Orochi LS upgrade thread

[Tural2004]

In chapter 112 of OPM, Orochi distorts the layers of Earth. And this is a part of his current LS justification. Using the weight values from the current calc, total weight that was moved is around 1.2e22 kilograms (Class Z).

Now two main arguments I have seen against this are

1) It was his tail so it doesn't actually scale to his LS.
2) It was the energy that distorted the layers.

The former argument doesn't make sense. His tail is still a part of him. Therefore he scales. Besides, if that argument made sense, we had to downgrade Orochi to High 6-C and make him "High 6-A with his tail" since the whole feat was done with it.

The second argument is pointless as well. Because

1) Since we already scale Orochi to the potential energy of distorted layers, it is the same thing all over again. We either need to downgrade Orochi to High 6-C since it was the energy that distorted Earth's mantle or upgrade his LS.

2) Even if it was the energy that was pushing the layers, Orochi would still scale since he is the one pulling it. This is basically Newton's third law "F=-F". The more energy pushes the layers, the greater resistance Orochi faces to lift it. It doesn't get simpler than that.

So I suggest upgrading his LS. The characters who scale are Psykorochi, Tatsumaki and Saitama.

 

[Kachon123]

I agree.

 

[Coomandar]

i agree

 

[Emerald]

I agree

 

[Kin201]

This is Energy Absorption feat. If this needs to be counted as an LS feat, then it should be clarified as "Class Z with Energy Absorption". And this scales to nobody.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Agree with OP

 

[Tural2004]

This is Energy Absorption feat. If this needs to be counted as an LS feat, then it should be clarified as "Class Z with Energy Absorption". And this scales to nobody.

It is not like his physicals go up when the feat involves energy absorption. Besides, distorting the layers isn't an absorption feat. Actually absorbing energy is. The feat is done purely by himself with his own strength. And this is not something like "Environmental Destruction" that should be listed separately.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

This is fine.

 

[Damage3245]

This is Energy Absorption feat. If this needs to be counted as an LS feat, then it should be clarified as "Class Z with Energy Absorption". And this scales to nobody.

This seems to make sense to me.

 

[Tural2004]

This seems to make sense to me.

I don't see how. It is not like Orochi gets a boost out of nowhere. And my point in the thread applies to this as well. That would suggest making him "High 6-A via Energy Absorption" which makes no sense.

 

[LordTracer]

This seems fine.

 

[NikHelton]

This makes no sense. Energy pushed the layers apart, but this is not a feat of strength.
Else we can scale any AP feat like LS. Saitama thus has the lift of a billion stars that he has destroyed. And Psykos has LS Class E, since she raised the mainland.

This has already been discussed and rejected before. I don't know why we came back to this

 

[Tural2004]

We indeed don't get an LS value from AP feats but the opposite isn't true. What Orochi did is lifting in a very straightforward manner. He is not shooting energy beams or striking someone.

 

[NikHelton]

This is not a feat of physical strength. He drew energy from the core of the earth and it affected the mantle. You want to give Orochi LS for the fact that his attack affected an object that has mass. But Saitama's punch also affected an object that had mass. The Psykos beam picked up an object having mass. But it doesn't scale them.

You can tell that it scales like it's the preparation for the attack, not the shot itself. But so we have users of natural lightning who moved the clouds before the lightning strike. Do they also need to get LS Class T?

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Disagree FRA

 

[Tural2004]

I am finally free so let's continue.

This is not a feat of physical strength. He drew energy from the core of the earth and it affected the mantle.

What you said is literally a feat of physical strength.

You want to give Orochi LS for the fact that his attack affected an object that has mass

It wasn't an attack but the charge up for it. And this is literally my previous point. Orochi's feat is more of an LS feat than it is an AP feat. It is just that we can get AP values from those. Saitama's serious table flip for instance.

But Saitama's punch also affected an object that had mass. The Psykos beam picked up an object having mass.

False equivalency for the previous reasons. And their attacks were nothing like lifting motion.

But so we have users of natural lightning who moved the clouds before the lightning strike. Do they also need to get LS Class T?

That kind of thing needs to be analyzed case by case. More than often it is a visual effect or can't be used for actual lifting because "magic". It is not comparable to Orochi's situation

 

[NikHelton]

I am finally free so let's continue.

What you said is literally a feat of physical strength

Hah, no. This is the same as what I wrote about Saitama and Psykos. He has never shown to be able to lift objects with his tail. He just drained the energy.

It all looks like a desperate attempt to increase LS for Tatsu and Psykos.

It wasn't an attack but the charge up for it. And this is literally my previous point. Orochi's feat is more of an LS feat than it is an AP feat. It is just that we can get AP values from those. Saitama's serious table flip for instance.

Not every PE feat is an LS feat

False equivalency for the previous reasons. And their attacks were nothing like lifting motion.

Why doesn't Psyrochi have Class Z or E?
She raised the mainland with a laser.
She like Orochi did it with energy lol

 

[Tural2004]

Hah, no. This is the same as what I wrote about Saitama and Psykos

It is not though?

He has never shown to be able to lift objects with his tail. He just drained the energy

Which in turn distorted the layers. It is already mentioned in the thread.

all looks like a desperate attempt to increase LS for Tatsu and Psykos.

At least that is what you perceive. Orochi not being Class Z never made sense to me.

Not every PE feat is an LS feat

Never said that.

Why doesn't Psyrochi have Class Z or E?
She raised the mainland with a laser.
She like Orochi did it with energy

How are these two situations comparable? The whole thing is about how it is done. Psykos shot a beam while Orochi was just lifting energy. The former is a blatant AP feat while the latter is an LS feat. "Raising the mainland" is only a convenient wording. It is just Psykos blasting the land away which is specifically what we don't consider LS feat.

 

[Kachon123]

Bump

 

[Tural2004]

I think this can be applied since two staff members accepted it and Damage seems to half agree. But the pages seem to be locked. And I don't know how to edit them

 

[NikHelton]

This seems to make sense to me.

Does LS due to energy absorption make any sense?

 

[Kachon123]

Does LS due to energy absorption make any sense?

No, because the LS feat in question isn't coming from the absorption of energy. It comes from Orochi's tail displacing the parts of the core.

If you were suggesting 'Class Z with Tail,' that would make more sense, but I don't see why his tail would be any stronger than the rest of his body.

 

[NikHelton]

No, because the LS feat in question isn't coming from the absorption of energy. It comes from Orochi's tail displacing the parts of the core.

If you were suggesting 'Class Z with Tail,' that would make more sense, but I don't see why his tail would be any stronger than the rest of his body.

But the tail pulled the energy, not the mantle. It's unrelated

 

[Kachon123]

But the tail pulled the energy, not the mantle. It's unrelated

The LS doesn't come from the energy or the mantle. You're misunderstanding the feat. Here's how it went:

1. Orochi drives his tail into the dround
2. As the tail goes down, it pushes away part of the mantle that was in it's way (this is where the LS actually comes from)
3. Orochi's tail reaches the core
4. Orochi's tail sucks up energy from the core (this is where you think the LS comes from)
5. Orochi shoots Gaia Cannon

 

[Qawsedf234]

. As the tail goes down, it pushes away part of the mantle that was in it's way (this is where the LS actually comes from)

While it can be, it wouldn't be the value that is on the calc, as Orochi's tail did budge any of the layers, only the ball of thermal energy did. To get a rating you would need to find the tail volume and figure out how much stuff he would be required to push away.

 

[Kachon123]

as Orochi's tail did budge any of the layers, only the ball of thermal energy did

Is this a mistype or am I just confused on what you mean?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Is this a mistype or am I just confused on what you mean?

The mass from the calc, the 1.198472e+22 kilogram number, comes from the bulged area as the thermal energy ball reaches the surface. To get lifting strength you would need to get just what the tail moved.

 

[NikHelton]

Are you serious about saying that Orochi's tail stretches for 6,000 kilometers? It's never been shown

 

[Tural2004]

the ball of thermal energy did

I already explained that. Even if that was the case, the more thermal energy pushes layers aside, the harder it is for Orochi to lift it. I don't know about tail stuff but displaced mass automatically scales to his LS

 

[Qawsedf234]

Are you serious about saying that Orochi's tail stretches for 6,000 kilometers? It's never been shown

He says he's going to burrow to the Earth's core. I don't know what else it could be unless you're implying he can just draw energy from thousands of kilometers away.

the harder it is for Orochi to lift it.

He's not lifting it. The tail reaches the core and the thermal energy is suck up the tail. Its an energy displacement feat rather than a lifting strength feat.

 

[NikHelton]

He says he's going to burrow to the Earth's core. I don't know what else it could be unless you're implying he can just draw energy from thousands of kilometers away.

This is the most logical option. Murata loves large-scale scenes and if Orochi really had limbs of a planetary scale, he would show it. Moreover, in this case, Sage Centipede will look ridiculous

 

[Recon1511]

Bump

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Why are we assuming that this ball, the ball taken directly out of the core that looks exactly like a piece of the core that was clearly shown bending layers of the earth when moved, is just pure heat energy?
anyways why couldn’t we just use the LS of what it’d take to bend the layers like that anyways

 

[Qawsedf234]

when moved, is just pure heat energy?

Because Orochi states that he's drawing energy from the core and not mass and after taking it the Earth didn't lose something like 3% of its total mass from the event.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Because Orochi states that he's drawing energy from the core and not mass

Well he can still get energy from taking a hot piece of earth’s core out regardless

Earth didn't lose something like 3% of its total mass from the event.

Evidence? It’s seems pretty clearly drawn that he literally just took a piece of earth’s core directly out of there

 

[Qawsedf234]

Well he can still get energy from taking a hot piece of earth’s core out regardless

Not when he only mentions drawing out energy and there's no evidence he can consume a couple Quintillion tons of matter and perfectly convert it to energy.

Evidence?

The core reforms without issue and none of Blast's crew mentions that something has gone wrong, which is important since when Garou destabilized the core they all freaked out.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Not when he only mentions drawing out energy and there's no evidence he can consume a couple Quintillion tons of matter and perfectly convert it to energy.

Well this isn’t really an argument given that the fact that he did it would be the evidence in this case.

The core reforms without issue and none of Blast's crew mentions that something has gone wrong, which is important since when Garou destabilized the core they all freaked out.

Which just means that Garou did more damage (also, they never specifically mention the core when talking about Garou)
and besides, taking that much energy out of the earth’s core likely wouldn’t go unnoticed by Blast either going by this criteria, especially since orochi literally caused a planetary earthquake too.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

And this still doesn’t explain how pure energy would result in the layers of earth actually physically bending like that in the direction that the heat was being pulled

 

[Qawsedf234]

Well this isn’t really an argument given that the fact that he did it would be the evidence in this case.

He directly states he will only draw energy and the core reforms back with no issues as seen later on. Orochi didn't drag mass from the core, but the thermal/vague energy the core has.

besides, taking that much energy out of the earth’s core likely wouldn’t go unnoticed by Blast either going by this criteria, especially since orochi literally caused a planetary earthquake too.

Blast only interferes if something is a God-related threat. It's why he came for the cube, fixed the prison, and came to fight Garou. Orochi's actions didn't do anything that would call for his intervention.

And this still doesn’t explain how pure energy would result in the layers of earth actually physically bending like that in the direction that the heat was being pulled

Energy in OPM has been shown to have the ability to produce kinetic energy before. Choze's blast physically moved Suiryu and the stadium and Boros' CSRC caused a planetary earthquake to name a couple examples.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

He directly states he will only draw energy and the core reforms back with no issues as seen later on. Orochi didn't drag mass from the core, but the thermal/vague energy the core has.

Reforms? We don’t see earth’s core again after that I thought.

Energy in OPM has been shown to have the ability to produce kinetic energy before. Choze's blast physically moved Suiryu and the stadium and Boros' CSRC caused a planetary earthquake to name a couple examples.

And that is completely irrelevant, since natural energy from earth’s core can’t be compared to the physics of Choze’s divine energy balls or Boros’ alien laser.
And even then, if he was just lifting energy that had such properties, then we could calculate the LS of it bending the layers regardless of that, so the point doesn’t really change much.