-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Overlord: Ainz's Tier
- Thread starter Assaltwaffle
- Start date
- Status
- 15,407
- 5,717
@Dargon He specifically used a separate artifact for this. He didn't just do it with his general power like Ainz do.
- 15,636
- 5,391
Fair enough, that was a poor example.
It's still a noncombative spell. No reason for the entire energy it produces to be applied to his regular attacks.
It's still a noncombative spell. No reason for the entire energy it produces to be applied to his regular attacks.
- 32,327
- 20,219
Saikou is right.
- 8,438
- 3,292
- Thread starter
- #47
Then for now I shall argue why it should apply.
1. The attacks are both Magic based. All spells draw from his magic and drain it accordingly. If it all comes from the same source, there is no reason to think that his creation magic is weaker than his offensive abilities like Fallen Down.
2. Weather and environmental manipulation are seen as incredible feats in-verse. Even the strongest character outside of Ainz's group was amazed and remarked at the incredible level of magic that was being displayed by cloud clearing. Environmental manipulation is clearly regarded as impressive.
None is men react when Ainz freezes the lake, but they are impressed by his offensive power.
3. The environmental magic is lower tier. So basically every tier has stronger magic, correct? Why then would Ainz's lower tier spells that aren't even offensive require the caster to posses magnitudes more power than effortful spells made for combat.
1. The attacks are both Magic based. All spells draw from his magic and drain it accordingly. If it all comes from the same source, there is no reason to think that his creation magic is weaker than his offensive abilities like Fallen Down.
2. Weather and environmental manipulation are seen as incredible feats in-verse. Even the strongest character outside of Ainz's group was amazed and remarked at the incredible level of magic that was being displayed by cloud clearing. Environmental manipulation is clearly regarded as impressive.
None is men react when Ainz freezes the lake, but they are impressed by his offensive power.
3. The environmental magic is lower tier. So basically every tier has stronger magic, correct? Why then would Ainz's lower tier spells that aren't even offensive require the caster to posses magnitudes more power than effortful spells made for combat.
- 15,407
- 5,717
If he can produce X amount of joules for an absolutely random spell, no reason why he can't do the same with spells meant to hurt. It's visibly the same energy he uses to fight and isn't a ritual or something completely separate from his regular attacks. I agree with Matt that ED is being taken too far. Again.
- 15,636
- 5,391
>being taken too far again
This is like the first time people have taken issue with it. I don't like how this is suddenly being taken out of proportion.
That put, I can see where Assault is coming from now; his spells have the same energy source and would ED wouldn't be applicable.
This is like the first time people have taken issue with it. I don't like how this is suddenly being taken out of proportion.
That put, I can see where Assault is coming from now; his spells have the same energy source and would ED wouldn't be applicable.
- 15,407
- 5,717
I say "again" because I distinctively remember an era more than a year ago where every weather feat was ED and I'm just having flashbacks to that era right now.
- 15,636
- 5,391
This is one instance total, two maybe if you stretch the other discussion on the Shovel Knight verse rn.
ED makes clear the difference between applicable and non-applicable feats. I personally apologize for getting a bit caught up with the downgrades; it doesn't reflect my intentions behind making the page or what the page indicates itself.
From the page:
That is not to say environmental destruction feats cannot be applied to Attack Potency, Durability, and Striking Strength by any means. This is merely the result of case-by-case analysis, and depending on the context of the feat, may be a defining feat of a verse in question.
ED makes clear the difference between applicable and non-applicable feats. I personally apologize for getting a bit caught up with the downgrades; it doesn't reflect my intentions behind making the page or what the page indicates itself.
From the page:
That is not to say environmental destruction feats cannot be applied to Attack Potency, Durability, and Striking Strength by any means. This is merely the result of case-by-case analysis, and depending on the context of the feat, may be a defining feat of a verse in question.
- 32,327
- 20,219
That's how it starts... Every avalanche begins with a snowflake.
>Has PTSD Flashbacks
>Has PTSD Flashbacks
- 21,354
- 2,971
more like an Abomasnow
- 15,636
- 5,391
Matthew Schroeder said:
- 287
- 35
I think creation should still be considered ED sense its a spell that specificly causes changes to the environment, however there many statements that would give Ainz a higher tier.
The dragon that Ainz one-shoted in volume 11 destroyed a city while fighting another dragon.
''And finally, Feoh Tiwaz, to the west.This western city had been destroyed during a battle between two Frost Dragons — Olasird'arc=Haylilyal and Munuinia=Ilyslym, and it was little more than tumbled ruins.''
Dominion authority was also stated to be capable of destroying a city.
''It was an angel of the highest order, that could easily destroy a city.
Ainz's nuclear blast spell only destroyed a city district but keep in mind that he was actively trying not to destroy too much of the city.
He could have widened the spell to try and catch CZ in the blast. However, Ainz was worried about the problems that might result from destroying too much of the city, so he had not done so.'
The ancient capital of the dwarf kingdom called Feo Berkana was stated to have been destroyed by a demon god.We know for a fact that Ainz and his guardians are vastly supperior to the demon gods who were defeated by the 13 heroes.
Normaly i would be against giving a higher tier to a character just because of a statement but when there so many of them i dont think they can be ignored .Even evileye's trump card was stated to be enough to destroy a city and she is weaker than most members of the pleiades.I think Ainz and Shalltear should be upgraded from low 7-B to 7-B or at the very least put them at Low 7-B, possibly 7-B.
The dragon that Ainz one-shoted in volume 11 destroyed a city while fighting another dragon.
''And finally, Feoh Tiwaz, to the west.This western city had been destroyed during a battle between two Frost Dragons — Olasird'arc=Haylilyal and Munuinia=Ilyslym, and it was little more than tumbled ruins.''
Dominion authority was also stated to be capable of destroying a city.
''It was an angel of the highest order, that could easily destroy a city.
Ainz's nuclear blast spell only destroyed a city district but keep in mind that he was actively trying not to destroy too much of the city.
He could have widened the spell to try and catch CZ in the blast. However, Ainz was worried about the problems that might result from destroying too much of the city, so he had not done so.'
The ancient capital of the dwarf kingdom called Feo Berkana was stated to have been destroyed by a demon god.We know for a fact that Ainz and his guardians are vastly supperior to the demon gods who were defeated by the 13 heroes.
Normaly i would be against giving a higher tier to a character just because of a statement but when there so many of them i dont think they can be ignored .Even evileye's trump card was stated to be enough to destroy a city and she is weaker than most members of the pleiades.I think Ainz and Shalltear should be upgraded from low 7-B to 7-B or at the very least put them at Low 7-B, possibly 7-B.
- 525
- 64
Your quotes also prove that Ainz has direct control over how much destruction he can cause with his spells though, sort of also proving that Assaltwaffle may be correct. There is really no reason that Ainz wouldn't be able to use the same amount of"power" to also use a spell of the same caliber offensively. Hes not using some kind of conduit for Creation, its still the same source, his own power.TheOneBelowAll123 said:
I say bring him back to 6-C or to 6-B.
Also. I already mentioned Evileye already having the capability to destroy a city easily. I think that just proves that if half somebody half the strength(well, probably less) of a floor guardian can already easily destroy a city, its not so crazy to think that a floor guardian/ Ainz could boast far higher destructive power.
- 287
- 35
Actualy Ainz can only control the AOE of his spells with enhancements such as widen magic.
Ainz desent draw power from any source to use creation, super tier spells dont use any MP and act more like a special ability rather than actual spells.
I have no problem with Ainz being 7-B but 6-B seems like a little too much.
Ainz desent draw power from any source to use creation, super tier spells dont use any MP and act more like a special ability rather than actual spells.
I have no problem with Ainz being 7-B but 6-B seems like a little too much.
- 525
- 64
Super tier magic still procs magical resistance though, which is why Shalltear can tank multiple of these, its still magical power (MP). The MP comes from somewhere even if it doesn't actually use/expend any MP from Ainz, where else is it coming from? The person has to have a certain amount of power to use it.TheOneBelowAll123 said:
- 287
- 35
I dont think it was stated that magic resistance had anything to do with shalltear being able to tank super tier spells, its more likely that its because of her sheer durability.I also dont think it was even stated that resistance works against super tier magic in the first place.
I might make another thread about upgrating Ainz to 7-B but i am very sceptical about the 6-C feat eiven more so about the 6-B statement..
I might make another thread about upgrating Ainz to 7-B but i am very sceptical about the 6-C feat eiven more so about the 6-B statement..
- 525
- 64
Super Tier Magic is still categorized as a spell, even if it is similar to a skill. Why would it not be mitgated by magical defense?TheOneBelowAll123 said:
Regardless if you read through the thread you would see that the fallen down calc is a pretty huge lowball in the first place.
- 8,438
- 3,292
- Thread starter
- #64
Also it isn't just one 6-B statement; there are two. One by the dark elf twins and another by Ainz himself.
- 287
- 35
Thats also what i am wondering.I am pretty curious to see how much of an upgrade Ainz will get.Jobbo said:
- 8,438
- 3,292
- Thread starter
- #68
I'm looking for a way to rescale the shot. Honestly I straight up can't see Shalltear in Bambu's original calc, but if worst comes to worst I can use his image to do some rescaling.
The general fundamentals of diameter and height were done improperly so I need to redo those as well. Sorry for the wait but I am working on it.
The general fundamentals of diameter and height were done improperly so I need to redo those as well. Sorry for the wait but I am working on it.
- 8,438
- 3,292
- 32,327
- 20,219
This thread reminds me of a guy I saw arguing for Multiversal Heinz.
- 32,327
- 20,219
Saying each realm was the size of a universe (They ain't) and using vague af statements to say he could destroy them all.
- 8,438
- 3,292
- Thread starter
- #73
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Assaltwaffle/Overlord:_Fallen_Down_Recalc
Done. Kinda disappointing but it looks like the original calc was inflated.
Done. Kinda disappointing but it looks like the original calc was inflated.
- 8,438
- 3,292
- Thread starter
- #75
Yeah, well probably go with that value, assuming that calc is properly done.
- 7,675
- 1,371
The red line in your scaling image doesn't actually reach the edge of the crater, if you generated an elipse over the crater and measured to the edge of that couldn't you find the entire radius?
- 8,438
- 3,292
- Thread starter
- #77
I tried generating an ellipse. The camera angle prevents it from being realistic. If it was top-down it could be done easily, but trying to ellipse scale it doesn't really work unfortunately.
- 287
- 35
I found this image https://mostlygaming.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/overlord_ep12_035.png?w=379&h=213
Is it any help?
Is it any help?
- 8,438
- 3,292
- Thread starter
- #79
Not really, unfortunately. So, are we agreed to change his tier to 6-C via his Creation calc with a "possibly 6-B" for two Country-destroying statements?
- Status
Similar threads
