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Pandimensional beings and Bill Cipher

Hello everybody!
Well, I've been noticing in some debates that took place on this wiki about the pandimensional beings of Gravity Falls, and how they lack feats, etc.

But if we pay attention, they DO have some feats, technologically speaking.

And please don't roll your eyes thinking it's just another thread like all the others, I read them all and put things here that I haven't seen in any other discussion on this wiki.

Now, I'll post some scans of the Official Journal 3, and maybe someone could even create a profile for these aliens?
(I'm new here, sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong place.)

So, first of all, Ford, to make the Portal to the Multiverse, he needed super advanced technology, and it was with the materials he found on the Trilazzx ship that he was able to start his project. There, they found a small battery called the Hyperdrive, which holds all the power to turn on the portal (besides holding a technology beyond human comprehension, even in the face of geniuses), and they only managed to do something with direct help from Bill himself. To continue with his plan with the Hyperdrive, Ford had to study fifth-dimensional calculus.

After building the Portal, where its only source of power originates from the Hyperdrive, which is nothing more than a small battery of the pandimensional spaceship, its destruction could put the entire fabric of reality in danger, In addition to the ability to tear the dimensional fabric.

So, just to sum it all up: a tiny battery of the pandimensional ship has the ability to destroy the entire reality, tear apart the dimensional fabric, create portals to infinite universes and to study it, fifth-dimensional knowledge was needed.

Now, let's go about Bill Cipher.

On his profile page, it says that he is only capable of destroying the universe together with the rift, right? But the cartoon itself has already demonstrated that he has the full ability to do this with his own powers.

In the 19th episode, a battle takes place in Stanley's mind, where Bill builds a universe for such a scenario, then he starts torturing the characters and they discover that they can use powers too. A small battle ensues until Bill just gets tired and ends it all. And how does he do it? Destroying that entire universe with one word, leaving absolutely everything in a white vacuum.

Now, you can say "ah, but it only happened in the mind, he doesn't have that ability to do that in the real world". Wrong.
In the same episode, he demonstrates being able to make monsters appear out of nowhere with a laser of his own, a feat he does in the real world in Weirdmageddon, outside other things. Apart from that, he is a reality manipulator who throughout the entire history is placed as a direct threat to the universe, so it would not be likely that he would only be able to destroy it with the rift.

Another thing is that Ford himself puts Bill as a being from a higher dimension.

Apart from that, there are higher dimensions in the GFverse, and the place where Bill is, is a place that is between all the dimensions that exist, so it wouldn't be crazy to put him as, Ford himself said, a being from a higher plane of existence.

(Another little detail I wanted everyone to know, too: Bill gives galaxies as a reward to his heralds, lol)

So, what do you guys think?
 
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Bill do have the feat of destroying his home dimension along with everyone on it. Besides, Time Baby clearly mentioned the very fabric universe would be destroyed completely if Weirdmaggedon would continue (and spread into the rest of the universe)

Also:
Originating from a higher dimension does not have an impact Tiering by itself
Bill destroyed the dimension he originated from along with everything on it, so it is relevant if that's the case.

Also there's this thing the Axolotl said about Bill:
 
Bill do have the feat of destroying his home dimension along with everyone on it. Besides, Time Baby clearly mentioned the very fabric universe would be destroyed completely if Weirdmaggedon would continue (and spread into the rest of the universe)

Also:

Bill destroyed the dimension he originated from along with everything on it, so it is relevant if that's the case.

Also there's this thing the Axolotl said about Bill:
Pinpointing a tier and such for Bill Cipher is fairly difficult. One thing I will say is that he has many controversial feats. Ford says he originates from a higher dimension yet Bill says his home dimension is flat. Really doesn’t line up and your drawing 2 different statements together.
 
Is fifth dimensional calculus really that strong of a supporting evidence?
Not really unless he has 5-dimensional feats, which in this case he doesn’t. Like you could be 11-D but completely fodder. Bill either originating from a higher dimension or not, he needs necessary feats to support it
 
Bill do have the feat of destroying his home dimension along with everyone on it. Besides, Time Baby clearly mentioned the very fabric universe would be destroyed completely if Weirdmaggedon would continue (and spread into the rest of the universe)

Also:

Bill destroyed the dimension he originated from along with everything on it, so it is relevant if that's the case.

Also there's this thing the Axolotl said about Bill:
Destroying a realm that’s spatially flat isn’t very impressive.

Time Baby said the universe would be destroyed if Bill’s “rip” in the dimension continued, referring to the Interdimensional rip created by the activation of Ford’s portal. That’s not a feat that can be scaled to Bill’s power, it’s a chain reaction feat.
 
Yeeeah i disagree tbh

Fifth dimensional calculus is almost a good evidence since it is mathematics, but nothing else is said about it's nature, so we can't place it as a infinitely more complex aspect of a higher dimension that fits for low 1-C, nor anything related to the multiverse, it just doesn't have elaboration really

Ford saying bill from a higher plane might be either a reference to the nightmare realm or his abilities, or he just doesn't know since bill later proves that he is from the 2nd dimension

The rift stuff is, well, the rift really, and bill having control over time and such is just hax, he doesn't have full control over the timeline

The battery endaraging the fabric of reality vould work for 3-A but that would depend on the range, plus why would bill scale to it? I'm lost

Mindscape stuff is not tierable unless the mindscape is an actual alternate universe, and him doing what he can do there in the real world doesn't mean he has, pretty sure he could control time there but needed the kill the time baby to control it in the real world fpr instance, still, no evidence of it.

While i don't think bill's desperation means he'd be lying, we don't know how that would work, for all he know, he could just create the galaxies and not manipulate it or anything, or hell, since his goal was to conquer the universe, he could just give stanley a existing galaxy to govern or maybe the size boost he visioned for stanford, too vague for even "possibly 3-C via creation"

At the same time, i think ford mentioned in the diaries that 2d beings hurt him, so if the 2nd dimension is not infinitely insignificant for 3D stuff, his feat of destroying it could be "possibly higher", not 3-A since it is still a small and flat dimension but eh
 
Fifth dimensional calculus is almost a good evidence since it is mathematics, but nothing else is said about it's nature, so we can't place it as a infinitely more complex aspect of a higher dimension that fits for low 1-C, nor anything related to the multiverse, it just doesn't have elaboration really

Ford saying bill from a higher plane might be either a reference to the nightmare realm or his abilities, or he just doesn't know since bill later proves that he is from the 2nd dimension
Didn't Ford complain about not finishing 5D calculus to help finish the portal which would be supported by "his higher dimensional bill statement" which the portal was made for
 
Destroying a realm that’s spatially flat isn’t very impressive.

Time Baby said the universe would be destroyed if Bill’s “rip” in the dimension continued, referring to the Interdimensional rip created by the activation of Ford’s portal. That’s not a feat that can be scaled to Bill’s power, it’s a chain reaction feat.
Except that Bill literally control that rip, since when Bill was defeated, the rip was also closed too. If the rip was unrelated to Bill's power, then why he the rip would close after Bill's defeat?

Besides, Bill wasn't worried in the slightest about the universe exploding because of Weirdmaggedon
 
The rift isn't what destroys all existence, that would be the Nightmare Realm, fated to one-day self-destruct. The same Nightmare Realm that has a direct portal open to the rest of existence. The danger of the rift comes from the NR eventually exploding one day.

Not to mention Bill having control of the rift comes off as odd given he needed to make a machine to do the work for him.
 
Not to mention Bill having control of the rift comes off as odd given he needed to make a machine to do the work for him.
He only needed the machine to open the rift, as in the main universe he could only exist in the mindscape.

However once Weirdmaggedon started he took control of the rift and it was made cleat the rift was directly connected to Bill as his defeat is what closed it. Bill also made the rift bigger and summoned the creatures from the Nightmare Realm
The rift isn't what destroys all existence, that would be the Nightmare Realm, fated to one-day self-destruct.
Except Time Baby literally states the destruction would happen because of Weirdmaggedon. The Nightmare Realm destroying itself wouldn't be what destroy the universe as it's not in the Nightmare Realm
 
He only needed the machine to open the rift, as in the main universe he could only exist in the mindscape.
Right, and what stops him from opening it in the Nightmare Realm? Bill wanted to escape the Nightmare Realm's destruction, and there were other dimensions he would be just fine in, without having to astral project himself.
Bill also made the rift bigger
Bill did not make the rift any bigger if you're referring to when the rift was first opened. That was the rift expanding by itself.

Even if he has control, I BilI don't even see why Bill should scale to the rift in the first place. Who cares if it closes when he dies? In no way that means he's supplying the power to explode. It's the rift threatening existence; presumably, because of how unstable it is, all Bill has to do it hold it open long enough for it to explode.
Except Time Baby literally states the destruction would happen because of Weirdmaggedon.
He states it's what would happen because of the rift, which holds a portal to the Nightmare Realm.
The Nightmare Realm destroying itself wouldn't be what destroy the universe as it's not in the Nightmare Realm
The Nightmare Realm has a portal open directly to it. It's a multiversal-sized construct. There is zero chance of the energy of such an explosion not passing through the rift.
 
Right, and what stops him from opening it in the Nightmare Realm? Bill wanted to escape the Nightmare Realm's destruction, and there were other dimensions he would be just fine in, without having to astral project himself.
Bill needed a physical form to escape. His body was still in the Nightmare Realm and he needed to escape to another universe
Even if he has control, I BilI don't even see why Bill should scale to the rift in the first place. Who cares if it closes when he dies? In no way that means he's supplying the power to explode. It's the rift threatening existence; presumably, because of how unstable it is, all Bill has to do it hold it open long enough for it to explode.
Because Bill's power was directly controlling the rift. When Bill was defeated, he was no longer around so the effects of Weirdmaggedon were erased
He states it's what would happen because of the rift, which holds a portal to the Nightmare Realm.
Yes, but he says that the universe will be destroyed. And it was very much implied that the universe would be destroyed regardless. Bill even said he'd liberate the universe the same way he did to his own world (meaning, he'd destroy it)

Also, Bill wanted to escape the destruction of the Nightmare Realm by traveling into the main universe. Him being caught in the destruction makes no sense given what he wanted to do (to search for a more stable place to call his own and rule there without the fear of it being destroyed)
The Nightmare Realm has a portal open directly to it. It's a multiversal-sized construct. There is zero chance of the energy of such an explosion not passing through the rift.
Uh sure, but the Nightmare Realm is still there even after the effects of Weirdmaggedon as seen in the Lost Legends comics. So it being destroyed has nothing to do with Weirdmaggedon
 
Didn't Ford complain about not finishing 5D calculus to help finish the portal which would be supported by "his higher dimensional bill statement" which the portal was made for
Which, as i said, is untrue as bill himself reveals to ford later that he is from the 2nd dimension, so either of them knowning 5D calculus doesn't matter for tiering
 
Which, as i said, is untrue as bill himself reveals to ford later that he is from the 2nd dimension, so either of them knowning 5D calculus doesn't matter for tiering
But Ford didn’t meet Bill until after he destroyed his home dimension, and he’s clearly not 2d by the time they meet. So Ford calling Bill a higher dimensional being isn’t contradictory
 
Something I’ve been wondering about, we have statements from the Reddit Q&A that would at least put Bill at least high 3A. And the show supports that he can manipulate and even rewrite the rules of reality, so how come we don’t have those?

Also, just curious, what are the thoughts regrading Soos’s infinite pizza slice from the Time Wish
 
But Ford didn’t meet Bill until after he destroyed his home dimension, and he’s clearly not 2d by the time they meet. So Ford calling Bill a higher dimensional being isn’t contradictory
It is because:

1. He only became 3D in the weirdmageddon, where he had his "multidimensional makeover"

2. Destroying his home dimension didn't turn him 3D last i recall, he just went to the nightmare realm.

3. Even if it did, that doesn't mean he had to be 4 or 5D afterwards, he could've just been 3D.

4. Ford doesn't even say "higher dimensional" he says that bill was from a "higher plane" and that he would give ford "divine and otherwordly insight", that does not imply higher dimensionality, it implies that ford saw bill as a more advanced being that knew far more than he did
 
It is because:

1. He only became 3D in the weirdmageddon, where he had his "multidimensional makeover"

2. Destroying his home dimension didn't turn him 3D last i recall, he just went to the nightmare realm.

3. Even if it did, that doesn't mean he had to be 4 or 5D afterwards, he could've just been 3D.

4. Ford doesn't even say "higher dimensional" he says that bill was from a "higher plane" and that he would give ford "divine and otherwordly insight", that does not imply higher dimensionality, it implies that ford saw bill as a more advanced being that knew far more than he did
Except we have a page directly from Journal 3 of what the 2nd dimension looks like, Ford is standing right through it. It’s clear that Bill isn’t 2D when they meet.

Never said that was the case. We don’t really know the origin of his powers.

It might not directly imply him being higher dimensional, but it does lend itself to being more credible. Bill being able to peer through time even while inside the timeline does hint to him at least being 4th dimensional.
 
It is stated that Bill has infinite power and that he can grant infinite power, you have to give him High 3-A xdd.
 
Except we quite literally see it be an explosion that wipes out the universe all at once, not a chain reaction feat
And despite this Bill views the entire thing as a huge party and is completely unphased by the prospect of the universe going out in a literal bang
 
Except we quite literally see it be an explosion that wipes out the universe all at once, not a chain reaction feat
And despite this Bill views the entire thing as a huge party and is completely unphased by the prospect of the universe going out in a literal bang
The explosion stemming from the dimensional rift, not Bill, making it a chain reaction feat.
 
The explosion stemming from the dimensional rift, not Bill, making it a chain reaction feat.
Chain reaction would imply doing it planet by planet or like knocking out the sole supporting pillar for a building, this is a blast that would wipe out the entire universe all at once

And as for scaling: The Dimensional Rift is put at Universe level, whereas Bill is a threat to the wider Multiverse (which doesn't necessarily mean he is multiversal, it just means he is a much bigger threat)
That and like I said earlier, Bill is completely unphased by the Dimensional Rift destroying the Universe and views it as just a party
 
So, is this strictly about the 11D scaling or or this is a general CRT? Cause I do feel he’s way too low and should at least be put at 2C, though I’m wondering if there should be a separate thread for that
 
So, is this strictly about the 11D scaling or or this is a general CRT? Cause I do feel he’s way too low and should at least be put at 2C, though I’m wondering if there should be a separate thread for that
2-C is too much for bill lol. He couldnt do shit to a timeline let alone several
 
2-C is too much for bill lol. He couldnt do shit to a timeline let alone several
Initially I was thinking just going with high 3A, but I found no notes nor any CRTs regarding the Reddit Q&A. I feel like that coupled with the show there should be plenty to talk about
 
Except we have a page directly from Journal 3 of what the 2nd dimension looks like, Ford is standing right through it. It’s clear that Bill isn’t 2D when they meet.

Never said that was the case. We don’t really know the origin of his powers.

It might not directly imply him being higher dimensional, but it does lend itself to being more credible. Bill being able to peer through time even while inside the timeline does hint to him at least being 4th dimensional.
yeah, because he left his dimension and went to the nightmare realm, also ford believes bill came from a "similar world that was mysteriously destroyed" so that's not the place he was from.

we don't know yeah, but that doesn't help the case of him being above 3D anyway

not only is that just an ability unless connected to his existence, time is not 4D, it is not a dimension above the third, it is simple the dimension we count after the 3 dimensions of space, spacetime as a whole is 4D but only togheter, time by itself is not comparable to spatial dimensions
 
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