one piece speed downgrade

[Avaritia_603]

The problem i have with op being ftl is contingent upon all the laser feats, its safe to say most or all feats to my knowledge come from these kind of feats within the verse, but the problem comes from the lasers not being photonic, in the manga most of said lasers blow up upon impact with anything which is fine as lasers irl that are powerful enough can blow up small holes in things like metal, wood or whatever can absorb the light, so theoretically with a laser with high enough watts it would be able to cause explosions ( which would be hard to prove by itself but whatever ), my problem lies with what it leaves out, a high watt laser irl will ignite air at the focal point, now in one piece with the amount of watts required to cause the massive explosions that they do they would essentially ignite they air everywhere and cause massive explosions not just at the contact point of a solid.

Another point is with kizaru, since hes basically the pinnacle of light attacks in op debunking his light should have the most effect, in this panel kizaru says hes accelerating while in his light movement form, not only does light not accelerate but it cannot because it is massless, as light the moment it comes into existence is traveling at the sol.

If the two above are true then this statement not only looses credibility but it could also be in reference to the speed of his light, I don't deny that his light does have some properties of light but not enough to make them light speed.

 

[Avaritia_603]

Bump

 

[Avaritia_603]

BUMP

 

[Damage3245]

Don't bump unless more than 24 hours have passed since the last post.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

The problem i have with op being ftl is contingent upon all the laser feats, its safe to say most or all feats to my knowledge come from these kind of feats within the verse, but the problem comes from the lasers not being photonic, in the manga most of said lasers blow up upon impact with anything which is fine as lasers irl that are powerful enough can blow up small holes in things like metal, wood or whatever can absorb the light, so theoretically with a laser with high enough watts it would be able to cause explosions ( which would be hard to prove by itself but whatever ), my problem lies with what it leaves out, a high watt laser irl will ignite air at the focal point, now in one piece with the amount of watts required to cause the massive explosions that they do they would essentially ignite they air everywhere and cause massive explosions not just at the contact point of a solid.

Another point is with kizaru, since hes basically the pinnacle of light attacks in op debunking his light should have the most effect, in this panel kizaru says hes accelerating while in his light movement form, not only does light not accelerate but it cannot because it is massless, as light the moment it comes into existence is traveling at the sol.

If the two above are true then this statement not only looses credibility but it could also be in reference to the speed of his light, I don't deny that his light does have some properties of light but not enough to make them light speed.

One piece is fiction, that is why it works inverse, where magma can even burn flames just because it's a superior DF

he problem comes from the lasers not being photonic

It's stated that his light move at the speed of light multiple times, it doesn't need to be proven that it's photonic for his powers to be light speed

Another point is with kizaru, since hes basically the pinnacle of light attacks in op debunking his light should have the most effect

No, the same pinnacle your talking about is the same generated by the Pacifista's...

くまの強靭な肉体に加え、黄猿の攻撃力も再現! 事件のたびに実験体が送り込まれ、功績を残している。

In addition to the Kuma's tough physique, Kizaru's attack power is also reproduced! Experimental subjects are sent in for each incident, achieving great results.

in this panel kizaru says hes accelerating while in his light movement form, not only does light not accelerate but it cannot because it is massless, as light the moment it comes into existence is traveling at the sol.

Which we see happen all the time when he's traveling at light speed, only using his base devil fruit power

He then uses his own power to continually accelerate himself faster, the devil fruit itself doesn't move faster than light, it's the user himself is that is capable of doing it

 

[KingTempest]

On top of that, regarding "not being photonic", the lasers are blatantly comprised of electromagnetic energy, which is lightspeed by default.

And all the statements of Kizaru's blatant lightspeed really smack this. It doesn't matter the criteria if it's stated to be lightspeed. If it's stated to be lightspeed, it can be full of mass, it can be cold, it could be a brick wall, but if it's stated to be lightspeed then it immediately works.

 

[Avaritia_603]

Don't bump unless more than 24 hours have passed since the last post.

where is this in the rules

 

[Avaritia_603]

One piece is fiction, that is why it works inverse, where magma can even burn flames just because it's a superior DF

It's stated that his light move at the speed of light multiple times, it doesn't need to be proven that it's photonic for his powers to be light speed

No, the same pinnacle your talking about is the same generated by the Pacifista's...


Which we see happen all the time when he's traveling at light speed, only using his base devil fruit power

He then uses his own power to continually accelerate himself faster, the devil fruit itself doesn't move faster than light, it's the user himself is that is capable of doing it

all of the op calcs i looked at that were sol or ftl or rel+ or around that range were by using lasers that were assumed photonic, and yes i know they have some properties of real light i affirm this in the last paragraph

and by kizaru being the pinnacle of light attacks i meant it as he literally has the light fruit so his attacks should be the closest to light in real life

in the thread ive made reasoning against the statement

your last point doesnt mean much it just denounces the idea of it being photonic which im fine with

 

[Avaritia_603]

On top of that, regarding "not being photonic", the lasers are blatantly comprised of electromagnetic energy, which is lightspeed by default.

And all the statements of Kizaru's blatant lightspeed really smack this. It doesn't matter the criteria if it's stated to be lightspeed. If it's stated to be lightspeed, it can be full of mass, it can be cold, it could be a brick wall, but if it's stated to be lightspeed then it immediately works.

my first paragraph clearly goes against ur first statement and i have reasoning against the other things you said in the original post

 

[Mommyleona]

all of the op calcs i looked at that were sol or ftl or rel+ or around that range were by using lasers that were assumed photonic, and yes i know they have some properties of real light i affirm this in the last paragraph

and by kizaru being the pinnacle of light attacks i meant it as he literally has the light fruit so his attacks should be the closest to light in real life

in the thread ive made reasoning against the statement

your last point doesnt mean much it just denounces the idea of it being photonic which im fine with

my first paragraph clearly goes against ur first statement and i have reasoning against the other things you said in the original post

none of that matters, when he and his attacks are stated to be light speed multiple times, so they're light speed

 

[Avaritia_603]

none of that matters, when he and his attacks are stated to be light speed multiple times, so they're light speed

My thread goes against them? Simply stating they are something doesn't make it that thing, character statements are not an objective thing, none of what you're saying matters

 

[Vzearr]

Agreed. Obviously.

 

[That_moron2]

Agreed. Obviously.

This guy man

 

[Avaritia_603]

This guy man

Please keep replies related to the topic

 

[Vzearr]

This guy man

Just got cooked by a random.

 

[Reiner04]

On top of that, regarding "not being photonic", the lasers are blatantly comprised of electromagnetic energy, which is lightspeed by default.

And all the statements of Kizaru's blatant lightspeed really smack this. It doesn't matter the criteria if it's stated to be lightspeed. If it's stated to be lightspeed, it can be full of mass, it can be cold, it could be a brick wall, but if it's stated to be lightspeed then it immediately works.

This.

 

[Vzearr]

but if it's stated to be lightspeed then it immediately works.

Lol what in the fallacious take is this, are we serious?

 

[Avaritia_603]

This.

What about it? It doesn't refute anything I've mentioned in my op

 

[Nierre]

So do you believe that the many author statements, databook statements, inverse statements of Kizaru and his devil fruit to be light speed as an exaggeration of his speed? or that they're all lying about the capabilities of his fruit? You haven't touched on any of these statements.

 

[Avaritia_603]

So do you believe that the many author statements, databook statements, inverse statements of Kizaru and his devil fruit to be light speed as an exaggeration of his speed? or that they're all lying about the capabilities of his fruit? You haven't touched on any of these statements.

Just going off what I read in the calcs that I see if you have those statements I'll be happy to look at them

 

[Avaritia_603]

So do you believe that the many author statements, databook statements, inverse statements of Kizaru and his devil fruit to be light speed as an exaggeration of his speed? or that they're all lying about the capabilities of his fruit? You haven't touched on any of these statements.

From the multplie calcs I've seen none of them rely on such statements, just the fact that the lasers are ls from being photonic

 

[KingTempest]

Lol what in the fallacious take is this, are we serious?

If something is stated to be lightspeed and it's not a hyperbolic statement, then we consider it lightspeed.
How the hell is that a fallacious take? It's literally just a statement of speed

 

[SlendVeny]

Hard disagree.

 

[Kachon123]

What a funny thread.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Disagree FRA

 

[KingTempest]

my first paragraph clearly goes against ur first statement and i have reasoning against the other things you said in the original post

Alright let's go through it then

The problem i have with op being ftl is contingent upon all the laser feats, its safe to say most or all feats to my knowledge come from these kind of feats within the verse, but the problem comes from the lasers not being photonic, in the manga most of said lasers blow up upon impact with anything which is fine as lasers irl that are powerful enough can blow up small holes in things like metal, wood or whatever can absorb the light, so theoretically with a laser with high enough watts it would be able to cause explosions ( which would be hard to prove by itself but whatever ), my problem lies with what it leaves out, a high watt laser irl will ignite air at the focal point, now in one piece with the amount of watts required to cause the massive explosions that they do they would essentially ignite they air everywhere and cause massive explosions not just at the contact point of a solid.

First of all, the logic of the lasers is not just because it's photonic. It's because it's lasers made to mimic the lasers of someone else who fulfill qualities of lightspeed lasers and they (the other individual) also have statements of being lightspeed.

The lasers are made out of the same material as Kizaru, who is stated to be lightspeed. He generates lightspeed lasers and moves at lightspeed due to the nature of his fruit and the many statements of it from the manga, Databook Blue Deep, The Vivre Cards, and Oda himself about Kizaru. With all of this, all of his light techniques with velocity move at a set speed, the speed of light.

Kizaru has this. The lasers were modeled directly off of Kizaru based on studying Kizaru and the science behind his beams. Understanding concepts such as electromagnetic radiation and diving so deep into the concepts of photons to where he produced tools able to make physical contact with holograms.

Second of all, your entire argument is based off of a fallacious hyperscientific argument regarding lasers burning everything in the air. We don't do that much work. Lasers are allowed to explode on this wiki based on certain criteria and we have followed that criteria to a T.

I'll bold everything that the lasers from Kizaru, the Pacifista, Franky, Queen, etc. share.

Standards for laser determination​

Typically, lasers and other light-based attacks are only accepted to really move at the speed of light if they meet, at a minimum, a few of these criteria:

• The beam behaves in a reasonably realistic way, such as reflecting off non-magical mirrors or refracting and diffusing through liquids and materials.
• The beam is stated to move at the speed of light by reliable sources.
• The beam is stated to be composed/consisting of photons or light itself, again by reliable sources.
• The beam originates from a real source of light, such as the Sun or the flash of a camera.
  
  • Note that a beam does not automatically qualify for this requirement just by originating from a technological source.

Furthermore, there are a few criteria which show that a beam is not behaving like realistic light:

• The beam is shown to move at different speeds in the same material.
• The beam curves through the air or otherwise doesn't travel in straight lines (with the exception of realistic refraction or deflection).
• The beam primarily deals damage by means other than heating materials that absorb it.
  • A laser may cause explosions, but only if it rapidly vaporizes some matter, meaning that the target needs to be partially destroyed in the process.
• The beam is tangible and can be interacted with physically by normal humans, as if it was a solid, liquid or gas. It shouldn't disperse when being hit as a substance would, and should not be redirectable without using a mechanism like refraction.
  • While a laser can in theory push things, through radiation pressure or by causing explosions when vaporizing part of an object, those are niche circumstances and generally a laser should not primarily push things away like a physical projectile would.

The beams behave in a reasonably realistic way. It's stated to move at the speed of light.

So shame on those who agreed to this headache of a thread for no reason, especially Captain "are we serious?" the ex calc mod who doesn't know the basic calc rules

 

[Kachon123]

From the multplie calcs I've seen none of them rely on such statements, just the fact that the lasers are ls from being photonic

This isn't even true. Lasers in One Piece have been accepted as being light speed on the wiki for years. I strongly suggest doing more than surface level research before making threads like this.

 

[Avaritia_603]

Alright let's go through it then

First of all, the logic of the lasers is not just because it's photonic. It's because it's lasers made to mimic the lasers of someone else who fulfill qualities of lightspeed lasers and they (the other individual) also have statements of being lightspeed.

The lasers are made out of the same material as Kizaru, who is stated to be lightspeed. He generates lightspeed lasers and moves at lightspeed due to the nature of his fruit and the many statements of it from the manga, Databook Blue Deep, The Vivre Cards, and Oda himself about Kizaru. With all of this, all of his light techniques with velocity move at a set speed, the speed of light.

Kizaru has this. The lasers were modeled directly off of Kizaru based on studying Kizaru and the science behind his beams. Understanding concepts such as electromagnetic radiation and diving so deep into the concepts of photons to where he produced tools able to make physical contact with holograms.

Second of all, your entire argument is based off of a fallacious hyperscientific argument regarding lasers burning everything in the air. We don't do that much work. Lasers are allowed to explode on this wiki based on certain criteria and we have followed that criteria to a T.

I'll bold everything that the lasers from Kizaru, the Pacifista, Franky, Queen, etc. share.

The beams behave in a reasonably realistic way. It's stated to move at the speed of light.

So shame on those who agreed to this headache of a thread for no reason, especially Captain "are we serious?" the ex calc mod who doesn't know the basic calc rules

This doesn't really go against anything I've said, ur just assuming all of what you're saying is true the only thing that matters is you saying it's fallacious which it's not your just horribly misunderstanding what I said, I never said that they couldn't explode, I have made reasoning in the op against ls statement which you never refute you just say "oh they're stated light speed so they are" which doesn't mean anything
Shame on you for not understanding

 

[Avaritia_603]

This isn't even true. Lasers in One Piece have been accepted as being light speed on the wiki for years. I strongly suggest doing more than surface level research before making threads like this.

So my personal experience on the calcs i viewed is wrong? Nice, also btw still waiting for any of this knowledge I'm missing out on to be shown

 

[Avaritia_603]

What a funny thread.

No reason?

 

[Avaritia_603]

Disagree FRA

Any reason?

 

[Avaritia_603]

Hard disagree.

Any reason?

 

[Avaritia_603]

If something is stated to be lightspeed and it's not a hyperbolic statement, then we consider it lightspeed.
How the hell is that a fallacious take? It's literally just a statement of speed

There are many other possibilities that could go against a character statement besides it just being hyperbolic, so it's more of it's stated ls and it's not hyperbolic YOU accept it as ls

 

[Random-Helper323]

Let's all try to calm down a bit here, okay?

What's the evidence for these things being light speed? Something about the validity of a statement?

 

[Robo432343]

this thread needs to be closed

 

[SlendVeny]

Let's all try to calm down a bit here, okay?

What's the evidence for these things being light speed? Something about the validity of a statement?

More about the validity of a collection of dozens of statements.

 

[SlendVeny]

Any reason?

The massive array of information contradicting your "points"

Any reason?

They literally said their reason wdym

There are many other possibilities that could go against a character statement besides it just being hyperbolic, so it's more of it's stated ls and it's not hyperbolic YOU accept it as ls

This would be something you could say if the only evidence was character statements.

 

[Random-Helper323]

@Avaritia_603 what is your reasoning for considering those statements not valid?

 

[Vzearr]

Yeah no, yall are not refuting the OP at all I'm genuinely flabbergasted at this performance from OP fans. Eh, it is typical though, iirc. HST fans cannot debate and resort to insults, which should be handled.

 

[Stefano4444]

HST fans cannot debate and resort to insults, which should be handled.

The **** are you talking about? No other here its insulting anyone.