- 167,676
- 76,256
Also, we already have a Composite Hierarchies page, but I suppose that could be expanded upon.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Please Remove Reality-Fiction Interaction
- Thread starter Pritti
- Start date
- Status
- 32,358
- 20,298
I have to respectfully disagree with Ant.
Nobody who is worth any concern thinks Author Avatars are Tier 0 for years now. Haven't seen it happen once.
Secondly, no, the Omniverse does not mean all of fiction and reality. it was only stated to be such in one 90s Guidebook nobody uses.
The Omniverse, in the actual comics and more recent guidebooks, is clarified to be a collection of multiverses containing every single possible universe that there can be. It is the "Complete Multiverse" explained in that set of Doctor Strange scans, which contains infinite universes of every single variation of spatial and temporal dimensions and all variations of the laws of physics.
As opposed to our "Local Multiverse", consisting of infinite universes that have 3 spatial dimensions, 1 temporal dimensions, and exact same laws of physics.
It is a perfectly valid term denotin the full High 1-B structure of the Marvel Cosmos as opposed to a 2-A set of infinite universes.
Nobody who is worth any concern thinks Author Avatars are Tier 0 for years now. Haven't seen it happen once.
Secondly, no, the Omniverse does not mean all of fiction and reality. it was only stated to be such in one 90s Guidebook nobody uses.
The Omniverse, in the actual comics and more recent guidebooks, is clarified to be a collection of multiverses containing every single possible universe that there can be. It is the "Complete Multiverse" explained in that set of Doctor Strange scans, which contains infinite universes of every single variation of spatial and temporal dimensions and all variations of the laws of physics.
As opposed to our "Local Multiverse", consisting of infinite universes that have 3 spatial dimensions, 1 temporal dimensions, and exact same laws of physics.
It is a perfectly valid term denotin the full High 1-B structure of the Marvel Cosmos as opposed to a 2-A set of infinite universes.
- 167,676
- 76,256
Well, I am fine with if we rewrite the page according to Kaltias' suggestions. Like DontTalkDT and Wokistan, I just hink that it should be mentioned that author avatars are not automatically tier 0, as we cannot assume that people will automatically know this, especially given that we have a profile for The Writer and The-One-Above-All.
Also, Omniverse really originally was intended to refer to all of fiction and reality combined when the term was first invented, and the Marvel handbooks picked up on that, but I agree that it has most recently been used to refer to the totality of the Marvel multiverse instead.
Also, Omniverse really originally was intended to refer to all of fiction and reality combined when the term was first invented, and the Marvel handbooks picked up on that, but I agree that it has most recently been used to refer to the totality of the Marvel multiverse instead.
- 32,358
- 20,298
No Antvasima. Even in the 90s, during the first time the term was used in the actual comics, it was in Quasar, where both the titular character and Uatu referred to it as a "Continuum of Multiverses".
- 167,676
- 76,256
Also, Omniverse hasn't always been used in the context of an infinite-dimensional multiverse either. When used by Alan Moore in the Captain Britain book in the early 1980s, it referred to the universes ruled by Roma, Merlyn, and Opal Luna Saturnyne, and patrolled by the Captain Britain Corps instead. The term has been used in a very inconistent manner during different eras.
- 32,358
- 20,298
Actually no because in the Captain Britan Corps comics they have appearances of Eternity and Infinity and their relation to the Omniverse / Multiverse. Nevermind as Captain Britain became more integrated with Marvel the Omniverse there became the same thing as the other comics.
- 167,676
- 76,256
@Matthew
Mark Gruenwald wrote the Quasar book, so that definition is certainly relevant as well. It still isn't his original take on the term that was stated by the handbook though.
I am just saying that the term has been used in an inconsistent manner over the years.
Mark Gruenwald wrote the Quasar book, so that definition is certainly relevant as well. It still isn't his original take on the term that was stated by the handbook though.
I am just saying that the term has been used in an inconsistent manner over the years.
- 167,676
- 76,256
@Matthew
Roma stated that Infinity and Eternity had asked her to judge Franklin Richards during Chris Claremont's Fantastic Four run in the late 1990s. Alan Moore used the term in a much more limited manner when it was first used in Marvel comicbooks around 15 years earlier.
Roma stated that Infinity and Eternity had asked her to judge Franklin Richards during Chris Claremont's Fantastic Four run in the late 1990s. Alan Moore used the term in a much more limited manner when it was first used in Marvel comicbooks around 15 years earlier.
- 32,358
- 20,298
The Quasar comics are very relevant cosmology wise as it was there that the concept of Multiversal Abstracts with Manifestation-Bodies in each universe was invented.
- 167,676
- 76,256
Yes, we can probably use their definition for the 1990s and forward Marvel comics, but I am extremely uncertain about a High 1-B Roma, Merlyn and Jaspers, given that the term was not used in the same manner back in the early 1980s. Alan Moore likely used it because it sounded impressive, much like Al Ewing did much later.
- 32,358
- 20,298
If Roma and Merlyn being High 1-B are outliers we can not use it.
But Jim Jaspers being High 1-B is possible given stuff like his feat in the Chaos Wave storyline. Please note that the Chaos Wave was noted to be going to destroy every spatial and temporal dimension and return the multiverse / omniverse to formless chaos.
But Jim Jaspers being High 1-B is possible given stuff like his feat in the Chaos Wave storyline. Please note that the Chaos Wave was noted to be going to destroy every spatial and temporal dimension and return the multiverse / omniverse to formless chaos.
- 10,758
- 6,491
A question that I think is worth bringing up here, when can we use out of universe information when dealing with a reality-fiction situation?
What I'm referring to are situations like Pokemon where, as far as I know, the CT's level of 2-B comes from how many pokemon games have come out as opposed to the number of universes being something that is determined through in-verse information.
In many cases of reality-fiction interaction, the capabilities of a character can be determined by looking at the feats they have in the story and how they are described by in-universe explanations without bringing details from the real world into the mix. But in cases where we have to resort to such an approach, how do we decide what is and isn't acceptable?
What I'm referring to are situations like Pokemon where, as far as I know, the CT's level of 2-B comes from how many pokemon games have come out as opposed to the number of universes being something that is determined through in-verse information.
In many cases of reality-fiction interaction, the capabilities of a character can be determined by looking at the feats they have in the story and how they are described by in-universe explanations without bringing details from the real world into the mix. But in cases where we have to resort to such an approach, how do we decide what is and isn't acceptable?
- 10,758
- 6,491
- 167,676
- 76,256
- 167,676
- 76,256
I have updated the Reality - Fiction Interaction page. Is this better?
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/index.php?title=Reality_-_Fiction_Interaction&diff=3501116&oldid=988620
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/index.php?title=Reality_-_Fiction_Interaction&diff=3501116&oldid=988620
- 1,290
- 508
I have neither the time nor the desire to deal with this problem. If now problem with "author avatar" is not on the agenda, then there is no special need for such a page. However, users must clearly understand that, for example, the Writer has his tier not because of his author avatar status, but because of the complexity of cosmology which he surpasses.Antvasima said:
- 32,358
- 20,298
Seems better.
- 167,676
- 76,256
- 167,676
- 76,256
Okay. So does that mean that the Reality - Fiction Interaction is currently acceptable, and that you do not wish to rewrite the Omniverse page, or have I misunderstood?
- 167,676
- 76,256
Okay then.
Also, I do not mind Matthew's omniverse definition for more recent Marvel comicbooks. I just do not think that we can backwards scale to when the word was first used in Captain Britain.
Also, I do not mind Matthew's omniverse definition for more recent Marvel comicbooks. I just do not think that we can backwards scale to when the word was first used in Captain Britain.
- 10,758
- 6,491
Since there doesn't seem to be a problem with the "number of games sold" interpretation anymore, I'll once ask this question.
When are we allowed to use out of universe information like that when analyzing a reality-fiction interaction situation?
When are we allowed to use out of universe information like that when analyzing a reality-fiction interaction situation?
- Status
Similar threads
