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One Piece: Logia dispersion in versus match-ups
- Thread starter CinCameron20
- Start date
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- Tags
- one piece
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- 296
- 61
Also this would severely limit the amount of matchups these characters get, because no one save other characters from One Piece use Haki.CinCameron20 said:
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If the character is faster than the the logia user, they can still hit them. The logia process is manual, not automatic, if what I'm getting is you thinking that now they can't fight anyone outside One Piece.
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Yeah good luck with that, 95% of the fights have speed equalized. Unless the other character has something to get around the intangibility in one way or another, the match would be completely one-sided.
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Well, I don't really care about that if you're only concern is "not being able to make as many fights".
Anyways, I think it's settled, Cin will make it whenever he wants and I'll close this.
Anyways, I think it's settled, Cin will make it whenever he wants and I'll close this.
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And why do fights matter? This is an indexing site where abilities are described accurately, they're not made for vs threads in mind. If there's a similar mechanism to haki anywhere it could be used for equalization. Logias are not invincible, they can still be interacted with using elemental attacks which plenty of verses posses (Naruto for example has many characters who can affect logias). Just because logia fruits are strong doesn't mean we have to nerf it unfairly to make it fair for others. I find it ridiculous that a valid ability like elemental intangibility (which is not even NLF, it has clear limitations both in and outside of One Piece) is being tried to be nerfed using inaccurate analogies to equalize.Rin Rokudo said:
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@Joseph619 i don't know if you are completely looking at my points alone but just in case I ignore you have some things mis interpreted. I never explicitly said ki and Haki or chi is connected to their life essence or force. versus like dragon ball or HNK for example also don't die if they are drained by their Ki, they are left exhausted just like Haki is.
My whole point that certain energies like Ki could work the same way as Haki was literally based on the only explicit statement of what Haki is.
Maybe I generalized certain energies like chi or chakra, as I don't know fictions like Naruto very well and how it works and the verses I know that use chi is worked the same way as Ki.
I'm also not suggesting that every single energy attack would work on Logia users. Again I pointed out it has to work the same way Haki works in order to argue it could hit Logia users, and the requirements are just not very difficult to accomplish.
1. Has to be a natural energy that CANbe found in every living being.
2. Has properties or origins that use the power of ones fighting spirt aka aura and or will and ambition.(this ones still a work on but the idea is that it's orgins are the same description as Haki or shown to be powered similar to Haki.
3. Can use said attacks like Bushoku Haki where one channels their energy into their physical attacks(think iron fist as an example.)
4. Nature based energies should only work if the element is opposite to said Logia user( if ace fights a user like let's say juvia from fairy tail, her element naturally affects ace.) however attacks with sources that aren't natural like lasers from machines or unatrual like most magics wouldn't work on Logia users.
I agree with some of Thebluedashes points on Haki and how verse equalization should work but he's trying to make out Haki as some sort of incredibly unique and exclusive energy. Points I agree is examples like Hakis nullifying effects on devil fruit users I believe should remain as an in verse ability. Also agree that certain energies should not be allowed to effect Logia beings unless it meets the criteria.
You guys can sort out what energies in other fictions should or shouldn't work on Logia. A solid basis I can advise is if it's like Ki and it's readily available to Everyone than it can hurt Logia. However if it's special and considered separate from the verses natural known energy and or requires special traits or abilites to unlock like magic. Than it won't work. Simple as that.
Another example I could give is To Aru, according to a friend theirs about 4 different energies manipulated "esper" "telesma" "magic" and one other one I can't seem to recall. Yah most of these energies are exclusive to certain users like AIM is to Espers so it can be agreed it wouldn't bypass Logia dispersion.
However it seems as though certain natural energies can be an exception to the rule if it's natural example Chakra seems to be an energy that most people can't agree would work.
I'd appreciate if some Naruto experts could briefly explain how chakra works and it's origins and does it have similar properties to Haki.
I don't mind certain in verse abilites being limited to only the verse. But something like Haki which isn't a exclusive or special power in one piece not to mention its many many similarities to other verses natural energies should be thought as the only way Logia users should be affected.
My whole point that certain energies like Ki could work the same way as Haki was literally based on the only explicit statement of what Haki is.
Maybe I generalized certain energies like chi or chakra, as I don't know fictions like Naruto very well and how it works and the verses I know that use chi is worked the same way as Ki.
I'm also not suggesting that every single energy attack would work on Logia users. Again I pointed out it has to work the same way Haki works in order to argue it could hit Logia users, and the requirements are just not very difficult to accomplish.
1. Has to be a natural energy that CANbe found in every living being.
2. Has properties or origins that use the power of ones fighting spirt aka aura and or will and ambition.(this ones still a work on but the idea is that it's orgins are the same description as Haki or shown to be powered similar to Haki.
3. Can use said attacks like Bushoku Haki where one channels their energy into their physical attacks(think iron fist as an example.)
4. Nature based energies should only work if the element is opposite to said Logia user( if ace fights a user like let's say juvia from fairy tail, her element naturally affects ace.) however attacks with sources that aren't natural like lasers from machines or unatrual like most magics wouldn't work on Logia users.
I agree with some of Thebluedashes points on Haki and how verse equalization should work but he's trying to make out Haki as some sort of incredibly unique and exclusive energy. Points I agree is examples like Hakis nullifying effects on devil fruit users I believe should remain as an in verse ability. Also agree that certain energies should not be allowed to effect Logia beings unless it meets the criteria.
You guys can sort out what energies in other fictions should or shouldn't work on Logia. A solid basis I can advise is if it's like Ki and it's readily available to Everyone than it can hurt Logia. However if it's special and considered separate from the verses natural known energy and or requires special traits or abilites to unlock like magic. Than it won't work. Simple as that.
Another example I could give is To Aru, according to a friend theirs about 4 different energies manipulated "esper" "telesma" "magic" and one other one I can't seem to recall. Yah most of these energies are exclusive to certain users like AIM is to Espers so it can be agreed it wouldn't bypass Logia dispersion.
However it seems as though certain natural energies can be an exception to the rule if it's natural example Chakra seems to be an energy that most people can't agree would work.
I'd appreciate if some Naruto experts could briefly explain how chakra works and it's origins and does it have similar properties to Haki.
I don't mind certain in verse abilites being limited to only the verse. But something like Haki which isn't a exclusive or special power in one piece not to mention its many many similarities to other verses natural energies should be thought as the only way Logia users should be affected.
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Again sorry I had to re open this, I wanted to respond to the thread but work and life took most of my time.
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- Thread starter
- #90
@Rin - a lot of match-ups cross-verse are mismatches anyways, and a logia user is still susceptible to attacks if he drops his guard, or is against any form of hax. melting, vaporizing, etc. can still harm or potentially kill a logia user, and Natsu--due to being a flame user--would still be able to deal damage to someone like Monet or Aokiji by merely using his standard flame attacks (ignoring any stat differences, of course).
Don't forget that a DF user is still weakened to the point of incapacitation if they end up waist-deep or completely submerged in water. DF users have their massive weaknesses despite being fairly hax in their own right.
Haki has never been the only way to harm a logia user. Look at Luffy vs Crocodile -- Water and Blood force Crocodile's body to solidify, allowing physical strikes to connect to his real body and deal damage. Luffy vs Enel is another example.
Don't forget that a DF user is still weakened to the point of incapacitation if they end up waist-deep or completely submerged in water. DF users have their massive weaknesses despite being fairly hax in their own right.
Haki has never been the only way to harm a logia user. Look at Luffy vs Crocodile -- Water and Blood force Crocodile's body to solidify, allowing physical strikes to connect to his real body and deal damage. Luffy vs Enel is another example.
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- Thread starter
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@Ant - As I said in the wall discussion, I can place one after thinking over it, and where to place the note.
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Will do.
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