Pokemon Discussion Thread - Red & Blue arc

[CloverDragon03]

Wdym?

 

[Tyloxtus]

Yeah, the starter Pikachu and Eevee and only including the orginal 151 Pokemon was a great thing. I wish they included sevi islands and have red as the mc with the rival being blue, the dynamic was perfect.

Red and Blue are in the game, actually. Leaf too. They have their manga starters.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Red and Blue are in the game, actually. Leaf too. They have their manga starters.

I mean using Red as the MC and Blue being rival, the new mc and rival are Just so lame man

 

[Tyloxtus]

No they're not. The only thing that really changes is Chase smiles and Trace isn't a hater.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

No they're not. The only thing that really changes is Chase smiles and Trace isn't a hater.

Which in turn makes them lame and boring, along with their wacky designs.

 

[Tyloxtus]

L

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

What do y'all think about the theory that Cubones are Charmanders whose Mothers die when they are born?

 

[Imaginym]

What do y'all think about the theory that Cubones are Charmanders whose Mothers die when they are born?

It's interesting speculation. I've also read of similar speculation of connection between Kangaskhan & Cubone.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

It's sad man

 

[Imaginym]

It's sad man

It is a tragic concept, for a creature to not only be orphaned, but so sorrowful from it that it spends most of its life mourning & eventually pursuing vengeance.

 

[Sans2345]

Doing a blog profile for Seviper, would be nice if i got some help.

Seviper

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[koopa3144]

Doing a blog profile for Seviper, would be nice if i got some help.

Seviper

vsbattles.fandom.com

I'd recommend adding more ability explanations and using the bullet point format like this.

 

[Imaginym]

Doing a blog profile for Seviper, would be nice if i got some help.

Seviper

vsbattles.fandom.com

Smoke Manipulation (Able to use Haze, which creates a haze of black smoke that resets most kinds of Statistics Modifications.).
(In Pokemon gameplay, Haze only affects stat stage modifications; It doesn't affect, say, Focus Energy, nor stuff from Choice Scarf & the like. I'm also not sure if it affects boosts from Protosynthesis/Quark Drive, which are weird in their own ways. I don't remember if they use the stat boost animation either.)
Power Nullification (Gastro Acid negates some abilities.)

I'm not sure what Wring Out qualifies as (Its base power is higher the more HP the target has left.).
Venoshock (& maybe other moves?) might be Damage Boost, as it doubles in power if the target is already poisoned.

What tier do we scale single stage Pokemon like Seviper to?

Do we include TM, TR, Tutor, &/or Transfer moves?

Should Seviper's tongue be included for Natural Weaponry, since it learns Lick? Or is that too unnatural?

 

[Sans2345]

I'd recommend adding more ability explanations and using the bullet point format like this.

Edited

 

[Sans2345]

Smoke Manipulation (Able to use Haze, which creates a haze of black smoke that resets most kinds of Statistics Modifications.).
(In Pokemon gameplay, Haze only affects stat stage modifications; It doesn't affect, say, Focus Energy, nor stuff from Choice Scarf & the like. I'm also not sure if it affects boosts from Protosynthesis/Quark Drive, which are weird in their own ways. I don't remember if they use the stat boost animation either.)
Power Nullification (Gastro Acid negates some abilities.)

I'm not sure what Wring Out qualifies as (Its base power is higher the more HP the target has left.).
Venoshock (& maybe other moves?) might be Damage Boost, as it doubles in power if the target is already poisoned.

What tier do we scale single stage Pokemon like Seviper to?

Do we include TM, TR, Tutor, &/or Transfer moves?

Should Seviper's tongue be included for Natural Weaponry, since it learns Lick? Or is that too unnatural?

Apparently according to Pokemon profile standards TM and Tutor moves are not included and TCG moves are highly subject to just game mechinics.

 

[Imaginym]

Edited

Should Haze be assumed to be Mist Manipulation rather than Smoke Manipulation, despite it being black, & a counterpart to the white mist move, Mist?
& I emphasize their colours because it's in the Japanese names: Haze (Japanese: くろいきり Black Mist)

Is there any way to visually tell apart if it's smoke or mist?
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Haze_(move)#Core_series_games

(Also, I presume you intend to add PN for Gastro Acid later?)

Apparently according to Pokemon profile standards TM and Tutor moves are not included and TCG moves are highly subject to just game mechinics.

Noted.

 

[Sans2345]

It looks more like smoke instead of mist.

 

[Imaginym]

It looks more like smoke instead of mist.

Fair. Ice type does suggest it's closer to mist, though.
Maybe just Mist Manipulation, possibly/likely Smoke Manipulation or something like that??

 

[Sans2345]

What tier do we scale single stage Pokemon like Seviper to?

Well Seviper on its base stats has 100 ATK which makes it have a higher ATK stat compared to others like Lunatone, slightly higher than Solrock, and higher than Whiscash.

 

[Sans2345]

And apparently, Seviper has higher ATK compared to Weezing.

 

[Imaginym]

Well Seviper on its base stats has 100 ATK which makes it have a higher ATK stat compared to others like Lunatone, slightly higher than Solrock, and higher than Whiscash.

Do not try to scale Pokemon by base stats.
Just off the top of my head, Cranidos has more base ATK than Arceus, & Teddiursa has more base ATK than Tinkaton.
Compared to Medicham, Phanpy is tied in base ATK & has more base HP, despite Medicham having actual good stamina feats.
Dodrio & Linoone were tied in base speed until Gen 7, when Dodrio, which has worse speed by feats, became 10 points faster.
& Arcanine's speed feat, when calculated, should be higher than both of theirs, despite having a lower base speed.

Escavalier & Vikavolt cry in low base speed stats while flying around at high speeds.
Not to mention Pidgeot flying at Mach 2 while only base 91 Speed.


Base stats are an unreliable metric.
We generally use evolutionary stages instead, IIRC.

 

[koopa3144]

Seviper should scale to fully evolved Pokemon methinks.

 

[Imaginym]

Seviper should scale to fully evolved Pokemon methinks.

Is that how we've done single stage mons?

 

[koopa3144]

Is that how we've done single stage mons?

Iirc yeah.

 

[Sans2345]

So should Seviper be High 7-A?

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

I mean, the New Pokémon Standards blog post linked in the verse page explicitly says that:

There is no 'average' nor 'universal' rating for first, second or third stage Pokemon. Assigning them a tier on the grounds of 'should be comparable to other first-stage pokemon' does not make for an acceptable profile.

• Pokemon should get their durability, striking strength and AP from either the pokedex, scaling to other Pokemon (if that Pokemon themself was wild) or upscaling from a prior evolution with a good rating.

 

[Sans2345]

Well according to Seviper's pokedex entries, it constantly fights with Zangoose, who is currently not on the wiki.

 

[Sans2345]

And i don't know if the Pokemon TCG or Pokemon Duel counts as Seviper in most cards of the TCG is a full-blown Psychic or darkness type card.

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

And i don't know if the Pokemon TCG or Pokemon Duel counts as Seviper in most cards of the TCG is a full-blown Psychic or darkness type card.

Didn't this verse have a big CRT regarding the different canons a while ago?

 

[koopa3144]

Didn't this verse have a big CRT regarding the different canons a while ago?

Iirc the TCG and things like it weren't addressed in that CRT.

 

[Imaginym]

I mean, the New Pokémon Standards blog post linked in the verse page explicitly says that:

Well, that both complicates & simplifies things.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I mean, the New Pokémon Standards blog post linked in the verse page explicitly says that:

I don't think anyone actually agreed to this, it was just kinda put there and most decided to just collectively ignore it. Even some staff were like "no, this is ridiculous"

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Wassup

 

[Sans2345]

I still don't know how we tier Seviper, all it's pokedex entries are just about it's battles with Zangoose and even then, we can't go off of base stats in the games.

 

[koopa3144]

I still don't know how we tier Seviper, all it's pokedex entries are just about it's battles with Zangoose and even then, we can't go off of base stats in the games.

I'm still pretty sure Pokemon with no evos are scaled to fully evolved Pokemon.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

I'm still pretty sure Pokemon with no evos are scaled to fully evolved Pokemon.

Bro I can't imagine scaling farfetch'd to dragonite

 

[koopa3144]

Bro I can't imagine scaling farfetch'd to dragonite

Technically Farfetch'd has an evo in the form of Sirfetch'd so idk how they would scale.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Technically Farfetch'd has an evo in the form of Sirfetch'd so idk how they would scale.

I know nothing about the generations pass generation 7

It's still absurd to think Pokemon like torkoal, shuckle, luvdisc and corsola should scale to dragonite.

 

[Sans2345]

Seviper deserves a evolution and so does Zangoose imo.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Seviper deserves a evolution and so does Zangoose imo.

It's better to give them mega evolutions since they're already cool on their own but gen 6 ***** it up