- 15,614
- 7,054
Legitimately did not even notice this was supposed to be peak Frisk, as well.Xanxussama1010 said:
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Pacifist Frisk vs Rohan Kishibe
- Thread starter The_Wright_Way
- Start date
- 187
- 23
Aside from their derermination, which would still be affected, the only other thing beyond that is the person playing the game, and they're not/shouldn't be a factor in the arguement, lest we give every video game character a "save and load" for that reason.
- 15,614
- 7,054
1. No. Their DETERMINATION isn't being affected, unless you mean them just becoming more or less determined. Rohan isn't affecting a power than resists erasure from a multiversal entity.SirBrownBear said:
2. SAVE/LOAD is canonically a power Frisk possesses. It's even explained. The argument of "every game character would have it" doesn't work, here.
- 15,614
- 7,054
...The fact that Frisk can both SAVE and LOAD? They don't need to be dead to use the power. It's just when they usually resort to it.Newendigo said:
- 15,614
- 7,054
Considering they don't need to currently exist to use it, I wouldn't see that as a problem.
But let's assume it is. What's stopping Frisk from using it if Rohan tries to take it? It's not like they're going to sit there since they can still act.
But let's assume it is. What's stopping Frisk from using it if Rohan tries to take it? It's not like they're going to sit there since they can still act.
- 187
- 23
@Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot
It's affected the moment Rohan writes a command in their head. And exactly what attack does Asriel do that claims to erase things from existance? The black hole/mouth suck? Nothing about that implies erasure, at best it's just a gravity well, as it's appearence and actions would imply such. And what multiverse is alluded too? All that's ever stated is a "timeline" that's constantly tampered with, but still that singular timeline.
I'm aware of the game's rules/logic, which is why I said once Rohan dictates the actions of Frisk's mind/will/determination, there's nothing he can do. They won't load because the option to do so was overwritten.
It's affected the moment Rohan writes a command in their head. And exactly what attack does Asriel do that claims to erase things from existance? The black hole/mouth suck? Nothing about that implies erasure, at best it's just a gravity well, as it's appearence and actions would imply such. And what multiverse is alluded too? All that's ever stated is a "timeline" that's constantly tampered with, but still that singular timeline.
I'm aware of the game's rules/logic, which is why I said once Rohan dictates the actions of Frisk's mind/will/determination, there's nothing he can do. They won't load because the option to do so was overwritten.
- 15,614
- 7,054
"It's affected the moment Rohan writes a command in their head."
You mean after Rohan opens up and examines/alters Frisks head.
"And exactly what attack does Asriel do that claims to erase things from existance?"
It's a pretty direct statement in the battle. Asriel mentions how every time Frisk is killed in the fight (confirming they're not just regenerating pre-death), they're losing more and more of their grip on reality, and simultaneously being retroactively removed from everyone's memories.
"Every time you die, your grip on this world slips away. Every time you die, your friends forget you a little more. Your life will end here, in a world where no one remembers you..."
"And what multiverse is alluded too? All that's ever stated is a "timeline" that's constantly tampered with, but still that singular timeline."
No offense to you, but this has been addressed so many times I'm really reluctant to even acknowledge it, anymore (the number of past threads is absolutely ridiculous). Though the simplest thing I can tell you is to watch or play the Sans fight.
"I'm aware of the game's rules/logic, which is why I said once Rohan dictates the actions of Frisk's mind/determination, there's nothing he can do. They won't load because the option to do so was overwritten."
Again, proof that Rohan can affect something Frisk needs neither their body nor soul to use? Even ignoring that, as I said, Rohan has to first make the changes. Frisk can still act while this is happening. Just look at the Asriel fight.
You mean after Rohan opens up and examines/alters Frisks head.
"And exactly what attack does Asriel do that claims to erase things from existance?"
It's a pretty direct statement in the battle. Asriel mentions how every time Frisk is killed in the fight (confirming they're not just regenerating pre-death), they're losing more and more of their grip on reality, and simultaneously being retroactively removed from everyone's memories.
"Every time you die, your grip on this world slips away. Every time you die, your friends forget you a little more. Your life will end here, in a world where no one remembers you..."
"And what multiverse is alluded too? All that's ever stated is a "timeline" that's constantly tampered with, but still that singular timeline."
No offense to you, but this has been addressed so many times I'm really reluctant to even acknowledge it, anymore (the number of past threads is absolutely ridiculous). Though the simplest thing I can tell you is to watch or play the Sans fight.
"I'm aware of the game's rules/logic, which is why I said once Rohan dictates the actions of Frisk's mind/determination, there's nothing he can do. They won't load because the option to do so was overwritten."
Again, proof that Rohan can affect something Frisk needs neither their body nor soul to use? Even ignoring that, as I said, Rohan has to first make the changes. Frisk can still act while this is happening. Just look at the Asriel fight.
- 187
- 23
"It's a pretty direct statement in the battle."
How do we know that's not just Asriel mocking his defeat and becoming stronger over time, slowly reforming the timeline and absorbing the cast/erasing memories? Plus Asriel states wanting to reset everything once he's done, so that statement would more accuratly apply to that.
"Though the simplest thing I can tell you is to watch or play the Sans fight."
I have, and the statement perfectly describes you, the player, saving, loading, starting, and reseting the timeline/save file.
"Again, proof that Rohan can affect something Frisk needs neither their body nor soul to use?"
Again, Cheap Trick is a manifestation of a person's will, something Rohan was able to affect, my arguement isn't "Rohan can reach his hand into this apparent nonexistance and rewrite Frisk" it's his will/determination was already altered and dictated the moment Heaven's Door finished writing it's command, if his will/determination persists after death, then so do the rules of the ability. And no, Heaven's door knocks you out, he can't act in the middle of it, and depending on Rohan's commands, might not be able to move period.
Prove that Frisk can resist an ability that directly dictates his will, aka determination. Or that their soul/will fully vanishes after death into this "nonexistance", and doesn't linger long enough to load.
How do we know that's not just Asriel mocking his defeat and becoming stronger over time, slowly reforming the timeline and absorbing the cast/erasing memories? Plus Asriel states wanting to reset everything once he's done, so that statement would more accuratly apply to that.
"Though the simplest thing I can tell you is to watch or play the Sans fight."
I have, and the statement perfectly describes you, the player, saving, loading, starting, and reseting the timeline/save file.
"Again, proof that Rohan can affect something Frisk needs neither their body nor soul to use?"
Again, Cheap Trick is a manifestation of a person's will, something Rohan was able to affect, my arguement isn't "Rohan can reach his hand into this apparent nonexistance and rewrite Frisk" it's his will/determination was already altered and dictated the moment Heaven's Door finished writing it's command, if his will/determination persists after death, then so do the rules of the ability. And no, Heaven's door knocks you out, he can't act in the middle of it, and depending on Rohan's commands, might not be able to move period.
Prove that Frisk can resist an ability that directly dictates his will, aka determination. Or that their soul/will fully vanishes after death into this "nonexistance", and doesn't linger long enough to load.
- 15,614
- 7,054
"How do we know that's not just Asriel mocking his defeat and becoming stronger over time, slowly reforming the timeline and absorbing the cast/erasing memories?"
Asriel stating that no one will remember Frisk is clearly taunting, but that does not mean it is an inaccurate statement. He had also already absorbed the rest of the cast, but specifically linked their loss of memories to each time Frisk died, as they were fading away.
"I have, and the statement perfectly describes you, the player, saving, loading, starting, and reseting the timeline/save file."
I don't think you paid close enough attention then, because the statements I'm referring to mention multiple timelines.
"Again, Cheap Trick is a manifestation of a person's will, something Rohan was able to affect"
In the loosest possible sense. Jotaro isn't punching DIO in the willpower when SP hits The World.
"my arguement isn't "Rohan can reach his hand into this apparent nonexistance and rewrite Frisk" it's his will/determination was already altered and dictated the moment Heaven's Door finished writing it's command"
See my previous comment. "Even ignoring that, as I said, Rohan has to first make the changes".
"if his will/determination persists after death, then so do the rules of the ability"
Based on what? It wouldn't be linked to any part of Frisk Rohan actually interacted with.
"And no, Heaven's door knocks you out, he can't act in the middle of it, and depending on Rohan's commands, might not be able to move period."
Except not at all. OP said this is peak Frisk, who resisted being dead through force of will. Rohan isn't going to be able to just knock them out. Even then, Frisk acted without moving their body after Asriel froze them.
"Or that their soul/will fully vanishes after death into this "nonexistance", and doesn't linger long enough to load"
Every death in the entire game that isn't against Asriel. Especially those against Flowey, where Frisk wouldn't even have a reality to linger in.
Asriel stating that no one will remember Frisk is clearly taunting, but that does not mean it is an inaccurate statement. He had also already absorbed the rest of the cast, but specifically linked their loss of memories to each time Frisk died, as they were fading away.
"I have, and the statement perfectly describes you, the player, saving, loading, starting, and reseting the timeline/save file."
I don't think you paid close enough attention then, because the statements I'm referring to mention multiple timelines.
"Again, Cheap Trick is a manifestation of a person's will, something Rohan was able to affect"
In the loosest possible sense. Jotaro isn't punching DIO in the willpower when SP hits The World.
"my arguement isn't "Rohan can reach his hand into this apparent nonexistance and rewrite Frisk" it's his will/determination was already altered and dictated the moment Heaven's Door finished writing it's command"
See my previous comment. "Even ignoring that, as I said, Rohan has to first make the changes".
"if his will/determination persists after death, then so do the rules of the ability"
Based on what? It wouldn't be linked to any part of Frisk Rohan actually interacted with.
"And no, Heaven's door knocks you out, he can't act in the middle of it, and depending on Rohan's commands, might not be able to move period."
Except not at all. OP said this is peak Frisk, who resisted being dead through force of will. Rohan isn't going to be able to just knock them out. Even then, Frisk acted without moving their body after Asriel froze them.
"Or that their soul/will fully vanishes after death into this "nonexistance", and doesn't linger long enough to load"
Every death in the entire game that isn't against Asriel. Especially those against Flowey, where Frisk wouldn't even have a reality to linger in.
- 187
- 23
I'll just repost my edit that was probably too late for the reply. "Plus Asriel states wanting to reset everything once he's done, so that statement would more accuratly apply to that."
"I don't think you paid close enough attention then, because the statements I'm referring to mention multiple timelines."
We are talking about the same scene, but consider this. Sans is clearly a being that's not affected by loads and resets, he remembers all of them. So, just like a person that's stuck in a groundhog's day scenario, a single "day" to anyone else is "days" for them, who have relived it multiple times, just swap day with timeline and there's the point.
"In the loosest possible sense. Jotaro isn't punching DIO in the willpower when SP hits The World."
He's punching the construct of DIO's will/fighting spirit, which by the laws of the verse reflect the damage onto the user, so technically yes, he is "punching his will".
"Based on what? It wouldn't be linked to any part of Frisk Rohan actually interacted with."
...His will/determination, the thing that's responcible for loading, and based on, again, stands being embodiments of a person's will.
"Except not at all. OP said this is peak Frisk, who resisted being dead through force of will. Rohan isn't going to be able to just knock them out. Even then, Frisk acted without moving their body after Asriel froze them."
The two events and powers involved are completly different to one another, you can't use one to invalidate the other with the reasoning of "cause X with their random, unrelated ability couldn't".
"Every death in the entire game that isn't against Asriel. Especially those against Flowey, where Frisk wouldn't even have a reality to linger in."
Where in the game does there exist a point where reality is destroyed? Before the Omega Flowey fight there's still a ground to walk in, and a doorway to enter once the fight's done, and characters to call you after the fight's finished. Flowey didn't reset or rewrite anything during or after that point, so where's this destroyed reality coming from?
"I don't think you paid close enough attention then, because the statements I'm referring to mention multiple timelines."
We are talking about the same scene, but consider this. Sans is clearly a being that's not affected by loads and resets, he remembers all of them. So, just like a person that's stuck in a groundhog's day scenario, a single "day" to anyone else is "days" for them, who have relived it multiple times, just swap day with timeline and there's the point.
"In the loosest possible sense. Jotaro isn't punching DIO in the willpower when SP hits The World."
He's punching the construct of DIO's will/fighting spirit, which by the laws of the verse reflect the damage onto the user, so technically yes, he is "punching his will".
"Based on what? It wouldn't be linked to any part of Frisk Rohan actually interacted with."
...His will/determination, the thing that's responcible for loading, and based on, again, stands being embodiments of a person's will.
"Except not at all. OP said this is peak Frisk, who resisted being dead through force of will. Rohan isn't going to be able to just knock them out. Even then, Frisk acted without moving their body after Asriel froze them."
The two events and powers involved are completly different to one another, you can't use one to invalidate the other with the reasoning of "cause X with their random, unrelated ability couldn't".
"Every death in the entire game that isn't against Asriel. Especially those against Flowey, where Frisk wouldn't even have a reality to linger in."
Where in the game does there exist a point where reality is destroyed? Before the Omega Flowey fight there's still a ground to walk in, and a doorway to enter once the fight's done, and characters to call you after the fight's finished. Flowey didn't reset or rewrite anything during or after that point, so where's this destroyed reality coming from?
- 15,614
- 7,054
"I'll just repost my edit that was probably too late for the reply. "Plus Asriel states wanting to reset everything once he's done, so that statement would more accuratly apply to that.""
He definitely does, but he can only do so after Frisk is truly dead. He even says with his taunt that Frisk's life would end in a world where no one remembered them, meaning even as they died, no one else would know they existed.
"We are talking about the same scene, but consider this. Sans is clearly a being that's not affected by loads and resets, he remembers all of them. So, just like a person that's stuck in a groundhog's day scenario, a single "day" to anyone else is "days" for them, who have relived it multiple times, just swap day with timeline and there's the point. "
I don't think this is accurate. Sans does not remember the resets. He knows about them through gut feeling and research, but clearly shows that he loses his memory like everyone else. For instance, when he tests to see if Frisk is a time traveller, he does so by telling them a secret code only he knows, having them reset, and then recite the code. If he remembered resets, he wouldn't need them to prove this. He also doesn't remember a completed genocide run, but gets an instinctual bad feeling about you.
"...His will/determination, the thing that's responcible for loading, and based on, again, stands being embodiments of a person's will."
Stands being embodiments of someone's will doesn't give reasoning for it being able to lock down a will-based power transcendent of the character, their soul, and the reality they inhabit.
"He's punching the construct of DIO's will/fighting spirit, which by the laws of the verse reflect the damage onto the user, so technically yes, he is "punching his will"."
He is punching an object created from DIO's will and spiritual energy. Said object is, however, not the abstract, metaphysical concept of his will and spirit. That's what I'm getting at.
"The two events and powers involved are completly different to one another, you can't use one to invalidate the other with the reasoning of "cause X with their random, unrelated ability couldn't""
They aren't at all. I didn't even argue Frisk could resist having powers removed. I only argued what has been proven. Frisk, through sheer force of will, refused to stay dead. Why would Frisk, with the exact same motivation and force of will, stay unconscious? Especially since being unconscious would easily lead to death?
"Where in the game does there exist a point where reality is destroyed?"
You've seen the genocide ending, right? It's there, whether you comply with Chara or not.
He definitely does, but he can only do so after Frisk is truly dead. He even says with his taunt that Frisk's life would end in a world where no one remembered them, meaning even as they died, no one else would know they existed.
"We are talking about the same scene, but consider this. Sans is clearly a being that's not affected by loads and resets, he remembers all of them. So, just like a person that's stuck in a groundhog's day scenario, a single "day" to anyone else is "days" for them, who have relived it multiple times, just swap day with timeline and there's the point. "
I don't think this is accurate. Sans does not remember the resets. He knows about them through gut feeling and research, but clearly shows that he loses his memory like everyone else. For instance, when he tests to see if Frisk is a time traveller, he does so by telling them a secret code only he knows, having them reset, and then recite the code. If he remembered resets, he wouldn't need them to prove this. He also doesn't remember a completed genocide run, but gets an instinctual bad feeling about you.
"...His will/determination, the thing that's responcible for loading, and based on, again, stands being embodiments of a person's will."
Stands being embodiments of someone's will doesn't give reasoning for it being able to lock down a will-based power transcendent of the character, their soul, and the reality they inhabit.
"He's punching the construct of DIO's will/fighting spirit, which by the laws of the verse reflect the damage onto the user, so technically yes, he is "punching his will"."
He is punching an object created from DIO's will and spiritual energy. Said object is, however, not the abstract, metaphysical concept of his will and spirit. That's what I'm getting at.
"The two events and powers involved are completly different to one another, you can't use one to invalidate the other with the reasoning of "cause X with their random, unrelated ability couldn't""
They aren't at all. I didn't even argue Frisk could resist having powers removed. I only argued what has been proven. Frisk, through sheer force of will, refused to stay dead. Why would Frisk, with the exact same motivation and force of will, stay unconscious? Especially since being unconscious would easily lead to death?
"Where in the game does there exist a point where reality is destroyed?"
You've seen the genocide ending, right? It's there, whether you comply with Chara or not.
- 187
- 23
"He definitely does, but he can only do so after Frisk is truly dead."
Or when Frisk gives up after dying so many times and doesn't load anymore.
"I don't think this is accurate."
Fair enough, but even still, without memories carrying over, that shows how there's only one timeline that's being consistantly altered by you, Flowey, and Chara.
"Stands being embodiments of someone's will doesn't give reasoning for it being able to lock down a will-based power transcendent of the character, their soul, and the reality they inhabit."
Where, what and how do you come to the conclusion of a trancendent conceptual being?
"He is punching an object created from DIO's will and spiritual energy. Said object is, however, not the abstract, metaphysical concept of his will and spirit. That's what I'm getting at."
That's not what Frisk is or becomes, that's what I'm getting at.
"Why would Frisk, with the exact same motivation and force of will, stay unconscious?"
Because there's a difference from coming back after being hit with a lethel attack that's already ended, and ignoring the continous effects of an ability that's being prefrormed on you while you're still alive.
"You've seen the genocide ending, right? It's there, whether you comply with Chara or not."
Yes I have, but even in that situation, Chara just kills you, and presumabally takes over your body, not destroys reality. If that were the case, then how do you reset the game and still have Chara's influence/was playing Chara while going incognito in the pacifist ending following a genocide?
Or when Frisk gives up after dying so many times and doesn't load anymore.
"I don't think this is accurate."
Fair enough, but even still, without memories carrying over, that shows how there's only one timeline that's being consistantly altered by you, Flowey, and Chara.
"Stands being embodiments of someone's will doesn't give reasoning for it being able to lock down a will-based power transcendent of the character, their soul, and the reality they inhabit."
Where, what and how do you come to the conclusion of a trancendent conceptual being?
"He is punching an object created from DIO's will and spiritual energy. Said object is, however, not the abstract, metaphysical concept of his will and spirit. That's what I'm getting at."
That's not what Frisk is or becomes, that's what I'm getting at.
"Why would Frisk, with the exact same motivation and force of will, stay unconscious?"
Because there's a difference from coming back after being hit with a lethel attack that's already ended, and ignoring the continous effects of an ability that's being prefrormed on you while you're still alive.
"You've seen the genocide ending, right? It's there, whether you comply with Chara or not."
Yes I have, but even in that situation, Chara just kills you, and presumabally takes over your body, not destroys reality. If that were the case, then how do you reset the game and still have Chara's influence/was playing Chara while going incognito in the pacifist ending following a genocide?
- 15,614
- 7,054
"Or when Frisk gives up after dying so many times and doesn't load anymore."
I think the whole point of the fight is that such a thing both can't and won't happen because of how determined Frisk is. It's the only point in the entire game where dying doesn't boot you to the load screen. Frisk just wills themself better and keeps going. Considering that, and Asriel noting that he actually feels Frisk fading away, them being destroyed seems far more likely of an event.
"Fair enough, but even still, without memories carrying over, that shows how there's only one timeline that's being consistantly altered by you, Flowey, and Chara."
I don't think that's the case, either. Sans explicitly mentions multiple timelines twice within the fight, which he wouldn't do if he only observed one, and even mentions there would be more left if Chara "consumed" one. He also mentions parallel versions of himself.
"Where, what and how do you come to the conclusion of a trancendent conceptual being?"
Being? What? I'm referring to DETERMINATION itself. Frisk's DETERMINATION exists independently of their body and SOUL, as it functions when both are destroyed, and is not tied to their reality either, as they still have it after both Flowey and Asriel wipe their timelines.
"That's not what Frisk is or becomes, that's what I'm getting at."
It's not what Frisk is, it's what they draw their power from.
"Because there's a difference from coming back after being hit with a lethel attack that's already ended, and ignoring the continous effects of an ability that's being prefrormed on you while you're still alive."
There is not some attack that forces you to stay dead. The state of death is kinda maintained on its own. Coming back from unconsciousness is quite literally nothing by comparison.
"Yes I have, but even in that situation, Chara just kills you, and presumabally takes over your body, not destroys reality. If that were the case, then how do you reset the game and still have Chara's influence/was playing Chara while going incognito in the pacifist ending following a genocide?"
I'm genuinely confused as to how you came to this conclusion, and think you might have skipped something. At the end of the genocide route, Chara explicitly states they're going to destroy the world. You can choose to help them or refuse. They do so either way. When you boot up the game, you can't reset, because there's nothing to reset. There's only an empty void. The only way to get the game back is for Chara to recreate the world, which they only do if you willingly give them your SOUL. Those are the events that always play out. Maybe you missed the reset part? Some videos don't show it.
I think the whole point of the fight is that such a thing both can't and won't happen because of how determined Frisk is. It's the only point in the entire game where dying doesn't boot you to the load screen. Frisk just wills themself better and keeps going. Considering that, and Asriel noting that he actually feels Frisk fading away, them being destroyed seems far more likely of an event.
"Fair enough, but even still, without memories carrying over, that shows how there's only one timeline that's being consistantly altered by you, Flowey, and Chara."
I don't think that's the case, either. Sans explicitly mentions multiple timelines twice within the fight, which he wouldn't do if he only observed one, and even mentions there would be more left if Chara "consumed" one. He also mentions parallel versions of himself.
"Where, what and how do you come to the conclusion of a trancendent conceptual being?"
Being? What? I'm referring to DETERMINATION itself. Frisk's DETERMINATION exists independently of their body and SOUL, as it functions when both are destroyed, and is not tied to their reality either, as they still have it after both Flowey and Asriel wipe their timelines.
"That's not what Frisk is or becomes, that's what I'm getting at."
It's not what Frisk is, it's what they draw their power from.
"Because there's a difference from coming back after being hit with a lethel attack that's already ended, and ignoring the continous effects of an ability that's being prefrormed on you while you're still alive."
There is not some attack that forces you to stay dead. The state of death is kinda maintained on its own. Coming back from unconsciousness is quite literally nothing by comparison.
"Yes I have, but even in that situation, Chara just kills you, and presumabally takes over your body, not destroys reality. If that were the case, then how do you reset the game and still have Chara's influence/was playing Chara while going incognito in the pacifist ending following a genocide?"
I'm genuinely confused as to how you came to this conclusion, and think you might have skipped something. At the end of the genocide route, Chara explicitly states they're going to destroy the world. You can choose to help them or refuse. They do so either way. When you boot up the game, you can't reset, because there's nothing to reset. There's only an empty void. The only way to get the game back is for Chara to recreate the world, which they only do if you willingly give them your SOUL. Those are the events that always play out. Maybe you missed the reset part? Some videos don't show it.
- 187
- 23
That last part was indeed my bad, I forgot the ending extends past the "ending".
Anyways, as much as I enjoy a good debate, this is going nowhere. A good chunk of all of this is basically up to personal interpertation, and I no longer have the commitment to this series to keep these walls of text going for a debate that boils down to "how I choose to classify this vague in-game thing." and I mean that on both sides. Minds were made up on the "details" a long time ago, no one's gonna get swayed, and there's little to nothing concrete to definitivley prove one side or the other.
Anyways, as much as I enjoy a good debate, this is going nowhere. A good chunk of all of this is basically up to personal interpertation, and I no longer have the commitment to this series to keep these walls of text going for a debate that boils down to "how I choose to classify this vague in-game thing." and I mean that on both sides. Minds were made up on the "details" a long time ago, no one's gonna get swayed, and there's little to nothing concrete to definitivley prove one side or the other.
- 15,614
- 7,054
This is completely fine. I have no qualms with us disagreeing on the interpretation of something, and actual debate (as opposed to people just verbally beating each other) is always welcome.SirBrownBear said:
- 6,698
- 2,496
It's rare thing that's for sure
- 2,771
- 236
They come back again due to save and load.
- 15,614
- 7,054
SAVE and LOAD are not attacks. They'd just be used to undo what Rohan did.
- 2,771
- 236
Undo Rohan attacks =/= attack Rohan
Also Heaven Door work at a 4-D level?
Also Heaven Door work at a 4-D level?
- 12,239
- 1,112
If we bring novels into this Heavens door let's him bypass 4d stuff. In the manga it's only subtly hinted at though and that's not through power just speed.
- 15,614
- 7,054
Yes. Because they'd resist being unconscious the same way they resisted being dead.Eficiente said:
Unless you're saying Heaven's Door would effect the DETERMINATION that exists beyond Frisk's body and SOUL, which no one has actually provided anything to suggest and instead just keeps reposting mind and soul interactions.
- 15,614
- 7,054
The problem is that in character, Frisk would never actually kill Rohan. Maybe try to incap him? IDK.
- 15,407
- 5,723
Yeah but SBA means Frisk is willing to kill.
Also don't forget that Flowey and Asgore's fights are canon within the pacifist route. Frisk isn't as much as a harmless pacifist as people think.
Also don't forget that Flowey and Asgore's fights are canon within the pacifist route. Frisk isn't as much as a harmless pacifist as people think.
- 15,614
- 7,054
Yeah, but canon Frisk (as in just them and not with the player's outside influence) only actually fought them without the intent to actually kill them. They definitely still fight, but they're anti-murder.
- 15,407
- 5,723
Well it's not like Frisk needs to kill Rohan. An incapacitated Jojo is a Jojo unable to use his stand (Most of the time).
- 214
- 24
What's stopping Rohan from tearing out Frisk's pages?
- 2,771
- 236
Frisk powers come from a 4-D (Likely 2-A) power source.
Similar threads
