Bobsican
He/Him- 21,625
- 6,271
Continued from here
As this doesn´t seem to have been checked properly, I think it would be a good idea to make another thread, as Kukui clearly just closed it for respective inactivity.
(Copy-pasted from the original thread
"Without further a due, lets get started.
Contents
[hide]#Why should Ash's Pikachu be 6-B (Country Level) ?
Why should Ash's Pikachu be 6-B (Country Level) ?
For starter's, Pikachu has done an actual 6-B feat on his own thats legitimately 6-B surprisingly enough (and of course, awesome). If you look at this lovely calc Executor made , this wasn't just a calc for Ho-Oh. He also calced Pikachu's feat of destroying most of the dark clouds formed by Ho-Oh's Rainbow Wing using a powerful Thunderbolt. The result in power used ended up being 6-B.
To see what Pikachu actually did to get the feat calced, here's the scene from the movie I Choose You. This is the feat that resulted in being 6-B. [1]Pikachu Thunberbolt Now we come to the next section, which is the most important of this thread.
This is an outlier.....NOT???
Im sure that some of you will already be thinking this by the time we reach this part of the thread. And funny enough, out of many other ratings people can try pushing Ash's Pikachu up to be, 6-B actually has a lot of stuff legitimately supporting Pikachu to not make this an outlier. I'll be going through the checklist of things below on why thats the case:
#1: The gap in tier's for upgrading is small.
Simplest reason out of this. Pikachu is already normally rated as a High 6-C pokemon. Unlike anything else thats on the high end you can muster up, him jumping to 6-B with his own power isn't anything strange to glare at. It's very reasonable and doesn't mess anything up for anyone at all. The latter i'll go into more detail down below.
#2: It's Ash's Pikachu, not a wild one.
Not the biggest of reasons, but is very good support in itself when it comes to scaling. Pikachu's 6-B feat scales to no one. What do I mean by this specifically? I mean no non-legendaries. Now if this was just a wild/non-well trained Pikachu doing this feat, then you'd have the right to worry if this would scale to other High 6-C non-legendaries. Since this is Ash's Pikachu doing the feat, we don't have to worry about that. While it is no secret that Ash's Pikachu is a pretty good sized inconsistency in the Pokemon anime, it's very obvious that it's well above the paygrade of any other Pikachu you can think of. As well as many other non-legendaries it has defeated, especiallyin this movie where the feat comes from. No non-legendaries scale or even touch Ash's Pikachu's feats as it's a special case among it's kind. This will lead me to the third point before I finish this one.
#3: "I Choose You" Pikachu =/= Main Anime Pikachu
I know the "anime's inconsistent" counter will be brought up here, so I will address this right away before we get to that.
What do I mean by this? Im saying that the Pikachu owned by Ash in the I Choose You movie isn't the same one as Ash's Pikachu in the main anime series. In neither strength nor story. Now of course, for main series Pikachu, there have always been some inconsistencies with how strong he actually is due to some problems. Like how in one instance, he'll defeat a legendary like Latios, but then later be defeated by a newbie Snivy because Zekrom "reset" Pikachu's strength by stealing his powers and then returning some of it later. And other issues like this. We know this is a thing for Pikachu in the main series.
However, the "inconsistency" formula doesn't apply to Pikachu in I Choose You. The movie itself is already a remake of the anime, set in its own parallel world, and right from the very beginning Ash and Pikachu start out as major power houses. Up until the battle with Marshadow (i'll get to this below), Pikachu in this movie has no struggles with any other pokemon whatsoever. Simply put, Ash and Pikachu in this movie get to levels they had never achieved as fast in the regular anime. For example, Pikachu in this movie gains the same moveset (Iron Tail, Quick Attack, etc.) that normally took him until at least the Hoenn/Sinnoh sagas to learn, very early. That shows the difference in progress and power between versions. Because of this very thing, there's nothing in the movie that would make 6-B Pikachu wrong and the scaling from the main anime series doesn't have any connection to this.
The only actual Pokemo that would scale from Pikachu's 6-B feat would be Marshadow and Ho-Oh, the latter legendaries who are already High 6-B. A tier above Pikachu's own feat.
>"Pikachu may need a separate key"
In case this is brought up, this is something I would agree with since this feat is strictly from I Choose You and , other then legendaries, would scale to absolutely no one. It doesn't effect Pikachu's main series version like I explained, so Pikachu getting a separate key would be fine for this.
#4: The scaling perfectly fits Pikachu's place in pokemon tiering
This one is simple and stems from the above, so i'll sum this one up a bit.
Unlike any high level tier you could possibly think up for Pikachu, 6-B leaves no issues in scaling. We've already established why Pikachu scales above other High 6-C non-legendaries as it's a special case but also still being weaker than Legendary Pokemon, who start at "At least 6-B", for obvious reasons. Pikachu being flat out 6-B would put him right in the middle of both groups. Higher than High 6-C's but lower than 6-B Legendaries.
He'll be stronger than any normal non-legendary, who wouldn't scale to this, without being inflated to be above that of any legendaries who're at a higher end of 6-B than Pikachu is thanks to Ho-Oh and Marshadow. Nothing gets destroyed in this scaling.
#5: It's literally the plot of the movie.
This is one of, if not, the strongest reasons out of this that supports Pikachu being a 6-B. Pikachu being that strong is all part of the "I Choose You" movie plot because of he and Ash being given a Rainbow Wing from Ho-Oh. Summing it up, Ash and Pikachu were given the Rainbow Wing because Ho-Oh saw Ash worthy enough to be chosen as the next "Rainbow Hero". What is the R.H.? It's a trainer thats destined to encounter Ho-Oh in battle. Ho-Oh only gives one of it's Rainbow Wings to trainers who's pokemon have strength worthy enough to make them The Rainbow Hero so that they could use the Wing to travel to Mount Tensei and specifically battle Ho-Oh. That's the point of being given the Rainbow Wing in the 1st place.
To put this very bluntly, why would a Legendary Pokemon like Ho-Oh give any time of it's day to request a battle meeting with pokemon who are normally fodder to it's power? That makes no sense whatsoever, unless the pokemon it observes is something unique in its capabilities. Does this mean Pikachu's stronger than Ho-Oh? Absolutely not. Does this even mean Pikachu equals Ho-Oh? No it doesnt. Would it mean Pikachu's comparable in some way? Yes, and being a 6-B is definitely comparable to a High 6-B. Pikachu here would have to be strong enough to have Ho-Oh at least see it as different from among any other normal pokemon for Ash to be given a Rainbow Wing. Being a 6-B would allow that very conclusion as Pikachu can easily be weakert than Ho-Oh but also stronger than any other non-legendary Ho-Oh can set it's sights on to let Pikachu be worthy of a battle with it. We finally get to the last reason.
#6: Pikachu battles with Marshadow
This is another supporting feat. Toward the end of the movie, Pikachu is able to battle toe to toe with Marshadow, the latter using Ho-Oh's feather as a power source. Pikachu wasn't strong enough to actually beat Marshadow, but it was strong enough to fend off it's attacks and keep up with Marshadow mid-fight. And when doing his 6-B feat, he temporarily knocked out Marshadow. All of this would support Pikachu's 6-B rating being consistent and reasonable from the movie without ever surpassing the respective legendaries level of power.
This would also support the reasoning for Ho-Oh's particular interest in Pikachu's power as a 6-B for being able to show results and put up a good fight against a High 6-B like Marshadow. Not to mention, Marshadow's role in this movie was to be an observer for the Rainbow Hero and lead him to Mount Tensei so they could battle Ho-Oh. Marshadow wouldnt have ever done this if Pikachu wasn't worthy enough to be Ho-Oh's opponent with Ash.
That should do it for Pikachu's part in this. Pikachu, and only Pikachu, should be upgraded to 6-B for having an actual 6-B feat that doesn't mess up anything for anyone. No non-legendaries scale to this and the legendaries that would scale are already a tier above Pikachu's feat. And if Pikachu needs a separate key for "I Choose You", then im fine with that. Does anyone agree/disagree with this?" - Kukui
Note: For higher quality, please check the original thread at the top of this post, as it has been closed, I can´t just copy paste it in source mode anymore.
As this doesn´t seem to have been checked properly, I think it would be a good idea to make another thread, as Kukui clearly just closed it for respective inactivity.
(Copy-pasted from the original thread
"Without further a due, lets get started.
Contents
[hide]#Why should Ash's Pikachu be 6-B (Country Level) ?
Why should Ash's Pikachu be 6-B (Country Level) ?
For starter's, Pikachu has done an actual 6-B feat on his own thats legitimately 6-B surprisingly enough (and of course, awesome). If you look at this lovely calc Executor made , this wasn't just a calc for Ho-Oh. He also calced Pikachu's feat of destroying most of the dark clouds formed by Ho-Oh's Rainbow Wing using a powerful Thunderbolt. The result in power used ended up being 6-B.
To see what Pikachu actually did to get the feat calced, here's the scene from the movie I Choose You. This is the feat that resulted in being 6-B. [1]Pikachu Thunberbolt Now we come to the next section, which is the most important of this thread.
This is an outlier.....NOT???
Im sure that some of you will already be thinking this by the time we reach this part of the thread. And funny enough, out of many other ratings people can try pushing Ash's Pikachu up to be, 6-B actually has a lot of stuff legitimately supporting Pikachu to not make this an outlier. I'll be going through the checklist of things below on why thats the case:
#1: The gap in tier's for upgrading is small.
Simplest reason out of this. Pikachu is already normally rated as a High 6-C pokemon. Unlike anything else thats on the high end you can muster up, him jumping to 6-B with his own power isn't anything strange to glare at. It's very reasonable and doesn't mess anything up for anyone at all. The latter i'll go into more detail down below.
#2: It's Ash's Pikachu, not a wild one.
Not the biggest of reasons, but is very good support in itself when it comes to scaling. Pikachu's 6-B feat scales to no one. What do I mean by this specifically? I mean no non-legendaries. Now if this was just a wild/non-well trained Pikachu doing this feat, then you'd have the right to worry if this would scale to other High 6-C non-legendaries. Since this is Ash's Pikachu doing the feat, we don't have to worry about that. While it is no secret that Ash's Pikachu is a pretty good sized inconsistency in the Pokemon anime, it's very obvious that it's well above the paygrade of any other Pikachu you can think of. As well as many other non-legendaries it has defeated, especiallyin this movie where the feat comes from. No non-legendaries scale or even touch Ash's Pikachu's feats as it's a special case among it's kind. This will lead me to the third point before I finish this one.
#3: "I Choose You" Pikachu =/= Main Anime Pikachu
I know the "anime's inconsistent" counter will be brought up here, so I will address this right away before we get to that.
What do I mean by this? Im saying that the Pikachu owned by Ash in the I Choose You movie isn't the same one as Ash's Pikachu in the main anime series. In neither strength nor story. Now of course, for main series Pikachu, there have always been some inconsistencies with how strong he actually is due to some problems. Like how in one instance, he'll defeat a legendary like Latios, but then later be defeated by a newbie Snivy because Zekrom "reset" Pikachu's strength by stealing his powers and then returning some of it later. And other issues like this. We know this is a thing for Pikachu in the main series.
However, the "inconsistency" formula doesn't apply to Pikachu in I Choose You. The movie itself is already a remake of the anime, set in its own parallel world, and right from the very beginning Ash and Pikachu start out as major power houses. Up until the battle with Marshadow (i'll get to this below), Pikachu in this movie has no struggles with any other pokemon whatsoever. Simply put, Ash and Pikachu in this movie get to levels they had never achieved as fast in the regular anime. For example, Pikachu in this movie gains the same moveset (Iron Tail, Quick Attack, etc.) that normally took him until at least the Hoenn/Sinnoh sagas to learn, very early. That shows the difference in progress and power between versions. Because of this very thing, there's nothing in the movie that would make 6-B Pikachu wrong and the scaling from the main anime series doesn't have any connection to this.
The only actual Pokemo that would scale from Pikachu's 6-B feat would be Marshadow and Ho-Oh, the latter legendaries who are already High 6-B. A tier above Pikachu's own feat.
>"Pikachu may need a separate key"
In case this is brought up, this is something I would agree with since this feat is strictly from I Choose You and , other then legendaries, would scale to absolutely no one. It doesn't effect Pikachu's main series version like I explained, so Pikachu getting a separate key would be fine for this.
#4: The scaling perfectly fits Pikachu's place in pokemon tiering
This one is simple and stems from the above, so i'll sum this one up a bit.
Unlike any high level tier you could possibly think up for Pikachu, 6-B leaves no issues in scaling. We've already established why Pikachu scales above other High 6-C non-legendaries as it's a special case but also still being weaker than Legendary Pokemon, who start at "At least 6-B", for obvious reasons. Pikachu being flat out 6-B would put him right in the middle of both groups. Higher than High 6-C's but lower than 6-B Legendaries.
He'll be stronger than any normal non-legendary, who wouldn't scale to this, without being inflated to be above that of any legendaries who're at a higher end of 6-B than Pikachu is thanks to Ho-Oh and Marshadow. Nothing gets destroyed in this scaling.
#5: It's literally the plot of the movie.
This is one of, if not, the strongest reasons out of this that supports Pikachu being a 6-B. Pikachu being that strong is all part of the "I Choose You" movie plot because of he and Ash being given a Rainbow Wing from Ho-Oh. Summing it up, Ash and Pikachu were given the Rainbow Wing because Ho-Oh saw Ash worthy enough to be chosen as the next "Rainbow Hero". What is the R.H.? It's a trainer thats destined to encounter Ho-Oh in battle. Ho-Oh only gives one of it's Rainbow Wings to trainers who's pokemon have strength worthy enough to make them The Rainbow Hero so that they could use the Wing to travel to Mount Tensei and specifically battle Ho-Oh. That's the point of being given the Rainbow Wing in the 1st place.
To put this very bluntly, why would a Legendary Pokemon like Ho-Oh give any time of it's day to request a battle meeting with pokemon who are normally fodder to it's power? That makes no sense whatsoever, unless the pokemon it observes is something unique in its capabilities. Does this mean Pikachu's stronger than Ho-Oh? Absolutely not. Does this even mean Pikachu equals Ho-Oh? No it doesnt. Would it mean Pikachu's comparable in some way? Yes, and being a 6-B is definitely comparable to a High 6-B. Pikachu here would have to be strong enough to have Ho-Oh at least see it as different from among any other normal pokemon for Ash to be given a Rainbow Wing. Being a 6-B would allow that very conclusion as Pikachu can easily be weakert than Ho-Oh but also stronger than any other non-legendary Ho-Oh can set it's sights on to let Pikachu be worthy of a battle with it. We finally get to the last reason.
#6: Pikachu battles with Marshadow
This is another supporting feat. Toward the end of the movie, Pikachu is able to battle toe to toe with Marshadow, the latter using Ho-Oh's feather as a power source. Pikachu wasn't strong enough to actually beat Marshadow, but it was strong enough to fend off it's attacks and keep up with Marshadow mid-fight. And when doing his 6-B feat, he temporarily knocked out Marshadow. All of this would support Pikachu's 6-B rating being consistent and reasonable from the movie without ever surpassing the respective legendaries level of power.
This would also support the reasoning for Ho-Oh's particular interest in Pikachu's power as a 6-B for being able to show results and put up a good fight against a High 6-B like Marshadow. Not to mention, Marshadow's role in this movie was to be an observer for the Rainbow Hero and lead him to Mount Tensei so they could battle Ho-Oh. Marshadow wouldnt have ever done this if Pikachu wasn't worthy enough to be Ho-Oh's opponent with Ash.
That should do it for Pikachu's part in this. Pikachu, and only Pikachu, should be upgraded to 6-B for having an actual 6-B feat that doesn't mess up anything for anyone. No non-legendaries scale to this and the legendaries that would scale are already a tier above Pikachu's feat. And if Pikachu needs a separate key for "I Choose You", then im fine with that. Does anyone agree/disagree with this?" - Kukui
Note: For higher quality, please check the original thread at the top of this post, as it has been closed, I can´t just copy paste it in source mode anymore.
