One-Punch Man revision

[Blahblah9755]

Currently we rank sealed Boros as large mountain level in durability, for tanking a super casual punch from Saitama.

At first I agreed with this, however after thinking about this more, there are two problems with this.

1. Saitama destroying the meteor is a much better super casual feat than destroying the bullet from Boros' ship. The feat is at minimum large island level, as the meteor was initially a 6 on the Torino scale, which is at the very least 100,000 megatons of tnt or the low end of large island level. However the chance of the meteor actually hitting was thought to be close to zero, meaning it's likely above the minimum required energy. Also, Genos, someone who seems to be more reliable than the hero's association, said that the meteor would destroy multiple cities, meaning it would have leveled multiple of the (large) country sized land masses that people refer to as cities in the OPM verse, so Saitama super casual busting of the meteor would most likely be around that level. Also King was thought to be capable of killing Tatsumaki by the other heroes, implying that the monsters that Saitama killed super-casually, and King was given credit for were around large island level.

2. Saitama's super casual punches aren't consistent. Sealed Boros isn't the only one to have tanked a super casual punch from Saitama, and scaling all the characters who did to him would be very wrong. Just to give a few examples, hammerhead, tank top tiger, and base Garou all survived super casual blows from Saitama, Genos was unharmed by point blank air pressure from a super casual punch from Saitama, and Beefcake and Geryuganshoop's bodies remained intact after super casual attacks from Saitama. And these characters (except maybe Geryuganshoop) definitely shouldn't have durability at the level of Tatsumaki's best feat.

Also, if we were scaling things between casual attacks, Genos and Sonic both survived attacks from casual Tatsumaki, and Tatsumaki's anime meteor feat and even her bullet feat were done pretty casually.

However the scaling for sealed Boros may be salvageable for several reasons

First, the Hero's association HQ was unharmed by the initial bullet barrage from Dark Matter's ship, only losing power (likely because it was linked to outside power sources like almost every modern building)

The HQ was built by Metal Knight, and it is unlikely that he would use a weaker material on his battle-oriented robots than on the building. Also it's not like he only had a limited supply of it, as when he rebuilt the base it was pretty much entirely out of the same material.

Also, the Sky King and his minions were perfectly capable of harming the base, and they were all one shot by one of Boros' minions, Melzalgald.

Melzalgald was sent out to protect the ship from, and deal with anyone powerful enough to survive the initial barrage, meaning he's likely comparable in power to the bullets.

Melzalgald was implied to be capable of surviving artillery bombardment from the ship if he was careful, as he was planning to have Geryuganshoop bombard the area even though he knew that he couldn't get away until the S-Class heroes were dealt with or distracted.

To take down the S-Class heroes they thought it was necessary to use concentrated fire from the ship, as opposed to just regular fire.

Iaian, second in A-Class and Atomic Samurai's student was durable enough to survive the initial bullet barrage uninjured, and would have been one shot if Melzalgald had landed a solid blow on him.

Although he may have been boasting, Metal Bat threatened to destroy the Hero's Association HQ.

Metal Knight was thought to be strong enough to damage Dark Matter's ship, which the bullet Saitama kicked back barely harmed

Tank Top Master could also damage the ship a bit by throwing rubble at it

Geryuganshoop could launch pebbles through the ship easily

The S-Class heroes in general were thought to be capable of damaging the ship if it weren't for their limited range.

So there's a lot of stuff pointing to S-Class (minus King and maybe Child Emperor), some Demon, and Dragon level threats being comparable to the individual bullets, or small island level.

So based on the Dark Matter invasion mini arc alone, I think these characters should be small island level:

Melzalgald: AP and Durability (was sent to protect the ship and kill any threats strong to survive the initial barrage of Boros' ship)

Groribas: AP and Durability (Geryuganshoop said he was their strongest warrior)

Geryuganshoop: Likely AP and Durability (should be comparable to the other two)

Sealed Lord Boros: AP and Durability (far superior to his subordinates)

Bang: AP and Durability (can harm Melzalgald bare handed, was able to deflect Melzalgald's blows and even tank a direct hit from him, when even the slightest blow was thought to be enough to take down the rest of the S-Class heroes and Iaian)

Pri-Pri-Prisoner: AP and Durability (can harm Melzalgald bare handed, and was able to catch and hold back his tendrils)

Metal Bat: AP and his bat's durability, possibly his durability as well (can harm Melzalgald with his bat, threatened to destroy the HA base)

Iaian: Durability, possibly AP (survived the initial barrage of Boros' ship, can damage Melzalgald, though, as Atomic's student, he may be atom slashing)

Atomic Samurai: Durability, possibly AP (superior to Iaian, can harm Melzalgald, though was he was likely atom slashing)

Metal Knight: Possibly AP, likely Durability (his robots should be made of materials comparable to the HA base, was thought to be capable of damaging Dark Matter's ship)

Tank Top Master: possibly AP and Durability (capable of slightly harming Dark Matter's ship, to an unknown extent, by throwing rubble at it)

Sky King and his minions: AP (can harm the HA base)

I'm not completely sure who else scales based on the rest of the series, but it probably includes most of S-Class, Dragon level threats, some Demon level threats, Sonic, and Sweet Mask.

Also, on a side note, Metal Knight likely knew that the meteor mentioned earlier was a 6 on the Torino scale when he sent out his robot, since the HA knew that, (but he wouldn't have known it's full power till he got there, as it took Genos' analysis to realize that it was a threat to multiple cities, not just city Z like the HA had thought) but he still thought of it as a worthy test subject for his new weapons, meaning he likely thought they were capable of bringing down something on the low end of Torino scale class 6, or in other words he would have thought that they were individually around island level+. Although anyone being this close to Tatsumaki's level seems inconsistent to me.

Also one other thing: Saitama outsmarted Geryuganshoop, by lying to him, despite the fact that Geryuganshoop is supposed to be quite smart, so it should probably be added to his intelligence that he's a decent enough liar to trick intelligent individuals.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Okay majority of these I agree with, especially the part with Saitama outsmarting Geryguanshoop. However there are some parts that I can't quite agree with. But in the meantime I'll gather my thoughts and let others share theirs. I look froward to seeing where this goes.

And would you consider using the speed feat of how Atomic Samurai 'reacted' to the shells raining on them?

 

[Blahblah9755]

Nah, at best they moved a few inches in the time the bullets moved tens of meters, calcing anything from that would be calc stacking, since the speed of the bullets is a calced value.

Maybe it could be perception speed for them, so anyone too fast for those 4 to see could be scaled, similar to what solidified DBZ and pre-DBS BoG as ftl, but I'm not sure.

 

[Alakabamm]

1. The feat is at minimum large island level, as the meteor was initially a 6 on the Torino scale, which is at the very least 100,000 megatons of tnt or the low end of large island level. However the chance of the meteor actually hitting was thought to be close to zero, meaning it's likely above the minimum required energy.

2. Also, Genos, someone who seems to be more reliable than the hero's association, said that the meteor would destroy multiple cities, meaning it would have leveled multiple of the (large) country sized land masses that people refer to as cities in the OPM verse, so Saitama super casual busting of the meteor would most likely be around that level.

3. Saitama's super casual punches aren't consistent... st to give a few examples, hammerhead, tank top tiger, and base Garou all survived super casual blows from Saitama, Genos was unharmed by point blank air pressure from a super casual punch from Saitama, and Beefcake and Geryuganshoop's bodies remained intact after super casual attacks from Saitama. And these characters (except maybe Geryuganshoop) definitely shouldn't have durability at the level of Tatsumaki's best feat.

4. Melzalgald was sent out to protect the ship from, and deal with anyone powerful enough to survive the initial barrage, meaning he's likely comparable in power to the bullets.

5. Iaian, second in A-Class and Atomic Samurai's student was durable enough to survive the initial bullet barrage uninjured.

6. Although he may have been boasting, Metal Bat threatened to destroy the Hero's Association HQ.

7. Metal Knight was thought to be strong enough to damage Dark Matter's ship, which the bullet Saitama kicked back barely harmed

8. Tank Top Master could also damage the ship a bit by throwing rubble at it

9. Geryuganshoop could launch pebbles through the ship easily

10. The S-Class heroes in general were thought to be capable of damaging the ship if it weren't for their limited range.

Also one other thing: Saitama outsmarted Geryuganshoop, by lying to him, despite the fact that Geryuganshoop is supposed to be quite smart, so it should probably be added to his intelligence that he's a decent enough liar to trick intelligent individuals.

Yea, no, there is a lot wrong with this. I disagree with basically everything. Let's go on a point by point basis.

1. I don't recall this being said in the manga - if it was stated in the anime, it would still be irrelevant because manga > anime statements always. So unless it was in the manga it is unusable.

2. First off, there is no confirmation of the sizes of the cities ever really. Second off, Genos is not the word of god so we have no reason to trust a statement like that if it wasn't shown, regardless if Saitama is already ridiculously above that level or not.

3. Saitama has stated multiple times he doesn't kill humans in both versions of the manga. He held back on Hammerhead (confirmed), Garou (confirmed) and obviously had no reason to kill tank top tiger. The villains you mentioned were still killed; it is irrelevant if their bodies were destroyed or not. Boros TANKED the first hit. Not one other person you mention did.

4. This scaling is wacky in many ways. First off, just because a building is built with a similar material, does not mean that it is comparable to something else built with that material. Second off, we have no real indication that the headquarters was struck directly + there is the issue of surface area (where a gigantic bullet will deal less energy damage per area than a small attack). So scaling anyone to that building is wrong.

5. Iaian was never indicated to be hit directly by the barrage + there are other survivors (are woman and children now large island level?) + he could have easily have been in the hero building lobby.

6. Statements are untrustworthy unless proven otherwise, again.

7. The bullets Tatsu launched back were more than good enough to harm the ship significantly. Plus there is the issue of KE, in that Saitama could have lightly kicked it and thus not imparted enough energy. So no inconsistencies at all.

8. Never shown that he damaged the ship significantly.

9. This is ridiculous enough that I don't really need to respond. Again, surface area.

10. Another statement, except this time it was never actually stated. So even worse.

And Saitama is generally simple-minded - just tricking someone like that was 1) a gag and 2) not indicative that he was "smarter than some 1000 IQ psychic alien monster." That would be ridiculous extrapolation.

 

[Alakabamm]

Just checked the manga, Genos didn't even appear to say that.

http://i1.**********.com/onepunch-man/24/onepunch-man-3917087.jpg

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Alakabamm seems to make sense.

 

[Blahblah9755]

1. I thought we considered the anime of Onepunch-Man canon because One was heavily involved in it, which is why we used the anime timeframe for the moon jump.

Also there seem to be large parts of the series missing and misordered from **********, ***********, and other sites that still let you read OPM,for example the chapter that was used to calc the bullet speed and KE, or the scene where the sky King dies being placed after city A's destruction, do you know of a site that doesn't have that problem?

2. If the anime is canon then the meteor episode is where the size of the cities comes from.

There have also been several images in the Murata manga depicting Z city along with the curvature of the Earth, and other cities should be comparable in size.

http://www.**********.com/onepunch-man/26/32

http://www.**********.com/onepunch-man/26/33

http://www.**********.com/onepunch-man/26/38

http://www.**********.com/onepunch-man/26/41

3. The point I was trying to make is that the upgrade implies that all of Saitama's casual attacks are exactly the same power-wise, when it's clearly been shown that they aren't. In fact Saitama's constantly disappointed about how enemies can't even survive his casual punches, why would he not hold back more on something he could possibly have fun fighting than on an inanimate object?

4. Your 4th response didn't respond to what was labeled as 4 in the quote.

But anyway the building survived the explosions caused by the bullets hitting the ground near it unharmed

5. http://www.**********.com/onepunch-man/39/8

http://www.**********.com/onepunch-man/39/9

He wasn't in the HA base, but I guess he may not have been directly hit, but he was under the ship so he was still within the radius of the explosions, likely f om multiple of the bullets.

6. Yeah, I didn't think much of that point anyway. I even pointed out that it was probably untrustworthy

7. The bullets Tatsu launched back did so much damage because of the large number, on the sides where individual bullets had hit they did comparatively small amounts of damage. When Saitama kicked the bullet it went flying away at high speeds, I highly doubt it had much less KE than when it was fired.

8, 9, and 10 were all things I just sort of threw in at the end

11. I'm not saying Saitama's as smart as Geryuganshoop at all, just that he can be a decent liar when he wants/needs.

Also, Melzalgald was still intending to take a concentrated barrage from the ship while fighting the 4 S-class heroes

 

[Alakabamm]

1. Not at all if they include things which are not seriously depicted in the manga.

2. Those images do NOT depict Z city in any light such as the curvature of the world + actual world shots show us that the entire planet is not even close to being covered by cities.

3. Because they are human. This is a canon statement. He holds back on humans. Not monsters. Humans. He doesn't kill humans.

4. I relabeled everything in your quote because it is a gigantic mess. I had no choice. And again, as I said, we never a) saw it survive a DIRECT hit b) surface area matters (not responded to in the LEAST)

5. Again, are woman and children large island level? There are other survivors.

7. No, the bullets Tatsumaki launched back were put back in a short timeframe and had comparable speed (by the calculation itself). We never had a timeframe for Saitama. Furthermore, they hardly did "small amounts of damage" -the entire ship was rocked and the explosions disabled the cannons in the first place.

Melzalgald has Regenerationn and again never was shown to take a direct hit, like Iaian.

 

[Blahblah9755]

1. Why do we use Boros' planet busting statement then? The one in the manga only said the surface of the planet, and in the webcomic it never happened. And the moon jump didn't happen in the webcomic either, and had no timeframe in the manga. The manga and anime are both secondary sources that One gave input on, I don't see why we should treat them differently. Also Boros' armor only survives the blow from Saitama in the anime, and it defeats the purpose of his sealed durability if the thing that seals him is destroyed.

2. Those images show the city with a curved horizon, and nothing else to cause the curve. There are similar images for A city, here:

http://m.*************/manga/onepunch_man/c031.2/6.html

http://m.*************/manga/onepunch_man/c034.7/8.html

http://m.*************/manga/onepunch_man/c035.2/10.html

And here to a lesser degree:

http://m.*************/manga/onepunch_man/c034/21.html

http://m.*************/manga/onepunch_man/c034.5/2.html

http://m.*************/manga/onepunch_man/c034.7/19.html

http://m.*************/manga/onepunch_man/c035.2/6.html

http://m.*************/manga/onepunch_man/c035.2/7.html

http://m.*************/manga/onepunch_man/c035.2/16.html

http://m.*************/manga/onepunch_man/c036.2/8.html

Here it is in B-city:

http://m.*************/manga/onepunch_man/c003/21.html

Even in the webcomic there's a panel like that:

http://www.*********.co/manga/onepunch_man_one/c040/15.html

But the new Hero's association HQ that was constructed in A cities place shows it the best:

http://m.*************/manga/onepunch_man/c036.2/9.html

3. It's also canon that Saitama doesn't want to win all his battles in one punch and that he uses different amounts of force for different enemies. And even against Boros' full power he didn't go all out. Everything Saitama's done was casual, there's no reason to assume that different casual feats were all the same.

4. What you relabeled to number 4 was about Melzalgald. What you replied to in number 4 was about the HA base. That's what I was trying to point out. Anyway, yeah I concede to that point.

5. There weren't in the webcomic, the primary canon.

7. Now that I managed to find a better source for the manga than **********, I retract what I said about Saitama's bullet kick not doing much. But anyways, the lone bullets from Tatsumaki that hit the side of the ship caused relatively small explosions, and did little damage. It was the large groups of bullets that hit the bottom that destroyed their guns and shook the whole ship.

http://m.*************/manga/onepunch_man/c034.5/4.html

Melzalgald's marbles/hearts still had to survive the combined energy of dozens of those bullets hitting him or within a few tens of meters of him. And he and Geryuganshoop, the people who should know the strength of those bullets the best, were both confident he could do it.

 

[Alakabamm]

1. Because the databook was written by ONE partially and also there are multiple statements which all corroborate to some degree. It doesn't just not exist in one version.

2. A curved horizon does not indicate the city takes up a good portion of the planet. There is a Murata shot of the planet and cities do not take up large portions of the world in it.

3. Going all out doesn't mean much though? And he only holds back against humans. Not monsters. Humans. There are no manga instances of him holding back, besides the set amount he normally does, against anything but a human. Again, this was STATED in the manga.

5. We consider Murata's version to be primary canon as well + ONE does not draw to the same detail that Murata does.

7. She still shook the ship and that ship is gigantic anyways. What you consider a little damage in this instance is quite a large amount.

Melzalgald never said he intended to survive a direct hit however.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I agree with Alakabamm's arguments in this.

 

[Antvasima]

I also agree with Alakabamm.

 

[Blahblah9755]

Sorry to bring this backup after so long, I've had a ton of issues going on irl, and haven't been able to respond.

1. My bad then

2. What are the requirements for something to show the curvature of the Earth, since I clearly misunderstood, is there a page on that anywhere? Also the Murata shot of the planet is black and white and heavily obscured by clouds, and it's not like you can see buildings from space, if it had large areas covered by cities, it would be very difficult to tell. Also, in the shot there are visible lines that seem to indicate some degree of structure over large areas of land.

5. Why though? Both the Murata version, and the anime are secondary sources that One gave large amounts of input on, why is one of them considered more canon than another?

About Melzalgald, those bullets are massive, and were going to be concentrated in a very small area, avoiding a direct hit would be almost impossible, and even if he did, the explosions would still hit him point blank, meaning h'd still get hit with similar KE.

 

[LordXcano]

@Alaka On point 2, even if the cities themselves are not the size of countries their borders lie that far out, which would mean the meteor's shockwave would have to go such a distance to threaten several cities.

 

[Blahblah9755]

@LordXcano, the border size was only shown in the anime (although even in the manga the cities are meant to be spread out throughout the continent), and so was Genos' statement of the meteor's shockwave reaching them. Part of what I'm trying to argue that the anime should have the same canonicity as the Murata adaptation, as both are secondary sources that One gave extensive input on.