Pokemon better and it fits it better.

LIKE THAT WOULD BE SO ******* COOL BRO
 
MorrisHatesYou said:
Charizard line is really terrible in the early game and is not even remotely as good as the Venusaur and Blastoise line. It gets ok after the 3rd gym but that doesn't really matter since you'd have better team options at that time, even then it doesn't even get good in the late games it just gets ok.
Click to expand...
Isn't Charizard like all over the Pokemon PvP meta?
 
It was only good when its Mega Evolutions existed. Other than that, it has next to no presence in doubles, and in singles it's only good in the lower tiers
 
MorrisHatesYou said:
Mega evolutions yeah, wdym by remake ?
Click to expand...
The remakes required a timeline split I think
MorrisHatesYou said:
Ok guys, listen to me.

Charizard should've been a Fire/Dragon type Pokemon since Charizard is designed as a dragon and belongs to dragon egg group, and of course with the ability levitate and should be able to learn flying type moves.

Charizard line is really terrible in the early game and is not even remotely as good as the Venusaur and Blastoise line. It gets ok after the 3rd gym but that doesn't really matter since you'd have better team options at that time, even then it doesn't even get good in the late games it just gets ok.
To compensate for all the disadvantages in the early game and the Pokemon not being that good even in the late game, a dragon typing instead of flying would be better as it'd make the Pokemon better and it fits it better.

LIKE THAT WOULD BE SO ******* COOL BRO
Click to expand...
Chairzard was good in gen 3 OU, the best in gen 4 NU, the best fire type in gen 5 NU. Game Freak should’ve never gave it wings.
 
koopa3144 said:
Isn't Charizard like all over the Pokemon PvP meta?
Click to expand...
Maybe, but I'm more focused on the actual ingame play through since most people don't actually battle with other guys
CloverDragon03 said:
It was only good when its Mega Evolutions existed. Other than that, it has next to no presence in doubles, and in singles it's only good in the lower tiers
Click to expand...
Y was very good, X was average
 
MorrisHatesYou said:
Y was very good, X was average
Click to expand...
Both were actually very good, but with different roles. Y was a nuke of a special sweeper (with Drought-boosted Fire Blast and one-turn Solar Beam), whereas X was a physical attacking monster that also lost some of its biggest weaknesses
 
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