One Piece - Swordsmen Desire CRT

[LordGinSama]

One Piece CRT's coming out like Hot Cakes lol but this one is Relatively minor and only effects a handful of characters.


Swordsmens Desire & Durability Negation

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Swordsmen from One Piece should be given some form of Durability Negation, limited or not isn't up to me but I'd like to see what everyone else thinks. Going by old man Hygo's words and Zoro's Dojo master there's something called a "Swordsmans desire." in the verse, where a Swordsman can choose what he wants to cut and what they don't want to cut. A seasoned swordsmen can cut through steel effortlessly but if they don't wish to cut a piece of paper or a feather they won't. After realizing this a Swordsman is capable of cutting through anything if he so wishes, but is also capable of cutting nothing if they so wish it, and to quote Zoro's teacher.

"The principle of Swordsmanship is to protect what one wishes to protect and cut what he wishes to cut."

This is consistent with what we're told in Wano, a Swordsman is capable of cutting through anything as long as he wishes to cut it and knows the material. For instance, Mihawk is also stated to be able to cut anything apart.

His sword slash encompasses elements of hardness and softness and there is nothing he cannot cut in two

Possible Counter arguments.

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"But Mihawk couldn't cut Jozu!" This is irrelevant and doesn't work as a counter argument as Mihawk wasn't attempting to cut Diamonds but rather flesh and ice. A Swordsman needs to be willing to cut the material with that in mind to successfully cut it, Mihawk at no point wanted to cut Jozu.


"But Zoro couldn't cut the Birdcage."

This is irrelevant and contributes nothing to the discussion, Zoro wasn't attempting to cut or destroy the Birdcage, they just needed to push back against it, not destroy or damage the strings, so this doesn't work.

More Evidence with Daz Bones

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Mihawk also needed to want to cut steel against Daz Bones to actually harm him, Daz Bones is made of steel and took a High 7-A strike from Mihawk and Mihawk needed to WANT to cut steel when attacking him to successfully cut Daz.

Haki

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Advanced Haki in the form of Goken has also shown Durability Negation, so this concept isn't entirely inconsistent and has more support than it does anti feats. Hyo also doesn't make any distinction between Goken and regular Haki, and while he does differentiate his and Luffy's, there's a window for swordsmen to use Haki in that way.



Conclusion

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With all of these information given to use i feel like Durability Negation or at least Limited Durability Negation could work for notable One Piece swordsmen. (Swordsmen can cut anything they wish and whatever they don't wish. As long as a Swordsman is thinking of cutting apart a certain material they can do so successfully.) and Ikki Kurogane has Durability Negation for the same reason more or less.

 

[Eminiteable]

I agree not sure about limited durability negation though, I feel someone like pre-timeskip Zoro should have the limited version while those with mastery such as Mihawk, Post-timeskip Zoro, Hyogoro should have just standard Durability Negation.

 

[KingTempest]

One Piece CRT's coming out like Hot Cakes lol

My bad

In all honesty, I felt kinda skeptical about it. But when I saw the Daz Bones example it made more sense.

Shouldn't this be for emission Haki in general? Hyo explains it while using regular emission on his hands.

 

[Rocker1189]

These statements literally have steel as the benchmark for "anything". As for using Ikki as an example he in fact does not have dura negation for any similar reasons, 1 is for being capable of causing internal damage and another is for being capable of cutting the bonds in between objects. With not a lot of feats and even an anti-feat that you brought up I cant agree with that. For these reasons I don't agree.

 

[KingTempest]

Advanced Armament Haki is shown to negate durability. That's a plus

 

[Damage3245]

At the most we don't have enough evidence to say that swordsmen in general can bypass durability altogether.

Also, being able to cut through almost any material available (steel, wood, stone, etc.) is nowhere near the same thing as being able to cut anything no matter how tough/hard it is.

For example how would a swordsman in One Piece know they'd be able to cut through a Moon-level durability boulder?

 

[LordGinSama]

These statements literally have steel as the benchmark for "anything".

inverse rules, for starters cutting steel in One Piece isn't one of sheer Strength but rather Strength and skill. In One Piece you can be as strong as you want but you won't be cutting steel without the proper skill. In One Piece they just need to "will" for something to be cut. For instance, if they will to cut flesh they will but if they don't will to cut let's say a piece of paper they won't. If they want to cut steel they will do so effortlessly, like a hot knife through butter.

As for using Ikki as an example he in fact does not have dura negation for any similar reasons, 1 is for being capable of causing internal damage and another is for being capable of cutting the bonds in between objects.

I'm not referring to those attacks for starters, Ikki has shown the ability to slash apart steel using a piece of paper simply because he wanted to. that particular feat was given Durability Negation so my bad for not specifying which one i meant.

With not a lot of feats and even an anti-feat that you brought up I cant agree with that. For these reasons I don't agree.

Anti feat? What Anti feat? There is no Anti Feat, I literally debunked that in the OP.

 

[LordGinSama]

At the most we don't have enough evidence to say that swordsmen in general can bypass durability altogether.

Not in general, I meant peeps like Mihawk and Zoro, not just any swordsmen.

Also, being able to cut through almost any material available (steel, wood, stone, etc.) is nowhere near the same thing as being able to cut anything no matter how tough/hard it is.

The hardness is irrelevant, as long as the swordsmen knows the material that they want to cut they'll cut it.

For example how would a swordsman in One Piece know they'd be able to cut through a Moon-level durability boulder?

Well first of all this seems like an attempt to strawman but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. They'd need to know whatever the "boulder" is actually composed of, not to mention 5-C is a clear NLF.

 

[Rocker1189]

Ikki has shown the ability to slash apart steel using a piece of paper simply because he wanted to

That is not nearly the same thing though he used a piece of paper to do so that is far more evidence than what is shown here. Also I don't think he was given dura negation for that unless I have misread the profile. Even if I think that is good enough evidence in itself.

 

[Damage3245]

The hardness is irrelevant, as long as the swordsmen knows the material that they want to cut they'll cut it.

That seems like a pretty clear NLF to me.

Well first of all this seems like an attempt to strawman but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. They'd need to know whatever the "boulder" is actually composed of, not to mention 5-C is a clear NLF.

It's not intended to be a strawman. It's just that as pointed out their benchmark for being amazed at something being cut is "Cutting steel". I don't think it's right to extrapolate that they can negate the durability of everything based on so little feats.

 

[LordGinSama]

That is not nearly the same thing though he used a piece of paper to do so that is far more evidence than what is shown here.

Both still revolve around the same concept, both characters simply need to "will" to cut. And the piece of paper is irrelevant, the paper is doing the cutting, the cutting is happening because Ikki wants to cut it. Same thing FOR OP swordsmen.

That seems like a pretty clear NLF to me.

It's only a NLF if you make it an NLF, such as your last example with the 5-C comparison. They quite clearly wouldn't be able to cut apart anything out of their pay grade, but another comparable character made of flesh? And if they wish to cut the material, in this case flesh of a comparable opponent they'll do so effortlessly.

It's not intended to be a strawman. It's just that as pointed out their benchmark for being amazed at something being cut is "Cutting steel". I don't think it's right to extrapolate that they can negate the durability of everything based on so little feats.

"Steel" again in One Piece isn't a feat of strength, you can be as strong as you want but that doesn't mean you'll cut through steel effortlessly like how Zoro can, and it's a given they can't negate the Durability of "everything.", only whatever is reasonable. We already know the Swordsmen rule to be true so I don't see the issue with Limited or Minor Durability Negation for notable Swordsmen like Zoro.

 

[Rocker1189]

And the piece of paper is irrelevant

The piece of paper is extremely relevent what do you mean? It is a showing that regardless of what he is using he is capable of cutting anything. If he only had the will statement without the showing then just like with this one it would just sound like an NLF.

 

[LordGinSama]

The piece of paper is extremely relevent what do you mean? It is a showing that regardless of what he is using he is capable of cutting anything. If he only had the will statement without the showing then just like with this one it would jut sound like an NLF.

Ikki could have used anything and it would have had the same results, again the paper is irrelevant to the feat, as you said "It is a showing that regardless of what he's using he is capable of cutting anything."


Literally in your own words the paper is irrelevant due to Ikki wanting to cut. Not to mention he only cut steel, not "everything" like you claim, I can easily dismiss this as a feat of AP but I'm not. OP show the same thing, Zoro cut apart a house with a butter knife, they can attack paper without cutting it, etc. No Sword Style is also thing where Zoro can cut shit without a sword simply because he wants to.



Anyway I have work now so I'll come back to this later.

 

[Rocker1189]

Ikki could have used anything and it would have had the same results, again the paper is irrelevant to the feat, as you said "It is a showing that regardless of what he's using he is capable of cutting anything."


Literally in your own words the paper is irrelevant due to Ikki wanting to cut. Not to mention he only cut steel, not "everything" like you claim, I can easily dismiss this as a feat of AP but I'm not. OP show the same thing, Zoro cut apart a house with a butter knife, they can attack paper without cutting it, etc.

I think you misunderstand me when I say relevant, I know that for the feat the paper is irrelevant but for evidence of dura negation it is extremely relevant.

I dont mean "literally" everything cmon...

You should have linked zoro's butter knife house feat in the op as part of your evidence because that actually changes things a bit. I can agree with limited based on that.

 

[Eminiteable]

I think you misunderstand me when I say relevant, I know that for the feat the paper is irrelevant but for evidence of dura negation it is extremely relevant.

I dont mean "literally" everything cmon...

You should have linked zoro's butter knife house feat in the op as part of your evidence because that actually changes things a bit. I can agree with limited based on that.

The seppuku knife cutting a building:

Zoro being able to cut with no swords:

 

[Rocker1189]

Make the images a bit smaller please they are a bit too in your face lol, the seppuku knife feat is not really a butter knife....but I guess limited could work with that, the swordless style..is he cutting people? Its hard to tell, also there is a weird energy so it is hard to count that.

 

[Eminiteable]

Make the images a bit smaller please they are a bit too in your face lol, the seppuku knife feat is not really a butter knife....but I guess limited could work with that, the swordless style..is he cutting people? Its hard to tell, also there is a weird energy so it is hard to count that.

The energy is just a harmless aura that appears when Zoro uses named attacks, he cut his opponent without swords.

 

[Rocker1189]

The energy is just a harmless aura that appears when Zoro uses named attacks, he cut his opponent without swords.

I mean I know that he is cutting with the swords but in that image I cant see him cutting someone, if you could point it out much appreciated.

 

[Damage3245]

It doesn't look like he cut that guy. Blood doesn't automatically mean a cut.

And the Seppuku Knife... That's just an impressive AP feat, not him negating the durability of the house. Mihawk can also cut Zoro with a tiny sword, can't he? It's still a weapon that can inflict cutting damage. I'd need more than just that to say he's negating durability.

 

[Eminiteable]

See the blood splatter in the top left panel.

 

[Rocker1189]

See the blood splatter in the top left panel.

gonna be honest we cant even tell who was cut and we also cant tell whether it was a cut or just an injury.

 

[Zackra1799]

See the blood splatter in the top left panel.

Using your hands to cut something like a blade is just body control

 

[Eminiteable]

Using your hands to cut something like a blade is just body control

He can't actually turn his hands into blades.

 

[LordGinSama]

Using your hands to cut something like a blade is just body control

No it's not? Musashi from Baki says no, going on break soon so gimme time to reply.

 

[Zackra1799]

Being able to attack in a way the body doesn't physically allow is skill based body control

• Advanced control - allows you to not only manage the vital functions of the body and increase its capabilities but also to do what is impossible for an ordinary person. For example, to fully control the hair (to lengthen them to increase strength, turned into a needle, etc.), manipulate the blood (and other body fluids), lengthening nails or bones (including changing the shape of the bones). At this level of ownership of the body can also, to some extent change its shape.

Given that your hands don't have sharp edges on them, using your hands like swords is body control

 

[Rocker1189]

Being able to attack in a way the body doesn't physically allow is skill based body control

• Advanced control - allows you to not only manage the vital functions of the body and increase its capabilities but also to do what is impossible for an ordinary person. For example, to fully control the hair (to lengthen them to increase strength, turned into a needle, etc.), manipulate the blood (and other body fluids), lengthening nails or bones (including changing the shape of the bones). At this level of ownership of the body can also, to some extent change its shape.

Given that your hands don't have sharp edges on them, using your hands like swords is body control

But it would have to be shown that he reshaped his hands to do that and we know that Zoro cant do that.

 

[Rocker1189]

That being said I dont see Zoro cutting someone in that scan, I think limited or possibly works though using the will thing and maybe the building cutting...(not being a butter knife as described kinda lowers it somewhat)

 

[Zackra1799]

But it would have to be shown that he reshaped his hands to do that and we know that Zoro cant do that.

Being able to use your hands as a blade is physically impossible regardless if you have durability negation or not. it's just skill based body control.

 

[Rocker1189]

Being able to use your hands as a blade is physically impossible regardless if you have durability negation or not. it's just skill based body control.

Its not body control in any sense, yeah its skill based but he is not forming his body to do anything also using impossible to describe something happening in fiction doesnt make much sense...

 

[LordGinSama]

I can settle for a "Possible" Limited Durability Negation, and to shed more light on the feats.


Zoro's House feat is him applying the same concept, he's working with a blade with a length much, much smaller than what he's cutting, and he's still able to slash through the entire house despite the length of the blade being that small. (A butter knife and Senpoku blade are roughly the same size with a butter knife actually having more length.) and that was without a ranged attack which increase Zoro's AoE.


Zoro's No Sword Style is implied to have a cutting ability, he can still use his Tatsumaki attacks which cut, and we can see that it drew blood from his opponent (There's no reason why his unarmed attacks would cause them to spit up blood whenever his sword attacks couldn't.)

 

[Rocker1189]

I am fine with LordGin's latest suggestion I still dont think the blood shown there is enough to say he cut someone but the rest are fine.

 

[Damage3245]

and that was without a ranged attack which increase Zoro's AoE.

I question Zoro "not using a ranged attack" there. It definitely looks like a ranged attack to me.

Zoro's No Sword Style is implied to have a cutting ability, he can still use his Tatsumaki attacks which cut, and we can see that it drew blood from his opponent (There's no reason why his unarmed attacks would cause them to spit up blood whenever his sword attacks couldn't.)

I don't agree. He doesn't look like he got cut, and drawing blood doesn't imply a slice either.

 

[LordGinSama]

I question Zoro "not using a ranged attack" there. It definitely looks like a ranged attack to me.

That wasn't a ranged attack, otherwise you'd see the blast of wind / air slash. Not only that but Zoro literally just stood up and simply slashed, he had no reason to use a ranged slash.

I don't agree. He doesn't look like he got cut, and drawing blood doesn't imply a slice either.

I don't care if you don't agree or not to be perfectly frank. You do this argument from disbelief nonsense a lot, Zoro used an unarmed attack and slashed his opponent, it's not like Zoro punched him either but that's irrelevant to the other points.


Scrutinizing stuff is fine, but there's a sense of reason you should be using. Not just "I don't agree with that interpretation." Literally every chance you get.

 

[Damage3245]

That wasn't a ranged attack, otherwise you'd see the blast of wind / air slash. Not only that but Zoro literally just stood up and simply slashed, he had no reason to use a ranged slash.

To me, it looks like the ranged slash goes straight through the building and the guy in front of Zoro. If Zoro just negated his durability, wouldn't the guy be in two pieces? Why would he only be slightly cut instead of fully cut?

I don't care if you don't agree or not to be perfectly frank.

I don't care that you don't care.

I need more evidence of Zoro slashing him than "there's blood on the panel".

 

[LordGinSama]

To me, it looks like the ranged slash goes straight through the building and the guy in front of Zoro. If Zoro just negated his durability, wouldn't the guy be in two pieces? Why would he only be slightly cut instead of fully cut?

Again, don't care what you think i care what actually happens, and in this case a ranged attack inherently wasn't used or we'd see the air slash as Oda always draws it, we see no such thing happening. And no, not all Durability Negation works in that fashion.

I don't care that you don't care.

5 year old comment, nice coming from a Admin.

I need more evidence of Zoro slashing him than "there's blood on the panel".

The fact that it's literally not a punch (I.E not a blunt attack.), is a Tatsumaki variant that slashes and his sword strikes literally didn't cause them to cough up blood either.

 

[Damage3245]

5 year old comment, nice coming from a Admin.

You don't like you own words being used against you?

 

[StrawHatArslan]

I agree with lordgin. You can’t just say “I don’t agree” and expect yourself to be in the correct.

 

[Eminiteable]

I don't think it's a ranged attack, usually Zoro with ranged attacks have a air slash shown at the point of impact (see 1080 pound cannon against Pica) meanwhile physical blows don't and we only see the impact of what is cut (see Daisen Sekai against Pica).

 

[Damage3245]

I agree with lordgin. You can’t just say “I don’t agree” and expect yourself to be in the correct.

I asked for proof that it was a slashing attack, and I was given insufficient evidence from my point of view.

Don't know how much more I can elaborate on the issue than that.

 

[Rocker1189]

Tbh while I do agree with LordGin's suggestion I also agree with damage here on that scene, just blood splatter is not enough to say that he cut him we dont even know where the blood is coming from and it looks like Zoro threw him at the other big dude rather than cutting him.