One Piece - Whitebeard 6-B Calc

[Captain_Torch]

A bit late, but here are my two cents about this:

This calc used the same method narutoforums used for Whitebeard's Quakes, which was debunked by DontTalk a while ago due to assumed continental plate movements:

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1876315

The calculation makes the assumption that Whitebeard's Tsunami was caused by the movement of the said continental plates , which obviously yields huge results. This is basically a lower feat using the same denied method.

 

[Damage3245]

@Torch; so this whole thing is based on a calc method that was debunked?

 

[Captain_Torch]

@Damage Yes, as far as I can tell. The method itself isn't necessarily wrong, but most of the energy comes from the movement of the tectonic plate, rather than the tsunami itself. It is fine to use for natural disasters, but it is more arguable when fiction comes to play.

 

[The_Calaca]

The idea that this doesn't work because he doesn't mess with continental plates it's wrong. We have seen him tilting the island on massive plates before, and the powers works as an earthquake in all the sense.

 

[FullMetalLamps]

Obviously that could be PIS and gag.

Don't see how that situation was either of those.

Aokiji clearly let Luffy and the others off easy.

 

[Tetsucabrah]

Obviously that could be PIS and gag.

I don't think it was a gag, iirc it was a pretty serious moment.

PIS maybe but like Fullmetallamp said but Aokiji definitely let them off easy.

 

[CinCameron20]

@Damage/Tetsu - defrosting someone who is frozen solid--including muscles and blood--would never be recovered that quickly from simply putting them in warm water. In fact, it'd be quite impossible. Whether the ice is "harder" to melt or not doesn't really matter since her entire body was put below freezing for several minutes. The fact that she or Luffy not once showed any signs of brain damage due to the lack of oxygen to their brains for such a time-frame, and on top of the physical trauma from their heart stopping (since Chopper confirmed this later) shows that this is a highly unrealistic situation in the first place.

• Neither Luffy nor Robin showed any signs of Brain Hypoxia/Cerebral Hypoxia despite the conditions they were in, so I think we can forgive them having the ice melt over a short period of time since it's already quite an impossible scenario.
  • Not to mention many other symptoms they'd suffer from this.

 

[Tetsucabrah]

That might just be down to the superhuman physicality in the One Piece universe.

I also don't think biology and physics work there in the way they would in real life.

 

[Captain_Torch]

The idea that this doesn't work because he doesn't mess with continental plates it's wrong. We have seen him tilting the island on massive plates before, and the powers works as an earthquake in all the sense.

Then start a thread about this. Because as it stands, the method is currently debunked by DontTalk .

I think that Whitebeard moving tectonic plates(which are that big) seems absurd, but I'm not going to start a debate over this. However if we are to accept Whitebeard moving them, then we might consider accepting Whitebeard's continental feat from Narutoforums, which was not accepted due to "Whitebeard moving tectonic plates".

 

[Schnee_One]

The continental feat is probably an outlier.

 

[Damage3245]

Whitebeard certainly hasn't moved an entire tectonic plate; he's only tilted the island and surrounding ocean.

 

[The_Calaca]

That calc is for a quake done through a massive distance which is currently unfounded given that the distance it's an unknown.

This relies on the tsunami's power based on the quake that generated it.

I also don't see where DT debunked the calc itself. He agreed first and then explained how the calc works. He even said that using the waves is the only reasonable way to determine the power, and the calc is based on that only.

 

[CinCameron20]

Guys, the original (6-A) calc was denied because there were a large amount of assumptions--the biggest one being the assumed distance the quake traveled to reach the island where the 4.0 magnitude quakes were felt (planet size and distance to Sabaody were inaccurate af).

 

[Tetsucabrah]

So this calc is still valid?

 

[CinCameron20]

The calculation assumes that the sea-floor was thrusted upward (or at least greatly disturbed--either way they are generally caused by earthquakes) to make the tsunami, which makes sense since anything else is not supported due to WB's ability generating quakes. It's also doing the calculation based on the size of the tsunami created, not a particular distance traveled, and the formula used lines up with what is suggested.

Overall, there's nothing wrong with the current calculation that I can immediately see, and since it seems to be accepted by most of the calculation staff, and that there's no inherit flaws such as assumed distance/time-frame/etc used, the calc is fine imo.

 

[CinCameron20]

Also, in regards to scaling, considering x high tier characters may possibly see 6-C through certain feats (that need analyzing by calc grp), I seriously doubt 6-B is an outlier considering Kaido one-shot Luffy and Big Mom no-sold a serious strike from a transformed Queen, both currently High 7-A+, and depending on the results of some feats, might end up around 6-C.

Whitebeard grew old, sure, but he was still considered the strongest man, and on the same level as the likes of the other Yonko, probably even stronger despite his physical condition waning due to age.

(But i say that the value should remain 7 Teratons, and NOT doubled since 1) WB did this with a questionable amount of time, and 2) it's likely not something he can do in live combat without a reprieve, and 3) It's questionably 2 separate attacks anyways since he channeled the quake on both sides)

 

[Dr.Fix]

@Cin didn't you used to say that Kuzan>Duffy was a likelihood, but that you didn't see a huge differance between them? Wouldn't 1000 tiems stronger constitute an insane differance?

 

[CinCameron20]

@Fix - Stats here are not exactly set in stone, especially since we do not know the actual power of each individual and can only speculate, and also because the series is no where near completion, and the characters under question have not been seen in a serious fight more than once.

In the case of Doflamingo vs Aokiji, Doffy needed to kill Smoker to silence him, but Aokiji was not going to let that happen. Doflamingo likely would have fought Aokiji in order to have his way. Unless he's an idiot, there should not be an insurmountable gap between them judging from how things went down. He left simply because he didn't want to take unnecessary risks, especially since he still had to retrieve Caesar, and had to deal with both the StrawHats and Law. Even if he succeeded and killed Smoker, Aokiji would not let him leave without at least serious injury regardless. He'd be in poor shape while his enemy + an Admiral are heading straight for Dressrosa. It's understandable why he decided to leave, but if he seriously was like .1% as strong as Aokiji, but still went to kill Smoker while completely disadvantaged, he's either stupid, or there's a problem here that we can't solve (yet).

• Basically, even if we assumed Doflamingo was far weaker, he had other matters to attend to and would prefer being in tip top condition instead of fighting Aokiji and possibly losing a limb, or even his life if it came to that.

Also, one of the feats in question for potentially increasing the high tiers is Doflamingo's strings straight up tanking the meteorite shower brought down by Issho (a single one being 6-C). But either way, if we assumed Doffy's threads scaling to base-line 6-C, and scaled that to him, Aokiji would be 550~600x stronger anyways.

If we had to, scaling Doflamingo's threads directly to the meteorite would work since 1) this doesn't shove the top tiers and high tiers into the same number value anymore, 2) the threads were undamaged, even if each logically didn't come into contact with the full force, and 3) Fujitora, who would be High 7-A as of right now, even with countless other pushing the cage, could only momentarily stop it. He couldn't even damage the cage with Haki.

Only change that would be made is that all High 7-A+ characters are 6-C. Luffy's Base-G3 would stay exactly the same. Poor Fujitora stays High 7-A.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

I'm the only one who think that admirals should be 6-B? Akainu literally stops Whitebeard's attack with one leg[1] and he withstood Enraged Whitebeard's attacks.[2]

 

[The_Calaca]

Low 6-B is a good start for them. The three OG Admirals blocked one of the quakes. Shirohige was already weakened at the time he smacked Sakazuki. He also needed just two hits to put him down.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

Low 6-B is a good start for them. The three OG Admirals blocked one of the quakes. Shirohige was already weakened at the time he smacked Sakazuki. He also needed just two hits to put him down.

But it was a surprise attack...

 

[Dr.Fix]

Low 6-B is a good start for them. The three OG Admirals blocked one of the quakes. Shirohige was already weakened at the time he smacked Sakazuki. He also needed just two hits to put him down.

But it was a surprise attack...

Implying Akainu doesn't even have basic observation haki . . . I do not think so.

 

[VioIeLFC]

Observation Haki and Haki in general is inconsistently displayed during Marineford, it was a surprise attack. Plus Akainu didn't get "put down" he returns in a very good condition like a few chapters later lol, he deals more damage to Whitebeard with his two attacks then vice versa

 

[Schnee_One]

I can see an argument for Akainu and Aokiji being 6B, though I'm neutral

Kizaru IDK if he should scale

 

[The_Calaca]

I'm neutral as well. I see Low 6-B as a good enough rating at the moment.

 

[FullMetalLamps]

Kizaru should scale for simply being an admiral among them. Plus, he dealt with Rayleigh who we list as low 6-B.

 

[Damage3245]

@FullMetalLamps; the main reason that Rayleigh is Low 6-B to begin with is his fight with Kizaru.

 

[RexofLM]

Kizaru also contributed to blocking that shockwave as well as holding whitebeards bisento down (one foot like akainu) and pierced him with a beam. Kizaru shoyld scale

 

[CinCameron20]

If anything, they should all be "At least Low 6-B, Possibly 6-B"

Low 6-B to contributing to fully stopping an attack (divided by 3 of WB's AP)

Possibly 6-B because Akainu and Kizaru have both been seen managing to pose some threat to Whitebeard in terms of physical power (both stopping his attack with a single leg)--Aokiji scaling to Akainu. But these feats are quite inconsistent since Akainu is more consistently seen being overpowered in a physical contest (and Kizaru is only seen fighting WB for like 1 page).

You can be 1/3 as strong as somebody and still hold them back by yourself, especially if you have leverage (which both Kizaru and Akainu had, but i wont be nitpicking)

The damage inflicted on WB can solely be attributed to all 3 having some form of Dura negation with some/most of their attacks. Akainu's Magma melting WB's body to mush, Aokiji didn't hurt WB from what we've seen anyways, Kizaru with a beam to the chest.

 

[Damage3245]

I feel like "At least Low 6-B" would be good enough for them for now.

 

[The_Calaca]

I'm okay with any of the options. Tho if Dura Negation is argued for them, At least Low 6-B would be better.

 

[AstralKing7]

I agree with Cin for the possible. Two admirals clashed with with WB

 

[Schnee_One]

I can concede on possibly

 

[Dr.Fix]

Kizaru should scale for simply being an admiral among them. Plus, he dealt with Rayleigh who we list as low 6-B.

That's circular reasoning as Ray get's low 6-B via Kizaru we cannot scale kizaru higher based on that.

Also the admiral rank would mean Issho also scales which makes even less sense.

Personally I'm still against any of them being low 6-B. All of the admirals (Including Issho since rank has been brough up as a factor) have many more feats scaling them to high tiers then they do Top Tiers.

It still doesn't make sense to assume the quake they blocked was 6-B when its target was a Yonko commander (who's 7,000 times weaker currently).

Option 1) Ace and the others low 6-b via their many feas

Option 2) Whitebeard held back for obvious reasons, so the high tiers including the admirlas do not scale

Option 3) Whitebeard did not hold back, knowing Ace could tank it, the admirals succeded. None of them are higher though and Whitebeard's 6-B is an outlier.

I don't see a fourth option that doesn't have glaring contradictions.

 

[The_Calaca]

To be honest, the current ratings are far from done. I can see some YC being upgraded based on their feats.

Saying that the admirals joined forces to block an attack weak enough to not kill a High 7-A is also ridiculous. They scaling to the High Tiers also contradicts the whole war where they kept up with Shirohige despite being below him.

 

[Dr.Fix]

@Calaca

1) calling something ridiculous is not a valid point. Have to at least give a because

2) So you're in favour of upgrading the high tiers to low-6-B then?

3) does Js25 have an automatic like subscribed to your posts? like how is that so fast? ;-)

 

[Schnee_One]

I fail to see how 1 and 3 are meaningful at all?

 

[The_Calaca]

I'm pretty sure you know what I mean with ridiculous.

I'm in favour of upgrading whoever has to be upgraded. Like I said, the profiles are bad rated right now (and I blame myself for some of them happening during the upgrade) and I want to discuss about each one of them.

Jealous ovo?

 

[CinCameron20]

Small question regarding scaling a particular character (I'd rather just post it here instead of making an entire thread for it):

Right now, should we scale Law's blade as having "Large Mountain level" durability? It took attacks from Doflamingo several times, and should logically have higher durability than his body (one attack dismembering him when he didn't use Haki to defend himself, and a bullet thread going straight through his shoulder while his blade consistently tanked hits from Goshikito. He coated his arms to block a single attack from Doffy, but that's it. Anything else completely pierced his body. Can name 3+ attacks that have done this, lol).

Cases like Zoro have him tanking attacks w/ both his body and swords quite equally, but Law has been seen being severely injured by Doflamingo, unless he blocks or deflects with his blade, so I believe it's fair to assume that Law's blade has far higher durability than himself.

 

[The_Calaca]

Seems correct to me.