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Pokemon Discussion Thread - Red & Blue arc

MorrisHatesYou said:
Yeah, the starter Pikachu and Eevee and only including the orginal 151 Pokemon was a great thing. I wish they included sevi islands and have red as the mc with the rival being blue, the dynamic was perfect.
Click to expand...
Red and Blue are in the game, actually. Leaf too. They have their manga starters.
 
Sans2345 said:
Doing a blog profile for Seviper, would be nice if i got some help.

vsbattles.fandom.com

Seviper

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
Smoke Manipulation (Able to use Haze, which creates a haze of black smoke that resets most kinds of Statistics Modifications.).
(In Pokemon gameplay, Haze only affects stat stage modifications; It doesn't affect, say, Focus Energy, nor stuff from Choice Scarf & the like. I'm also not sure if it affects boosts from Protosynthesis/Quark Drive, which are weird in their own ways. I don't remember if they use the stat boost animation either.)
Power Nullification (Gastro Acid negates some abilities.)

I'm not sure what Wring Out qualifies as (Its base power is higher the more HP the target has left.).
Venoshock (& maybe other moves?) might be Damage Boost, as it doubles in power if the target is already poisoned.

What tier do we scale single stage Pokemon like Seviper to?

Do we include TM, TR, Tutor, &/or Transfer moves?

Should Seviper's tongue be included for Natural Weaponry, since it learns Lick? Or is that too unnatural?
 
Imaginym said:
Smoke Manipulation (Able to use Haze, which creates a haze of black smoke that resets most kinds of Statistics Modifications.).
(In Pokemon gameplay, Haze only affects stat stage modifications; It doesn't affect, say, Focus Energy, nor stuff from Choice Scarf & the like. I'm also not sure if it affects boosts from Protosynthesis/Quark Drive, which are weird in their own ways. I don't remember if they use the stat boost animation either.)
Power Nullification (Gastro Acid negates some abilities.)

I'm not sure what Wring Out qualifies as (Its base power is higher the more HP the target has left.).
Venoshock (& maybe other moves?) might be Damage Boost, as it doubles in power if the target is already poisoned.

What tier do we scale single stage Pokemon like Seviper to?

Do we include TM, TR, Tutor, &/or Transfer moves?

Should Seviper's tongue be included for Natural Weaponry, since it learns Lick? Or is that too unnatural?
Click to expand...
Apparently according to Pokemon profile standards TM and Tutor moves are not included and TCG moves are highly subject to just game mechinics.
 
Sans2345 said:
Edited
Click to expand...
Should Haze be assumed to be Mist Manipulation rather than Smoke Manipulation, despite it being black, & a counterpart to the white mist move, Mist?
& I emphasize their colours because it's in the Japanese names: Haze (Japanese: くろいきり Black Mist)

Is there any way to visually tell apart if it's smoke or mist?
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Haze_(move)#Core_series_games

(Also, I presume you intend to add PN for Gastro Acid later?)
Sans2345 said:
Apparently according to Pokemon profile standards TM and Tutor moves are not included and TCG moves are highly subject to just game mechinics.
Click to expand...
Noted.
 
Imaginym said:
What tier do we scale single stage Pokemon like Seviper to?
Click to expand...
Well Seviper on its base stats has 100 ATK which makes it have a higher ATK stat compared to others like Lunatone, slightly higher than Solrock, and higher than Whiscash.
 
Sans2345 said:
Well Seviper on its base stats has 100 ATK which makes it have a higher ATK stat compared to others like Lunatone, slightly higher than Solrock, and higher than Whiscash.
Click to expand...
Do not try to scale Pokemon by base stats.
Just off the top of my head, Cranidos has more base ATK than Arceus, & Teddiursa has more base ATK than Tinkaton.
Compared to Medicham, Phanpy is tied in base ATK & has more base HP, despite Medicham having actual good stamina feats.
Dodrio & Linoone were tied in base speed until Gen 7, when Dodrio, which has worse speed by feats, became 10 points faster.
& Arcanine's speed feat, when calculated, should be higher than both of theirs, despite having a lower base speed.

Escavalier & Vikavolt cry in low base speed stats while flying around at high speeds.
Not to mention Pidgeot flying at Mach 2 while only base 91 Speed.


Base stats are an unreliable metric.
We generally use evolutionary stages instead, IIRC.
 
I mean, the New Pokémon Standards blog post linked in the verse page explicitly says that:
There is no 'average' nor 'universal' rating for first, second or third stage Pokemon. Assigning them a tier on the grounds of 'should be comparable to other first-stage pokemon' does not make for an acceptable profile.
  • Pokemon should get their durability, striking strength and AP from either the pokedex, scaling to other Pokemon (if that Pokemon themself was wild) or upscaling from a prior evolution with a good rating.
Click to expand...
 
Well according to Seviper's pokedex entries, it constantly fights with Zangoose, who is currently not on the wiki.
 
And i don't know if the Pokemon TCG or Pokemon Duel counts as Seviper in most cards of the TCG is a full-blown Psychic or darkness type card.
 
I still don't know how we tier Seviper, all it's pokedex entries are just about it's battles with Zangoose and even then, we can't go off of base stats in the games.
 
Sans2345 said:
I still don't know how we tier Seviper, all it's pokedex entries are just about it's battles with Zangoose and even then, we can't go off of base stats in the games.
Click to expand...
I'm still pretty sure Pokemon with no evos are scaled to fully evolved Pokemon.
 
koopa3144 said:
Technically Farfetch'd has an evo in the form of Sirfetch'd so idk how they would scale.
Click to expand...
I know nothing about the generations pass generation 7

It's still absurd to think Pokemon like torkoal, shuckle, luvdisc and corsola should scale to dragonite.
 
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