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OPM Tier 7 revisions
- Thread starter Qawsedf234
- Start date
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- Tags
- genos gouketsu one-punch man
- Status
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- #42
So since almost everyone is on board with the suggested changes, it should be okay to apply.
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Sounds fine to me.
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Rover not scaling over 7-A seems a bit iffy to me tho
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@MrDrProfessorPatricio; unfortunately Rover hasn't done anything worthy of being rated 7-A / scaled to 7-A.
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I meant to say Qaws I don't know how I messed that upSchnee One said:
Just to be sure though, what's the AP of the 7Bs in OPM
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Also didnt Saitama said to Suiryu that it all took 1 punch to beat Gouketsu while Rover survive a punch?
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Saitama also said that he went easy on Rover.
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Using Saitama's punches for scaling is unreliable anyways
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Well I understand the reasoning it's just that I have mixed feelings regarding this. But oh well nothing we can do about it
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anyone have any idea for the full scaling?
imo,It should be like
[High demon level]Choze<(slightly stronger)Suiryu<= [Weak dragon level] Bakuzan = featless dragon levels + the less impressive cadres = S-classes stated to be able to defeat Dragons<<<<(one-shots) Bang with abandonment (=?) Psykos (held him back with TK)= Stronger cadres = [High Dragon level]
Bakuzan<<<<(stomps/ 7-A AP)Gouketsu<<<<(stomps/6-C AP)Orochi
imo,It should be like
[High demon level]Choze<(slightly stronger)Suiryu<= [Weak dragon level] Bakuzan = featless dragon levels + the less impressive cadres = S-classes stated to be able to defeat Dragons<<<<(one-shots) Bang with abandonment (=?) Psykos (held him back with TK)= Stronger cadres = [High Dragon level]
Bakuzan<<<<(stomps/ 7-A AP)Gouketsu<<<<(stomps/6-C AP)Orochi
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- Thread starter
- #54
Looks about right
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Unfortunately, Matthew is shifting Burden of Proof (you can't prove the Cadres don't scale to Goketsu), an argumentative fallacy. His point relies on some superfluous ideas of scaling, and applying a calc from Goketsu to people who in no reliable way scale to him as Qaw and myself are quick to point out.Antvasima said:
There really isn't much at all that should scale the other Cadres to Goketsu beyond "I believe they should narratively"
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I thought Gokuetsu was a Cadres?
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I'm not shifting the burden of proof, is that the overhyping of Gouketsu that goes on in this wiki is laughable. No other place with a One Punch Man community thinks Gouketsu is the strongest Cadre because he's done absolutely nothing to earn that title.
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>because he's done absolutely nothing to earn that title.
He's got better feats and a calc to support that.
Rover and Elder Centipeded lack that.
Rover is the only one with a possibility since it at least interacted with Saitama and survived a hit, but you can't really scale that.
He's got better feats and a calc to support that.
Rover and Elder Centipeded lack that.
Rover is the only one with a possibility since it at least interacted with Saitama and survived a hit, but you can't really scale that.
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Rover (And Evil Natural Water) are noted by Gyoro Gyoro to be the hardest Cadres to control and contain due to their animalistic nature and incredible raw power. Gouketsu is never noted as being particularly hard to contain or much of a threat to herself or the association.
Speaking of which... The Monster Association is structured entirely around, and functions entirely through power. The strongest monsters are at the tops, and the only requirement to be a Cadre is to have overwhelming power. That's it. Which is why Hellfire Flame and Gale Wind weren't Cadres despite being Dragons in their monsters states, they just weren't strong enough (See how easily Brave Giant took them down, and how Flashy Flash one-shot both of them at once). If Bakuzan had joined the Monster Association, I have no doubt in my mind he wouldn't have become a Cadre either despite being a Dragon. Gouketsu was able to block his attacks with his pinky effortlessly.
The impression I get from the narrative is that the Monster Association Cadres aren't just a handful of Dragon level monsters, but rather they are the most powerful Dragon level Monsters in the series period. Specially people like Overgrown Rover who's so strong that even in a weakened state the combined effort of Bang and Bomb's strongest attack did zero damage to him.
And also... I'm nearly 100% certain that Gyoro Gyoro is more powerful than the Cadres, seeing as she ranks above them and exerts authority over them. Going by how the Monster Association works, if she was weaker than them she'd just get killed.
Speaking of which... The Monster Association is structured entirely around, and functions entirely through power. The strongest monsters are at the tops, and the only requirement to be a Cadre is to have overwhelming power. That's it. Which is why Hellfire Flame and Gale Wind weren't Cadres despite being Dragons in their monsters states, they just weren't strong enough (See how easily Brave Giant took them down, and how Flashy Flash one-shot both of them at once). If Bakuzan had joined the Monster Association, I have no doubt in my mind he wouldn't have become a Cadre either despite being a Dragon. Gouketsu was able to block his attacks with his pinky effortlessly.
The impression I get from the narrative is that the Monster Association Cadres aren't just a handful of Dragon level monsters, but rather they are the most powerful Dragon level Monsters in the series period. Specially people like Overgrown Rover who's so strong that even in a weakened state the combined effort of Bang and Bomb's strongest attack did zero damage to him.
And also... I'm nearly 100% certain that Gyoro Gyoro is more powerful than the Cadres, seeing as she ranks above them and exerts authority over them. Going by how the Monster Association works, if she was weaker than them she'd just get killed.
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> Rover (And Evil Natural Water) are noted by Gyoro Gyoro to be the hardest Cadres to control and contain due to their animalistic nature and incredible raw power.
Source on the statements here?
> And also... I'm nearly 100% certain that Gyoro Gyoro is more powerful than the Cadres, seeing as she ranks above them and exerts authority over them. Going by how the Monster Association works, if she was weaker than them she'd just get killed.
The one who was at the top of the Monster Association (publicly) is Monster King Orochi. Gyoro Gyoro was just the strategist.
Source on the statements here?
> And also... I'm nearly 100% certain that Gyoro Gyoro is more powerful than the Cadres, seeing as she ranks above them and exerts authority over them. Going by how the Monster Association works, if she was weaker than them she'd just get killed.
The one who was at the top of the Monster Association (publicly) is Monster King Orochi. Gyoro Gyoro was just the strategist.
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> Gouketsu is never noted as being particularly hard to contain or much of a threat to herself or the association.
Gouketsu was never a concern for Gyro Gyro, as Gouketsu's intelligence kept him reasonable.
Gouketsu was never a concern for Gyro Gyro, as Gouketsu's intelligence kept him reasonable.
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Regarding Matt's points:
They're strong and animalistic, that's why they can't be controlled, cause they can't just be given orders. Gouketsu is one of the calmest and most reasonable monsters we've seen in the series, he even goes on a rant to Bakuzan about how you can't let power get to your head because there are always stronger monsters to keep you in check. The fact that he does this right after talking about how much stronger Orochi is than him makes it pretty obvious that Orochi is what's keeping him in check.
Gyoro Gyoro is at the top because she built Orochi up, and therefore has him under her thumb.
Them all being stronger than most dragons just means they're stronger than most dragons. That's like saying all athletes are equally strong because they're stronger than most humans.
@Everyone else
I'm gonna reiterate this since no one addressed this:
In chapter 74 Psykos tells Gouketsu that if he doesn't leave S class heroes could start "storming the place", and he might suffer a few broken bones. So the implication is that a large group of S class heroes working together would lose to Gouketsu, but could deal some noteworthy damage.
Based on that it might be alright to scale the top S class with an "at most" rating.
They're strong and animalistic, that's why they can't be controlled, cause they can't just be given orders. Gouketsu is one of the calmest and most reasonable monsters we've seen in the series, he even goes on a rant to Bakuzan about how you can't let power get to your head because there are always stronger monsters to keep you in check. The fact that he does this right after talking about how much stronger Orochi is than him makes it pretty obvious that Orochi is what's keeping him in check.
Gyoro Gyoro is at the top because she built Orochi up, and therefore has him under her thumb.
Them all being stronger than most dragons just means they're stronger than most dragons. That's like saying all athletes are equally strong because they're stronger than most humans.
@Everyone else
I'm gonna reiterate this since no one addressed this:
In chapter 74 Psykos tells Gouketsu that if he doesn't leave S class heroes could start "storming the place", and he might suffer a few broken bones. So the implication is that a large group of S class heroes working together would lose to Gouketsu, but could deal some noteworthy damage.
Based on that it might be alright to scale the top S class with an "at most" rating.
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Gyoro Gyoro is the Association's defacto second in command even publicly and none of the Cadres know she created Orochi. They respect and accept her position outright.
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They don't have to know she created them, they simply need to acknowledge the fact that she commands him. Orochi's power alone is more than enough to keep every cadre in check even if Gyoro was the weakest of them all (I'm not suggesting that she actually is, please keep that in mind)
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No, they don't at all acknowledge that she commands him. They think she's his second in command. Gyoro Gyoro feigns subservience to Orochi in public.
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That's great for the low welp who she could obviously crush without a second thought regardless, but her legion of cadres would obviously be clued into their power dynamic. Gyoro never exactly made it a secret that she had almost complete control of Orochi and could summon him to her side at any given moment.
Gyoro doesn't have to be more powerful to command them, they all joined her because they shared a common cause. Its not like they don't question her authority at all to begin with, just look at how BS and HE interact with her towards the end of the arc in the webcomic.
Gyoro doesn't have to be more powerful to command them, they all joined her because they shared a common cause. Its not like they don't question her authority at all to begin with, just look at how BS and HE interact with her towards the end of the arc in the webcomic.
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7-A is still being debated but can the high 7-C changes be instated?
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Go ahead.
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