2 staff
Stop making pointless comments so others can do their work. Everyone knows that even if a path is completely correct and fully aligned with your preferences, you’ll still start nitpicking for no reason, But it doesn’t matter, the person who needs to be convinced will be convinced and can recognize the right path
Stop being disingenuous. Vietthai never agreed to countless-D significant dimensions/AP, only HDE
He never agreed that any of the info you guys gave afterwards was proof of the extra dimensions being significant.
Curious. How can one prove significant status of these countless dimensions then? We know that the universe is stated to be infinite. Otherwise, I don't think there is any other way to prove significant status of higher dimensions beyond it. Moreover, the comparison of higher dimensions with lower ones implies that even significant dimensions like time is nothing but pages on a book to the higher ones in general soo it should be suffice imo. I don't think we need more evidence then what we already have here.
Time dimension is completely different from space dimension, time dimension isn't measured by physical size, so a room sized space dimension see the entirely of time dimension isn't make space dimension significant
Yes, that's true but it is still considered to be an higher dimension and significant in scope especially considering the fact it is in regards to the infinite universe here which is the main point of this statement as far as I'm concerned. It isn't locking in to specific kind of dimensions but all dimensions in general—regardless if it's spatial or temporal. Thus, I believe you could guestimate that all dimensions have similar characteristics in terms of how they view lower dimensions as.
Yeah, but it's not just time it's spacetime. Lee is able to see every past and future version of himself laid out like a map, this is because it sees spacetime in general as a map as there are Lee's in other universe's fighting within the Tower. The lower level of the Tower already manifests the entire spacetime continuum and the Gate is already accepted as being significant to both the normal 2A universe and the lower level of the Tower. If this wasn't already the case it never would've received a tier 1 rating so I don't understand the confusion here? The scan of Lee transcending beyond time and dimensions is referring to him after he ascends the Tower. He was also already able to manipulate and freely move through the spacetime continuum even before reaching the Gate. Which literally allows him to go to other universe's and see different versions of himself and he's able to summon other versions of himself from other worldlines. There is more than enough proof here, the literal pages of the Hetero Tower and Lee Hyperreal themselves also serve as proof.
The Tiering System FAQ details two ways in which this can be done. The first is to define the dimensional hierarchy as a bunch of higher dimensional universes that embed lower dimensional universes within themselves as an infinitesimal portion of themselves. That's not really something you can do in this scenario, so that just leaves the second: higher dimensional beings being explicitly defined as infinitely above lower dimensional ones in power.
"Not something you can do in this scenario" literally already has it accepted on the page as such lmao.
Ah yes it's only 4D spacetime which is why it's already accepted as 1C, what clear and concise logic.
Ironic how the guy fallaciously extrapolating against blatant evidence is trying to tell others what they are doing. It's really astonishing how the guy who's literally went on record to edit an entire wiki page to argue against a CRT is trying to tell anyone what is and isn't fallacious lol.
Tone it down.
My intent wasn't to rile anything up, I'm merely stating the objective nature of a past transgression of his. I'll tone it down though.
Sure, I'm going to assume you at least read the OP, but if you want a summary of that too let me know. The current arguments are as follows, Vietthai's message asks for proof regarding the dimensions either being stated to be infinite or universal in size;
Alipheese just gave his arguments above, but here's my argument:
The lengths you will go to in an attempt to appeal to staff should be studied, Ultima has already said not to copy paste what he says off site on the wiki. They also haven't seen the scans referenced in this page and has literally stated in other threads that when they give replies it's based off the interpretation of what the person says. Finepoint himself has also already clearly stated that he's not a fan of completely excluding context from a question so you can use someone's general statement as proof they agree with a specific claim. Which is precisely what you are doing, if you want Ultima or DarkDragonMedeus's opinions have them answer the CRT themselves after formally looking at the scans and evidence provided instead of just trying to appeal using your own interpretation of the scans when you don't even know the first thing about the verse.
And furthermore… considering the higher R>F values,
These were among the most practical pieces of evidence showing that the Gate’s dimensions are significant,
Really? My bad.
I've tried, but Ultima told me he doesn't want to (I left a request on his profile in case you don't believe me) and DDM hasn't answered my request yet. Don't be mistaken, I'm not avoiding having them actually evaluate the thread themselves.
There is no context that changes the fact that you are fallaciously trying to extrapolate a general rule (ie "each and every one of the Gate's extra dimensions is significant") from a specific case (ie the Gate being dimensionally superior to the Tower and the multiverse), and that doing so not only goes against reason but VSBW's standards as well.
Ironic how this is the first time you've seem to have fully read something I posted.
Now this is interesting, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but from my understanding your stance is the following;
Well, Ultima is probably busy, but I can at least ask @DarkDragonMedeus.
Please read this, it outlines Telomera's blatant misinterpretation of the previous CRT.
Can you elaborate more on what you specifically mean by this? Because I was under the impression temporal dimensions did not impact scaling as heavily as spatial dimensions do by default, not to mention it isn't just spatial it's both temporal and spatial.
Cause temporal dimensions are infinite by default unless proven otherwise thus you don't need to prove the length of time
They also showed evidence of The Gate also being above temporal dimensions (or at least a temporal dimension, to be more clear)
That why the verse currently is rated as 1-C (6D), and is 7D due to one insignificant spatial dimension, or rather spatial dimension with unclear size, from the past upgrade thread
I'm confused then, if the Gate just needs a temporal dimension we have that. The Chinese term yes, was strictly referencing spatial dimensions but spatial dimensions aren't the only thing that compromises the Gate.
The set of all time points is uncountably infinite, as time is treated as a continuous variable, meaning any two moment, there's another moment and so on. This is analogous to real numbers R, between two numbers there's always an other infinitely others like—0.99999...., 0.44444....., 1.001..., 1/2...., and so on. No matter how many points you list. There will always infinitely more in between
That just describe how time work, due to time contain uncountable infinitely many of "snapshot" which is events within time, continuously.
Ok? I feel like this is starting to derail a bit, that's completely fine, I don't and never have cared to argue there being countless temporal dimensions, and iirc temporal dimensions and spatial dimensions don't even need to be equal in quantity to even qualify for 1B?
Temporal dimension and spatial dimension are incomparable, they are completely different thing, so you can't say they are equal or not, cause you can't even make a comparison in the first place
If you can't make a comparison because they are incomparable and completely different things, then why are we attempting to do precisely that? I was told that dimensional spaces of the whole verse are by default considered to be significant unless shown otherwise, now you are telling me that I need countless temporal dimensions when previously you were just asking of proof for the dimensions being significant either by a statement of infinite size or universal size, which I provided. The sudden shift to temporal dimensions doesn't make sense to me, if they don't have countless temporal dimensions then what?
No?, i didn't say you need countless temporal dimensions, my reply is just i thought you made a claim that there are countless spartial and countless temporal dimensions, which i clarify that the CN word you mentioned only referring to spatial dimension and not temporal dimension
Definitely a miscommunication there, if you're referring to this reply here. I had thought that DarkDragonMedeus was saying that it was just a dimension with space and no time, instead of space-time, and thus in his eyes did not qualify due to the dimension lacking space, which I had intended to clarify.
Don't use the 3rd or 4th scan as evidence, that strictly refers to the dimension beyond the Gate which is unapplicable to the Gate itself in this CRT.
I was told by Qaw that universe is infinite isn't the proof, it could be infinite in 3 basic dimensions and the rest is not significant
Well if Qaw could come here and look at the scans and give a formal reply, since the Gate being called a universe and hence infinite can't possibly be in just 3 basic dimensions when it's already accepted as being more than 3 or 4 dimensional. Also while we don't have a verbatim statement that uses the word "infinite" the Gate has no concept of beginning or end...which is like...virtually the same thing. I'm not sure if you saw that scan earlier.
I'm aware, I was once a supporter of Honkai. Can you link that? I wanna see how exactly that was obtained as reference.
