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One Piece Yonkou Commanders upgrade

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LordGinSama

LordGinSama

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I'm gonna be proposing a slight upgrade for our stronger Yonkou Commanders ( I.E Jack, Cracker Katakuri etc.)


Currently they are scaling to Gear Fourth Luffy Bound-Man who's 6.9 Teratons. All of the Yonkou Commanders are stronger than this version of Gear Fourth and we see this with Cracker whenever he was fighting Luffy. Once Cracker got serious he was dominating Luffy and the only way Luffy was able to win the fight was with the aid of Nami and running away for 11 hours. I think we can say that if Luffy didn't have Nami with him Cracker would have killed him. That being said i think the stronger Yonkou Commanders should be Baseline 6-B via being superior to characters like Luffy whilst in Bound-Man who are 6.9 Teratons in both AP and durability. The Yonkou's and Admirals would still be stronger as they are scaling above 9 Teraton's and can further their stats with Busoshoku.
 
Just because you are roughly stronger than something doesnt mean you jump an entire tier by default. It also needs to be said that none of them can no-sell G4.
 
Roughly stronger? I wouldn't say that. They are definitely stronger than Luffy's 6.9 Teratons which is borderline baseline 6-B. It's the highest end of Low 6-B+ and being superior to Bound-Man should justify and minor tier jump.
 
Just because Cracker could have defeated Luffy on his own doesn't mean he's a whole tier above him. His attack did no damage to Gear 4: Tankman which proves he's not heavily stronger than Luffy.
 
Well Gear Fourth Tank-Man is Luffy's most durable form. Just like how Bound-Man is his strongest form AP wise and Snake-Man is his fastest. But if people disagree with the upgrades than that's fine.
 
@Knight Im sick and tired of this One Piece wank Omfg.....stop


Joking aside i completely agree with this.
 
i agree yonkou commanders should be 6-B but i disagree about Cracker>Boundman

we didnt exactly know how the fight went. There was no clear statement either. All we know only "Nami poured down rain and Luffy ate the biscuit for 11 hours". There was no detail about how Cracker handle Boundman and why he failed to kill Luffy when Boundman form ran out

i will acknowledge Cracker>Boundman if there was any statement or scenes where Cracker beat Boundman like Katakuri did

And dont forget, current Luffy had massive improvement in both strength and kenbushoku haki throughout the fight against Katakuri. He'll high-diff Cracker in one-on-one rematch
 
I suppose that this seems to make sense, but you should ask Camero for input.
 
Cracker never dominated Luffy lol we barely even saw them fight, cracker would beat G4 Luffy in a 1v1 but thats due to G4s time limit, he isn't superior to G4 he can outlast G4
 
Cracker dominated g4 luffy. fym? his biscuit soldiers even held off kong organ. the anime even made it to where cracker was bitch slapping away g4 luffy attacks. (ik y'all don't do anime but still)
 
He didn't "dominate" G4 Luffy, the anime is non canon so that's irrelevant, his biscuit soldiers were getting destroyed he just kept making new ones. There's legit like 2-3 pages of cracker vs G4 Luffy and the only thing cracker does is cut Luffys arm via a surprise attack, how is a "single" hit "dominating" ?
 
Big difference between getting "pressured" and getting "dominated" cracker not really trying is something you've just assumed for some weird reason, he was obviously trying
 
Has anybody asked CinCameron20 for input?
 
"Stronger than Gear 4th" and even "Equal" isn't supported. Sure, Cracker and Katakuri would've beaten Luffy under normal 1v1 circumstances, but it was made clear that Bound Man Luffy was overpowering both of them in terms of physical ability.

Cracker's soldiers were crumbled by singular punches, and his busoshoku (which was noted as being the toughest Luffy had encountered) barely penetrated Luffy's arm. All he had to do was buy himself time and opening using his infinite number of biscuit soldiers, which would have worked if Nami didn't just make them a non-factor for when Luffy reverted back to Base.

Hell, Cracker got through the 11 hours without taking a single hit from Gear 4th Luffy, and when he did (from Tank-Man: Full Version), he was KO'd instantly. You can't tell me he equal or stronger than Gear 4th Bound Man with what is provided. Unlike Doflamingo or Katakuri, Cracker was One-shot.

Now, in the case of Katakuri, he also doesn't match (let alone exceed) Gear 4th Luffy in terms of physical strength and suffered considerable injury from the initial bashing he got when he lost control of his Kenbunshoku Haki.

Luffy stated and proved that even with his Busoshoku and Mochi enhancements to his body, Katakuri is still physically inferior to Gear 4th. Katakuri only could dish out some damage to Gear 4th Luffy with Awakening + Busoshoku Haki attacks, which is hardly any more than what Doflamingo did in the past.

All Katakuri had to do was use his pre-cognition to shift his body and avoid all of Luffy's punches, then proceed to continuously build up Luffy's injuries with his Muso Donut attacks, which honestly didn't do much in terms of damage to begin with.

The only form Katakuri actually matched blow for blow was Gear 4th: Snake-Man, which I still doubt is equal to Bound Man in physical power, in fact, it definitely concentrates more on speed and homing rather than physical power.

It's still quite clear that Gear 4th Bound-Man > Katakuri and Cracker in Attack Potency and Durability. The only reason either of them could gain the edge over Luffy is because of their powers serving as a nullifier for Luffy's attacks by either acting as a literal shield (Biscuit Soldiers), or negating all offenses from the start (Katakuri's Body-Control complimented by his pre-cognition).

Katakuri is close in power to Bound Man, but you can't convince me that he is equal or stronger by any margin when the contrary is supported. The moment Luffy closed the gap between their pre-cognative powers, he gained the edge due to his speed and narrowly defeated Katakuri, who could not perform the same tactics from earlier in their fight since Luffy could now see his movements properly.

That said, when factoring in Busoshoku Haki, characters scaling to ~6.9 TT to Gear 4th Luffy are already technically "Country level", but Statistics Amplification does not factor into a character's Attack Potency/Durability, especially since Haki's influence on their power and defense is undefined.

TLDR: Cracker and Katakuri are weaker than Bound-Man, just used powers to negate Luffy's superior physical ability.
 
Also, can someone explain to me what exactly this is that Cracker employs (in terms of wiki Powers and Abilities)?

Seems like some form of Fear inducement, but he's actually affecting Randolph and the Homies with it.
 
I agree with Cameron.

I think that the fear inducement was less an actual power and more just intended to be natural fear through cowardice along with comedic effect.
 
Just a note (since I agree with almost everything you said), the translation for Cracker possessing the toughest Haki that Luffy has ever faced is a mistranslation. The official translation just has something along the lines of "This guy's Haki is so tough!"
 
Eh, Zangiri Mochi is probably equal to Luffy's Durability in Gear 4th seeing as how both characters KO'd eachother, but in the case of Luffy, it's questionable if the attack was enough to seriously hurt him seeing as how 25 minutes had passed since 12:05 (when he used Snakeman) and that his Gear 4th was confirmed to only last about 20+ minutes during Dressrosa before he became incapacitated for 10 minutes (in both cases).
 
Luffy has definitely improved since Dressrosa. Previously when his Gear 4th expired he was limp and unable to run away on his own, but after it experied in the battle against Katakuri he was still able to run away and fight to an extent (just not using Haki).
 
Well, we don't know how long he used Gear 4th initially. Could have been a few minutes before he realized "Okay, time to get away"... in the case of Dressrosa and the finale of his fight with Katakuri, he most likely pushed himself to his limits.
 
Hmm, I interpreted it as Luffy reaching the time limit as he was running away mid-flight. It didn't seem to me like he consciously deactivated Gear 4th at that moment.
 
Well, the same did happen when he punched Big Mom, he deflates the same way regardless of if he only stayed active for seconds, or his limit. We have no actual way of knowing if Katakuri held off Bound Man for 25 minutes before Luffy ran off.

It could have just been a relatively short battle before Luffy ran off. Katakuri mentioned that "You are out of time" and Luffy immediately assumed that was referring to Gear 4th, which confused Katakuri, who was merely suggesting that Luffy would eventually lose.
 
But if anyone still thinks Katakuri is = or even > Bound Man Luffy, I recommend you look at their fight agai.

Luffy's individual hits were sending Katakuri flying and causing him to cough up blood while also leaving visible external bleeding. When Katakuri hit Luffy with Strength Mochi, sure, he sent Luffy flying, but there was no implication that Luffy was seriously hurt.

At best, Katakuri's Awakening would be comparable but not equal to Bound Man, as all he was seen capable of doing was send Luffy back without dealing any visible damage, and deflect his punches, though he did land a punch on an area that was not covered with Haki and made Luffy cough up blood. Either way, he was inconsistently causing damage to Luffy. I wouldn't even consider him his equal in power, he's at the very least ever so slightly inferior.
 
@CinCameron20

So what are the conclusions here?
 
None of the commanders get an upgrade, basically.

At the very best, Katakuri has went even with Gear 4th forms, and Cracker was never seen actually taking Bound Man head-on and could barely penetrate his arm with a two-armed haki infused sword-swing. They stay where they are at.
 
wouldn't Cracker cutting through luffy's haki layer still be a big feat since doffy just bounce off? luffy's g4 harmonized with his df making it strechy and hard. doffy bounced off and Cracker cut through which looks like a really deep cut. then we have katakuri making luffy cough up blood with block mocha, a bunt attack. and Katakuri has been shown to be even with g4th forms since he did significant damage to both bound man and snakeman. he wasn't overwhelmed in speed nor strength, and it looks more like he was pressuring g4. only reason why cracker got 1 shotted is because he went through his own biscuit soldiers, the woods, mountains, buildings and g4 tank man's 6-b attack. it would take a few 6-b attacks to actually K.O them because I don't see them going down by one.:^\
 
@Yoh - I already went through all of this.

Doflamingo without his Awakening only has an AP of "At least Small Country level", not Small Country+. He scales far above his Black Knight and Base Luffy. He doesn't scale to Gear 4th because he couldn't hurt him with physical strikes and normal threads.

Cracker only ever cut into Luffy's arm with a haki infused sword-strike, and went in a couple inches despite having applied a two-handed swing on his out-stretched arm. At best, that would scale Cracker close to Gear 4th Luffy's Durability... but he did this with Haki (which isn't scaled to AP and Dura because it is Statistics Amplification) and when Luffy dropped his guard, so you can't really argue that Cracker is = or > Bound Man Luffy in physical power.

Cracker was one-shot... the resulted impacts into his biscuit soldiers and flying acrossed the island was BECAUSE of Tank-Man. I don't see why you think there was another factor when it was all a result from that single attack.

I already mentioned that Katakuri at best would be even with Gear 4th, and no, he has not been shown going even with Bound Man--only Snake Man. Against Bound Man, he was getting absolutely destroyed despite his Busoshoku defense, and thus required his Kenbunshoku Haki + Body Control to nullify all of Luffy's incoming attacks by dodging them. And again, he only dealt actual damage to Gear 4th Luffy with Haki-infused strikes, particularly his Strength Mochi, which is an Awakening attack.

Snake Man is speed-focused and there is no implication that it is dead-even with Bound Man in power.

Your last statement is not valid:

  • King Kong Gun One-shot Doflamingo, who ended up being unconscious for x amount of days.
  • Canon-Ball One-shot Cracker (and several Biscuit Soldiers), who didn't even have a scratch on him at the time, so his durability definitely can't scale
  • King Cobra KO'd Katakuri, who could only stand up for a mere moment before passing out.
The only ones who even took hits from Bound Man Luffy were Doflamingo and Katakuri. Cracker never once took a hit. and Luffy's strongest attacks displayed were the deciding factor in each of these engagements.

@Ant - I think that Cracker's Durability would need to be downgraded to just "At least Small Country level" due to him never displaying his current durability and actually being one-shot by Luffy. If this is okay, the thread can be closed
 
might not be even with bound man in power but it deals great damage since it is leopard kung fu & attacks pressure points etc. but then again, i'll stop and let Ant close since I can't provide any more evidence to back me up.
 
@Cameron

That should probably be fine. Feel free to make the change.

I will close this thread then.
 
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