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Pokemon AP/Durability upgrade (All Tier 7s)

I didn't already explain it, as you likely didn't see my edit. The sprites have nothing to do with this. Nothing in my calc mentions sprites. It mentions the official Pokedex sizes of Pokemon. I don't even know why you guys are bringing up sprites. Is it because a Palkia battle scene is in the blog? That's just because I wanted a picture.
 
@Seed Technically there's still the Delibird calc if we're still able to use that...

Edit: Nvm Delibird isnt a tier 7
 
The thing is, not only do I still not like the sprite argument, the entire sky does NOT become covered in clouds. In Generation 6 Thunder does indeed call down a bolt of lightning, but it doesn't coat the entire sky. A local area forms clouds (this area being very small, considering the relatively small bolt takes up a notable portion of the clouds) before dropping the Thunder. The horizon is not covered whatsoever and the clouds do not appear far away in the slightest.

As you have previously stated, "it (Thunder) has appeared this way since gen 3", stating that they (Gamefreak) just received the graphical capabilities to portray the move in such a way. Well in 2013 we got another graphical upgrade, and we can plainly see that the feat you have described and calced is not at all what actually happens.
 
@Weekly that Delibird, assuming we're talking about the same Island level Delibird feat, was trained and only in the manga
 
@AS. You CLEARLY see thunderclouds above the Pokemon. Even if it's lower, it doesn't change the calc'd feat from earlier generations. If Frieza's Supernova gets a new interpretation that's only 5-B, it doesn't override the currently canon High 5-A one.
 
And again, I didn't bring up sprites in the original version of the blog, nor this thread before you guys did, so that argument is completely, and no offense, pulled out of the a**. The technical best compromise would be to average the height of all who can naturally learn it.
 
Pokemon is honestly just getting a bit ridiculous at this point. 99% of Pokedex entries are Wall to Small Building level with the "pseudo-legendaries" (and Machamp) being Town to Mountain level. And yet now we're trying to scale everyone who is Tier 7 to Island level?

I mean honestly my whole spiel in the blog was just me trying to avoid saying "this is absolutely ridiculous and anybody who's played or watched Pokemon can recognize this" but I guess we're at that point now.

I want you to watch a random episode of the anime. No bias in mind. No "AoE Fallacy" garbage that was only invented because people wanted Star Wars to be gigaton level consistently. No arbitrary "Wiki policies" in your head. In fact, just to increase the data points, go ahead and watch 10 episodes. 20 even. Completely random. I want you to record every feat and anti-feat in those episodes and judge them with complete honesty.

Did you get Island level? City level? Even just Multi-City Block level? No? Well no wonder. It's almost like in the 20 year long, 122 game spanning, 970+ episode long, 20 movie epic that is the Pokemon franchise "Island level" never has and likely never will be consistent with anything shown in the series.

I want you to realize this as well, to give you a sense of scale. With 970 episodes of the anime currently released, if all 20 episodes I told you to watch featured an Island level feat this would still mean Pokemon is only consistently Island level 2% of the time.

And don't give me that "AoE Fallacy" thing either because that's completely made up. It has no logical basis and exists pretty much solely because people don't want their favorite franchise to be any lower than their best outlier. Dragon Ball at least has "ki control" to explain it away. Pokemon has nothing. No excuse for allegedly Island level attacks to not instantly wipe out everything in the nearest 50 miles.

This doesn't even make sense from the perspective of the setting or even the plot.

Why in the world do you need "Cut" to get around a tree if your Pikachu can vaporize not only the tree but half the Route you're on as well? Instead of infiltrating the evil lairs at the end of the game why didn't you just bust through every wall straight to the villain without a drop of sweat?

How the hell do cities exist if every fight in the nearby Gym threatens to annihilate the city block if an attack misses?

I mean jeez. There are people skeptical enough of just the Pokedex entries for these problems alone. Tyranitar shatters mountains when it walks? Excuse me? Clearly not every Tyranitar or else I wouldn't be able to fight in the city. There wouldn't be a city to fight in! Just throwing out the Pokeball and having the Tyranitar land on the ground would shatter everything in the nearest mile.

Island level Pokemon makes no sense from a consistency perspective or an in-universe perspective. There's just no possible way you can seriously argue this over the attack just being a fancy animation when the entire setting literally would not be able to exist if this was the case.

And I know Pokemon humans are superhuman but you do know there's literally a case of someone taking a Hyper Beam from a Dragonite to the face right? Are they Island level? Because that's literally the only way this is going to make sense. Literally the only way you can justify humanity existing with Island level Pokemon not destroying them is if everyone is Island level so that just isn't significant at all.

No offense, I have no idea how this was ever a thought that was seriously considered.
 
@Cal Yes, but not across the horizon. You calced KILOMETERS of thunderclouds, when there are only what looks to be maybe a couple dozen meters.

This is the Thunder charging.

This is the Thunder landing.

While the area is slightly larger (as one would expect from something that got closer) as the ground than in the sky, it is still not even close to being a large area. The ground strike point is 9m at absolute max even if you want to drop a Thunder on Electivire. The 9m area in the clouds is maybe 1/6th of the frame at best, making the cloud area 54m at best.

Also, if you go frame by frame you can clearly see that the clouds look to be low hanging and are absolutely not covering the horizon line in any way. I have the opening shift so that is all for me tonight. Hopefully this will be resolved in the morning.
 
I would appreciate if everybody try to stay polite towards each other. Thank you.
 
Are you kidding me? This is, no offense, the literal worst argument I've ever seen on this wiki. AoE fallacy exists in fiction in general, whether you like it or not. Dragon Ball has ki control, sure. What about Naruto? Bleach? DC Comics? Marvel? Touhou? One Piece? JJBA? Fairy Tail? Sword Art Online? Digimon? Evangelion? Trigun? Yu Yu Hakusho? Sailor Moon? Steven Universe? Adventure Time? How often are they whatever tier they are? And you can take that up even further. Shin Megami Tensei? Sound of Drop? I/O? Cthulhu Mythos? Umineko? How often are they tier 2 or even 1? Guess Dragon Ball is the strongest fiction ever after all.
 
Yeah, and I liked Dragon Ball more back when they topped out at Low 4-C. and the HST back when they got solo'd by Yusuke.
 
@Cal Well you edited it. Also wouldn't the new generation games be more accurate in their portrayal? The graphics have gotten better and the artists know what they are doing. If older is better or more canonical (which makes no sense) then we should go with Gen 1, which show no clouds whatsoever. You keep pulling nonsense arguments out to justify a ridiculous calc that even you admitted was probably, if not totally invalid and unusable, an outlier. Why? Many people have disagreed with this for various reasons and many still are not satisfied with your answers or rationalizations. Why I don't agree with everything in LordXcano's rant, I do believe that accepting this would be nonsense.
 
Should... We even be debating this anymore ? This is getting... Heated. About the Delibird though... Sad we can't use it. I'll try to find another High 7-A to 6-C calc tomorrow. I don't want you guys fighting so much... You know... On occassions... Being an Empath sometimes is more of a curse than a gift.
 
That's what I meant. I didn't mean you skipped over things, and if I did imply that, I'm sorry. It's just as canon, is what I'm implying. More people agreed than disagreed, btw, including Azzy, who outranks everyone who gave an opinion so far.

Some verses can go from tier 7 to tier 4, or tier 8 to tier 2, but going from tier 8 to tier 7 is an outlier. Okay.
 
Does the Wiki only go with majority? I thought it was supermajority and the agreed upon consensus could be over-ruled with sufficient evidence.
 
It's pseudo-democratic. Staff outrank non-staff, and higher staff members outrank lower staff members, but debunking is a thing.
 
Actually, I never knew where the "Staff outrank non-staff and high staff members outrank lower ones came from", and disagree with the concept considering how fallacious it is.
 
The real cal howard said:
That's what I meant. I didn't mean you skipped over things, and if I did
imply that, I'm sorry. It's just as canon, is what I'm implying. More people agreed than disagreed, btw, including Azzy, who outranks everyone who gave an opinion so far.

Some verses can go from tier 7 to tier 4, or tier 8 to tier 2, but going from tier 8 to tier 7 is an outlier. Okay.
Click to expand...
Nice to know that you think Azzy is above us, so our opinions are not considered.
 
@Cal

That makes things a bit unfair by context then, yeah? But that's beside the point, this thread got derailed hard dude. It'll only get worse as time goes on if I've seen how these threads go when someone says no.
 
"What about Naruto? Bleach? DC Comics? Marvel? Touhou? One Piece? JJBA? Fairy Tail? Sword Art Online? Digimon? Evangelion? Trigun? Yu Yu Hakusho? Sailor Moon? Steven Universe? Adventure Time? How often are they whatever tier they are? And you can take that up even further. Shin Megami Tensei? Sound of Drop? I/O? Cthulhu Mythos? Umineko?"

I mean half my post was about how AoE isn't justified in 99% of cases so to actually beat my argument all you would've had to have done is shown evidence that Pokemon can control their AoE to an extreme extent.

But you didn't. You just proved my point that in most cases the "AoE Fallacy" has no actual logical basis and is founded entirely on feelings. I couldn't care less about Steven Universe or Sailor Moon. So just saying "But they're high level too" isn't going to persuade me.

Give me a logical point to support this. Don't appeal to policy or feelings about what a verse should be ranked as. I want a good in-universe explanation for why my Pikachu dodging a Hyperbeam doesn't result in the destruction of the city.
 
Never said your argument isn't considered, and I'm not going to apologize for recognizing one of the few people who can block anyone without scrutiny.
 
The real cal howard said:
That's what I meant. I didn't mean you skipped over things, and if I did
imply that, I'm sorry. It's just as canon, is what I'm implying. More people agreed than disagreed, btw, including Azzy, who outranks everyone who gave an opinion so far.

Some verses can go from tier 7 to tier 4, or tier 8 to tier 2, but going from tier 8 to tier 7 is an outlier. Okay.
Click to expand...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Fallacy#5._Appeal_to_popularity
 
Being able block someone doesn't mean shit Cal. Wow congrats you were promoted to admin and know how to press a key on the computer to ban? Congrats for having the ability of a 2nd Grader. Doesn't mean anything in a debate.
 
Touhou does it really well with island level humans. And I'm not threatening you. I would never do that, and just repeating things Ant has told to people like Matt.
 
I have no real opinion on this but jeez, you guys need to tone down your hostility.

@Blue You're not even arguing the revision anymore, instead you're acting condescending towards others, making the thread more hostile then it should be. That is not okay. At worst it's spam.

Same goes for a lot of people in the thread.

That said, Staff members opinions do not, or at least should not, outrank users. Just because we got promoted obviously doesn't mean we're more intelligent or well versed than normal users. We should treat each other as equals.
 
Can everyone relax? It's extremely disappointing that so many members, many of them staff or former staff, are getting this worked up and hostile over a simple revision thread. Of all things to get pissed off over on the internet, a discussion about the movement of clouds in a ******* Pokemon game? It's unbelievable.

Cal, Ant's a bureaucrat. It is well within his jurisdiction as one of the highest ranked staff members to warn other users like that. Here, in this disaster of a thread, it only makes things worse.

If another user gets hostile, tell them off, but don't get hostile in turn. You're only going to make things worse, and all these snide remarks, blatant insults, and apparent threats aren't helping.
 
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