• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Pokemon Discussion Thread - Red & Blue arc

Bobsican said:
It doesn't appear to have been done on purpose, but it's also about to end soon anyways, so...
Click to expand...
I mean, most things done "accidentally" don't appear to be done on purpose, yes.

But I want to know WHY the conclusion is it seems like an accident, other than being atypical or seemingly against the trend.

What of the circumstances or such make it seem accidental? What happened? What was said?
Was it just they announced a new format & stated all of the Pokemon were allowed or that none were restricted, & did nothing else regarding the situation so people assumed "accidentally"?
 
Has anyone heard of Game Freak's Project Bloom? Here's the Concept Art

F64l5-K9-WEAAJj-KQ.jpg


An excerpt from a website - (Link)
To release the game, the studio has partnered with Private Division, a publishing label under the Take-Two umbrella, which previously published titles ranging from The Outer Worlds to OlliOlli World. “
Click to expand...

An official statement - (Link)
We’re ready to help Game Freak unleash their potential and we’re honored to be the first Western publisher to work alongside this exceptionally talented and proven team to bring a bold new IP to market
Click to expand...

Personally I'm hyped. This is the experience and guidance Game Freak needs.

Someday we'd get an Immersive Open World Pokémon Game. Someday....

Screenshot-20230926-102714.jpg

Screenshot-20230926-102744.jpg

Screenshot-20230926-102840.jpg

Screenshot-20230926-102902.jpg

Screenshot-20230926-102923.jpg

Screenshot-20230926-102952.jpg

Screenshot-20230926-103015.jpg

Screenshot-20230926-103100.jpg

Link to Open World Pokémon Game Concept Art Gallery
 
FeebasExE said:
Has anyone heard of Game Freak's Project Bloom? Here's the Concept Art

F64l5-K9-WEAAJj-KQ.jpg


An excerpt from a website - (Link)


An official statement - (Link)


Personally I'm hyped. This is the experience and guidance Game Freak needs.

Someday we'd get an Immersive Open World Pokémon Game. Someday....
Click to expand...
I could swear I remember reading that GF wants to do non-Pokemon stuff & be known for it.
The concept art looks like non-Pokemon. Combined with the name, I'm reminded of the "brown & bloom" meme used about AAA Western developed games.
The fan-art looks nice. I wonder what GF will make of this opportunity.
 
Long-winded, crazy theorizing time.
Please do tell me what you think.
The theory:
Ogerpon, or an Ogerpon to be introduced later is fake. In that it was made by "Imagination".

Let's go over the context.
At Kitakami, the protagonist & Kieran visit several signboards, which tell a tale about Ogerpon & The Loyal 3.
pokemon-scarlet-pokemon-violet-the-teal-mask-sign.jpg

Kieran's grandfather reveals that the story these signboards tell are false, or at least, from a skewed perspective, & that the truth is practically the opposite:
Here's a link to the story's images compiled. (In retrospect, perhaps a YT link would've worked better. Also, our forum's "media" system for auto-previewing links is stupid & breaks the link unless I put it in other words. FIX THAT, PLEASE, FORUM.)

14fb0152dc6cf1de7c1a8c9697c1fa28130f24a8.png

What we're told is that The Loyal 3 did not protect the town, but rather, Ogerpon killed them as revenge for murdering its human friend & stealing 3 of its masks.

1 notable contradiction is the signboards saying:
"Before the Loyal Three fell, they wrested away three of the ogre’s masks, greatly weakening it."

But Kieran's grandpa outright says:
"These Pokémon sneaked into the cave in which the man and the ogre lived...
and tried to make off with the masks, which were carefully stored away.
The man happened to be there. He managed to hold on to one of the masks...
but he was not strong enough to protect them all. The Pokémon stole the other three masks."

So according to whoever made these signboards, those signboards being presumably close in age to that of the actual events, The Loyal 3 stole the masks while fighting the ogre in town, but according to Kieran's grandpa, they went to its cave of residence & robbed it.

How is them going to the cave to rob it known? The only human inhabitant was killed, & most humans dared not go near for fear of the ogre, & it had just been on a murderous rampage. Ain't no way there was a witness to relay this information.

To say nothing of how threateningly Ogerpon was portrayed as to begin with. It existed for all this time, & no one had any compassion for it or skepticism of the mysterious foreign Pokemon who perished fighting it?

But my major concern is why I posted those two images: Based on silhouette-Ogerpon's feet, the image depicts the man from behind, with a ponytail hanging over his back.
His left-side fist appears to be open-palmed, towards behind him, either in a fist or with his fingers curled up, as if to hold an undepicted object.

But on the signboard's right side, we see 3 figures like The Loyal 3, along with an ostensible Pokemon trainer. Throwing something, with a chain or orbs at the side, & a cap that, in 2D, I think looks vaguely looks like a Toxic Chain's end piece.
In Momotaro's story, Momotaro's companions are befriended through sharing food with them.
If the cap were actually a Toxic Chain-shaped headpiece, & the chain at the side not 1 of Poke Balls, but of "food", it could be "Dokutaro".

& the figure on the leftside has arms, legs, & spiky hair on the backside. It doesn't look like Ogerpon or the man. So unless it's some generic "ogre" figure made because the public didn't know what the ogre looked like, this suggests a different entity from the Ogerpon we know.


But how could this be possible? Let's consider what we know about things:

1. Long ago, The Loyal 3 took the ogre's masks, either in town to weaken it, or in its cave out of greed, & were killed by the ogre.
2. Ogerpon first shows up at The Festival of Masks. Strangely, it's stated that Kieran went up the mountain every night as a kid, & he's always loved & idealized the ogre. So just Kieran's desire to meet the ogre wasn't enough on its own. & indeed, Ogerpon shows up before the protagonist. I can't think of much other than a virtuous heart or such or the Tera Orb, I can't think of much. Although, Ogerpon does battle using Terastallized Masks with Tera Crystals in them, so it sensing that MIGHT be something to do with it.
3. The Dreaded Den, the cave that's apparently the residence of the ogre & the man, is described with "There are markings that suggest that someone used to live here a long, long time ago".
4. After The Teal Mask is obtained & left with Kieran's grandpa to be fixed -It was chipped, apparently?- Kieran takes it & demands the protagonist battle him if it's to be returned. After Kieran loses, he punches the Loyal 3's shrine, & a small puff of purple smoke is released. He runs away, & the shrine explodes with purple energy as The Loyal 3 resurrect.
5. Supposedly, at The Crystal Pool, which was infused with crystalline material from an unknown source long ago, 1 can meet those who've passed on. Carmine repeats this local myth, & calls her source a "weird rumor".
6. All the stuff about the Paradox Pokemon suggesting they were created from imaginings or fiction, not to mention the contradictions many Paradoxes present if they actually were time travelers. True or not, the point is it's another possibility where there's an Ogerpon that isn't the real "ogre".
7. The Loyal 3 gaining their forms from wishes, longing & desires according to mission text on the map.


Is it reasonable?

Well, for one, Kieran's grandpa claiming their ancestor made the masks for Ogerpon & its human friend, & Kieran affirming that mask-making is in their family suggests Ogerpon was around back then.
It'd also be strange if the grandfather lied, & the roles flipped a second time: Ogerpon is the villain, The Loyal 3 are the villains.... But they aren't mutually exclusive.

Villain or not, it's plausible that Ogerpon killed The Loyal 3, so it's only strange narratively. Perhaps the grandfather was also misinformed? Information lost to time? How do we know he knows any better than the signboards?

Kieran considered the ogre as cool, strong, & likely lonely for being an "outcast" & wanted to meet it. He wants to be cool like it, shunned but not caring, & sees itself in it in being an outcast.

Despite him seeking to meet it most of his life, Ogerpon shows up for the protagonist, not Kieran, for reasons unclear. The Tera Orb, maybe?

The present day Ogerpon, perhaps to facilitate fun/practical gameplay of the protagonist battling The Loyal 3 themselves, is dubious in those criteria. (Which could be to demonstrate Kieran's flawed view culiminating in Ogerpon seemingly choosing to be the protagonist's Pokemon rather than Kieran's.)

1. Reasonable or not, & although perhaps consistent with its backstory, Ogerpon avoids the people, going only near The Festival's outskirts, & hiding behind a tree across the bridge from Mossui Town. It also seemingly doesn't understand/respond when Carmine instructs it in perhaps overly simplistic speech.
So Ogerpon does seem to care about being shunned.
2. "Cool" is subjective, but our Ogerpon is clearly designed to be "cute" in its behaviour.
3. Strong? Only with its masks. When The Loyal 3 are confronting it outside The Dreaded Den, it's cowering. Admittedly, it has no masks at the time, but it doesn't help that it... doesn't help directly in their battles. Instead, it stays back & provides occasional stat buffs at best.
4. Lonely? Yes.

So this Ogerpon had the opportunities to go 3vs1 against The Loyal 3 maskless & was too scared, & even after getting masks back, it doesn't fight The Loyal 3 directly, even if that'd mean AT LEAST a 1vs1, if not a 2vs1 or 3vs1 in Ogerpon's favor, depending on how the protagonist & Carmine's Pokemon are involved.
It even has a lower BST than all 3 Loyal 3.

Perhaps it can only win uphill battles with its masks? Was it scared of The Loyal 3 because their forms were new to it? Or because it was a different "ogre"?

All this combined with how the billboard ogre looks different suggests it is not as Kieran envisioned, albeit, in subtle ways.
If it is a fabrication, it was a "twisted" wish, seemingly like with what the Toxic Chains did to The Loyal 3.

Notably, Kieran only is in the same scene as The Loyal 3 very briefly, & all he does about them is verbally noting them running away. Then The Teal Mask is returned to Ogerpon.

But what purpose would this serve?

Even if Ogerpon was a fabrication & not the real Ogerpon from the distant past, what would be the point in this distinction?
For one, it'd require another species being revealed, & I'm skeptical the info we have points to GF bringing in another species, especially 1 that carries the claim "Your precious Ogerpon is fake.". Not to mention, it'd undo the efforts to give Ogerpon good PR in Mossui Town.
It could introduce a cooler "ogre".
It could provide a counterpart that Kieran could ally with, assuming he doesn't end up working with "Dokutaro" later on, seeing as he's probably bitter that he couldn't get the strong, cool, relatable "ogre" Ogerpon he idolized to side with him, & implied to be power hungry.
It could establish what Tera Crystals can do, if it was a creation. (Or it had passed away, which the Tera Crystals somehow facilitated.)
Although it doesn't perfectly align with Kieran's flawed view of the ogre, it manifesting in a twisted wish sort of makes sense....


What do you all think?

Sorry about all the words.
 
Last edited:
CrackerVolley said:
Oh so it’s sorta exists when it really shouldn’t just like the Paradox Pokémon?
Click to expand...
You mean about Ogerpon?
Yeah, my theory does posit it could be a creation, but the narrative is kind of against it.

Present Ogerpon being a creation with a real Ogerpon that's different from it kinda devalues Kieran giving Ogerpon a good reputation among Mossui Town's people, the adventuring protagonist did with Ogerpon, & Kieran's grandpa's story & family history.

However, it'd be a neat twist if there was a real, evil ogre, as the legends/townsfolk believed, & the Ogerpon we meet, which just showed up suddenly after being unseen by Kieran despite searching for it years & was "cool" & good as Kieran wanted, was just a fabrification manifested by feelings & wishes.

Plus, it'd explain why the silhouette on the signboard is different.
FeebasExE said:
@Imaginym are you sure Game Freak is thinking that deep?

Could be a plot hole to be honest
Click to expand...
About which part(s), exactly? I went over a lot of things?

A plot hole implied they neglected something, right? If so, what?

Admittedly, present Ogerpon is arguably, "cool" (Even though it's more cute which some may see as a contrast.), "strong" (Except without its masks), & "lonely", like Kieran expected. It's seemingly mostly "relatable" to Kieran because he had a skewed view of it.

There's also the examine text in The Dreaded Den:
"There are markings that suggest that someone used to live here a long, long time ago".

If Ogerpon has been around for hundreds of years, it's surprising its den was so empty.
Still, considering Ogerpon's lack of arms, the markings implies a former human resident, clearly Ogerpon's human friend.
& its dubious Ogerpon has any things it'd leave in the den when not present. It'd probably take its mask(s) with it. (3 were in Kitakami Hall, apparently, before The Loyal 3 came back.) No food like berries or such on the ground is a little surprising.

Still, part of me wonders if the text implies that there hasn't been anyone AT ALL (Human nor Pokemon) there since when the human lived there or if it's just human-centric text indicating this is where Ogerpon's human friend & it lived.

Either way, it feels suspicious to me that someone going up the mountain regularly for years never found anything & text suggesting a resident a very long time ago, as opposed to a present resident.

There's also the curious contradiction between grandpa's tale & the signboard's tale saying The Loyal 3 Ogerpon's masks were wrested from it, but the "truth" claims they were taken after murdering Ogerpon's human friend in The Dreaded Den, but:

If the Mask taking happened in Ogerpon's cave, how did anyone witness it & share the details?
So wouldn't it be more plausible if they were taken in the town during the battle?

Narratively, it'd also be neat if evil Kieran also got an evil "ogre" of his own to use after seeking out Ogerpon for so long, especially since he presumably didn't get The Loyal 3, & at best, is involved with "Dokutaro".
 
Last edited:
I've also heard speculation that Keiran is getting their emotions pressed by a hypothetical "peach pokemon" since the whole narrative is a spin on the Momotaro story.
 
CrackerVolley said:
I've also heard speculation that Keiran is getting their emotions pressed by a hypothetical "peach pokemon" since the whole narrative is a spin on the Momotaro story.
Click to expand...
Could be. In theory, they could be separating Momotaro from the food he gives to the animals into Kieran (The person called Momotaro) & "Dokutaro" (the food) perhaps.

So just like in the myth, you give the creature some food (Momotaro gave dumplings to the dog, monkey & pheasant.) & it sides with you.
A Peach Pokemon that gives out a chain is a lot like giving food, especially if that chain "fuels" strength like food does & causes the receiver to side with the giver, like a creature given food to be made... "loyal".
 
Also, I just had a thought: Another point against Ogerpon being like Kieran envisioned:

Despite him thinking it was "cool", "strong" & that he idealized it winning a 3vs1, without its mask it cowered, & against each of the Titan Loyal 3, Ogerpon stays behind Protagonist & Carmine, maybe giving a buff once per battle, despite it already being a 2vs1 without it.

Without its masks, it cowered at a 3vs1 against foes it had beat with only its worst mask for the situation, & even when it was a 2vs1 (Against a Titan, but still.), Ogerpon didn't join, even if it gets a Mask.

Maybe that's just Game Mechanics induced stupidity, since the Titan Loyal 3 can be done in any order, so GF didn't want to have program to account for there being a Titan Loyal 3 battle where Ogerpon has no Mask? But it gets The Teal Mask back before any of the battles starts, so it always has at least 1 mask.
Maybe to not have to program which it chooses -But just go random pick?- for a battle?
Or to not spoil Ogerpon's movesets.
Did it get too worn out off-screen from The Loyal 3 at The Dreaded Den while Ogerpon was maskless?
 



I'm not sure what the big font text says, but the upper right corner's Japanese text says:
"Taro: It's the Terrarium Dome!"

1. In Japanese, it's written テラリラム (If I'm reading the small, blurry photo's font correctly.), with the first 2 characters being the same テラ that's used in テラスタル Terastal. Obvious pun is obvious. Sadly, the English word is "Terrarium", because it comes from "Terra", for "Earth". So I wonder how many "r"s the localization will go with?
2. Taro is Lacey's Japanese name. Founder & Director Cyrano seems to be present, too.


Man, I swear, if someone wanted to, they could probably make a semi-coherent map of a lot of the "Terarium Dome" by now, if they wanted to.
 
I did this quick calc of counting the number of visible feathers on Ho-Oh and multiplying it by the AP of one feather and I got 6.50253E+15 Tons of TNT or High 6-A results
At the same time though, I found the calc to be rather screw-y, I tried to copy the exact method on my spreadsheet, and I instead got 7.71796513614550E+10 Tons of TNT or 6-C results, and I sure as hell have no idea as to how @Executor_N0 got the mass of 6.42910657e14 kg without the density used

And that's not mentioning the calc creator didn't convert from km to m
 
Speaking of, how is Pokemon Horizons? Is it good? I've seen good comments around but haven't followed the anime in a loooong time besides keeping up with the news.

Not gonna lie, despite advocating for Ash to be changed as main character for a long time (not out of dislike for him, rather to allow for development that would remain without the need to keep using him) I kind of miss the guy, nostalgia kicked in hard when his tenure ended.
 
Tyloxtus said:
It’s only good for the side characters. Liko and Roy are planks of wood.
Click to expand...
Lol, really? I guess that was a risk with Liko since they intentionally seemed to make her as opposite as possible to avoid just repeating Ash. But yeah, I can see the risk of making her too passive or too low key with her personality. But even Roy? he seemed a lot more lively.

What about the story itself? I know the basic gist is that Liko has this pendant an evil team wants and she's actually looking for her dream and all. Is it interesting?
 


"Pokémon Scarlet or Pokémon Violet The Hidden Treasure of Area Zero Part 2: The Indigo Disk launches on December 14! Adventures await you at the Blueberry Academy, Trainers!"
 


"Trainers! Be sure to complete the storyline in Pokémon Scarlet or Pokémon Violet in order to play #PokemonScarletViolet The Hidden Treasure of Area Zero Part 2: The Indigo Disk DLC on 12/14! #NintendoSwitch"
 


"Pokémon Scarlet or Pokémon Violet bundles including The Hidden Treasure of Area Zero are out now!

Embark on the original and expanded adventures of #PokemonScarletViolet ❤️💜 together in one package!"



"Prepare to explore Paldea and beyond! Pokémon Scarlet + The Hidden Treasure of Area Zero Bundle (Game+DLC) and Pokémon Violet + The Hidden Treasure of Area Zero Bundle (Game+DLC) are now available on #NintendoSwitch! #PokemonScarletViolet"


So that's good if you want your S/V & DLC all together, although, presumably, the Indigo Disk part of the DLC isn't available yet because... reasons?
 

People on Chinese Social Media have been looking deep into the game, & since the base game & the 1st DLC are already known, people have already learned the lingo of the devs.
The posts in that Twitter are from a user who claims to have translated their findings.
Through this knowledge, the leftover data they have access to has been analyzed, giving a rough understanding of at the very least, sidequests & stuff for the 2nd DLC.
You know, the Indigo Disk?

Mind, since all they're working with is limited info like "This is a sidequest", "This character talks here", "The stuff is numbered in plot order", they only have rough guidelines of the stories, rather than the juicy, intricate details.

But this is still potentially spoileriffic! Read at your own risk!
 
Thread about which of Arceus hax is Tier 1, its got a number of agreements but if you want to add your thoughts:
www.vsbattles.com

Arceus Avatar Upgrade (Technically? More Clarification)

So I'm basically doing this preempt any questioning, also having been gone for some time is a perfect excuse to get some clarification on this stuff. Arceus' avatar is 5D, not all of it's hax is. Let's look at Arceus current ability descriptions and figure out which are. First up is it...
www.vsbattles.com www.vsbattles.com
 


Pokemon did a preview of The Indigo Disk, allowing people to access the gameplay early!
Above is Serebii's video on the experience!


Sorry about being like, half a day late to mentioning this, but still, this is pretty neat, & big news, if I do dare say!
 
Well the Transduality CRT needs to be applied, but that's its true form which I don't think they can interact with currently anyway, so won't affect the outcome.

But generally it isn't okay, because it's going to be a mess that it at best a incon because smurf Higher-Dimensional mind.
 
People looking into what is apparently base S/V -& or S/V with The Teal Mask- has lead to what seems like a strong lead regarding the names of the Pokemon in The Indigo Disk.

Spoilery Twitter post about it:



How does it (supposedly) work? Here's (supposedly) how, as I understand it:
The internal IDs of every Pokemon has a number, which corresponds to a Pokemon species name.
However, these IDs also supposedly correspond to an alphabetical order, which is different for every language, because different alphabets.

Thus, by checking which pre-existing Pokemon species ID numbers the unrevealed Pokemon are between, the alphabetical position -Which almost always differs by language because different alphabets- of the unrevealed Pokemon, & thus, the start of their name, can be determined.
By comparing what pre-existing Pokemon IDs they are between in different languages, words in multiple languages can be checked to figure out what are the most likely parts of the unrevealed Pokemon names.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Just_Butchering
The Boys Season 4 Discussion Thread
7 8 9
Replies
354
Views
18K
DaReaperMan
DaReaperMan
Sans2345
People Playground General Discussion Thread
Replies
9
Views
2K
Vyfourthaccount
Vyfourthaccount
Sans2345
The Backrooms General Discussion Thread
Replies
15
Views
2K
Greatsage13th
Greatsage13th
Sans2345
Death Forest General Discussion Thread
Replies
0
Views
942
Sans2345
Sans2345
Sans2345
Left 4 Dead General Discussion Thread
Replies
21
Views
2K
Artorimachi_Meteoraft
Artorimachi_Meteoraft
Back
Top