One Piece General Revisions Part 2: East Blue to Enies Lobby Edition

[Damage3245]

Continuation of this thread: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2096680

Important Topics / Conclusions

• Upgrading 'East Blue Saga' Luffy and Zoro to High 8-C+ for stomping characters that have feats in the upper bounds of High 8-C.

• Downgrading 'Alabasta Saga to Water 7' Luffy to Town level, for beating Enel who survived a Town level Reject Dial.

• Downgrading Enel to Likely Town level physically, with At least Town level Devil Fruit powers (Via calc)

• Downgrading Rob Lucci (Enies Lobby Arc) to Town level for being comparable to the Town level Reject Dial.

Obviously none of these changes are final or set in stone yet, and we've got some more discussing to do to make sure that we're gotten all feats and calcs accounted for.

 

[Stefano4444]

Upgrading 'East Blue Saga' Luffy and Zoro to High 8-C for stomping characters that have feats in the upper bounds of 8-C.

Luffy and Zoro are already rank at High 8-C in their profiles, the upgrade was about replacing Luffy and Zoro at High 8-C+ for stomping High 8-C characters.

 

[Stefano4444]

Anyway, returning to the the previous argument with Cmue0312.


1) And i have never stated otherwise, i agree as well that Enel's Devil Fruit shouldn't not be scaled to anyone.

But Sanji did survive an El Thor, an attack that was be calculated in two cases to be 7-C.

So while Sanj's durability doesn't get directly scaled to a full power Enel, it should still get scaled to that specific attack.

Or even that, is can still be used as a support feat of Enel surviving the Reject Dial, as it show that Skypiea Arc characters are physically able to survive 7-C attacks.


2) Three Rokuougan were enough to permanently kill or incapacitate Gear 2nd Luffy, even when he had already take a lot of damage in his fight with Lucci, so i'm not sure that prove that Sanji surviving an El Thor is an outlier.

Franky surviving the Auto-Destruction with mid injuries at most, which means it would have take a lot more for fully kill him, and just to point out something Franky was portrayed to be on par with Luffy at the beginning of Water 7, who at that should still be as strong as he was during the Skypiea Arc, only at Enies Lobby he was show to have suprass him by how he was able to hold his own with Base Lucci.

And for Moria, that was a casual punch and we didn't fully see the extend of his strike but only a part, and even if i'm wrong then it only means that his attacks are likely stronger than we initially thought, as he was able to harm Gear 2nd Luffy, someone who can took multiple 7-C attacks.

 

[Damage3245]

Luffy and Zoro are already rank at High 8-C in their profiles, the upgrade was about replacing Luffy and Zoro at High 8-C+ for stomping High 8-C characters.

Ah, right. Thanks. I'll update that.

 

[The_Calaca]

If Moh-Muu's size is calced we might get a tier upgrade for the Monster Trio and Arlong and Krieg and maybe Kuro.

 

[Stefano4444]

About the Kuma's Ursus Shock.

If the Thriller Bark's size that of Man from the Shadow cannot be used due of his questionable method of scaling, i think it could still be possible redone it by using the OBD calc of Thriller Bark's size, and doing so he should get a far more acceptable result.

Thriller Bark's Diameter = 845.91 meters.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Science/Nuke.html

AP required to devastate Thriller Bark via air blast radius (widespread destruction) = 0.0015 Megatons or 1.5 Kilotons.

This is already quite impressive, but technically speakingthe air blast generated wasin fact far larger than the island.

Which a quick look, the radious of the air blast seen to have been about two times the size of Thriller Bark, putting it the air blast at 1691.82 meters in diameter.

So by remaking the calculation, i got this time around 0.0114 Megatons or 11.4 Kilotons.

 

[Cmue0312]

Yes and Sanji scaling to the full power of El Thor is what I disagree with. Look at it this way 1 El Thor is nearly 1 and 1/2 Rokuougan's in strength.

Does it make sense for Sanji to fully scale to an attack that would be capable of doing more damage to G2 Luffy than a Rokuougan. When G2 Luffy can stomp Bluneo who is comparable to base Luffy who should be decently more powerful Skypiea Sanji. Not really. Espesically when the Rokuougan is portrayed as Lucci's strongest attack.

On top of this Zoro thought an attack that should be weaker than El Thor was very powerful and immediately collapsed after. Zoro being the guy who has consistently been shown to have rediculus endurance.

 

[Stefano4444]

Does it make sense for Sanji to fully scale to an attack that would be capable of doing more damage to G2 Luffy than a Rokuougan. When G2 Luffy can stomp Bluneo who is comparable to base Luffy who should be decently more powerful Skypiea Sanji. Not really. Espesically when the Rokuougan is portrayed as Lucci's strongest attack.

It make sense since that would be Skypiea Sanji's max durability, which is proven as well by Enel surviving the Reject Dial, showing that Skypiea Arc characters are physically only baseline Town level at most.

And this is consistent with other feats and the powerscaling, as Franky's durability feat now fit with the current scaling of the series, as he should be comparable with Water 7 Luffy which is slightly stronger than Skypiea Luffy.

Franky (Moderately harm a 7-C explosion) = or <= Water 7 Luffy >= Skypiea Luffy = or >= Skypiea Sanji (Severely harm by a 7-C attack).

The Rokuougan is Lucci's strongest attack, but three Rokuougan were not enough to put down Gear 2nd Luffy, and is not like Luffy didn't get hurt or tired at that point, he has already fight Lucci for a while and he had used the Gear 2nd for extend period of time.

 

[Ercosore]

I still believe that Luffy and Enel´s physical stats should scale to Luffy´s small town level feat, it makes more sense than to have Enel´s physical stats being so close to el thor.

Edit: How high into town was the explosion Franky "tanked"?

 

[Stefano4444]

I still believe that Luffy and Enel´s physical stats should scale to Luffy´s small town level feat, it makes more sense than to have Enel´s physical stats being so close to el thor.

Enel until that point he didn't go all out until his fight with Luffy.

The El Thor itself doesn't show the full extent of Enel's lightning power but only a portion, having Sanji's durability scaled to that attack doesn't automatically making him able to withstand an Enel at max power.

And even without it, Enel's surviving the Reject Dial show that his max durability is too at 7-C and it would make Luffy 7-C in virtue of be capable to harm him with punches and kicks.

 

[Cmue0312]

Also this argument would mean Luffy got over 10x stronger from Alabasta to Skypiea yet got only a little over 2x stronger from Skypiea to Enies Lobby where he got a power-up. As theirs no way to scale Alabasta Saga to Skypiea.

Franky's feat was 11 Kilotons.

 

[Ercosore]

Except Enel´s hearth stopped beating, if he hadnt re started his hearth he would have died. Oh and a person can only ramain conscious just a few seconds after his hearth is stopped, so it is compleatly posible that he did it while unconscious.

 

[Stefano4444]

Also this argument would mean Luffy got over 10x stronger from Alabasta to Skypiea yet got only a little over 2x stronger from Skypiea to Enies Lobby where he got a power-up. As theirs no way to scale Alabasta Saga to Skypiea.

Alabasta Saga and Skypiea Saga are in the same key in both profile of Luffy, Zoro and Sanji.

A feat performed by a Skypiea Arc character will scale their Alabasta Arc counterpart and viceversa.

 

[Cmue0312]

I agree and I already pointed this out in previous thread.

 

[Stefano4444]

Except Enel´s hearth stopped beating, if he hadnt re started his hearth he would have died.

And the fact that he could restart his hearth by using his lightning power means he was both alive and conscious, despire be fatally injured.

Oh and a person can only ramain conscious just a few seconds after his hearth is stopped, so it is compleatly posible that he did it while unconscious.

Can you prove that Enel's powers are capable to working while be fully unconscious?

Usually a Devil Fruit users if KO is not able to activate his abilities.

 

[Cmue0312]

A feat performed by a Skypiea Arc character will scale their Alabasta Arc counterpart and viceversa.

It used but seeing as the scaling is being revised and Crocodile's sandstorm feat is no longer considered vaild everyone should be downgraded to Crocodile's multi-city block level feats.

 

[Stefano4444]

It used but seeing as the scaling is being revised and Crocodile's sandstorm feat is no longer considered vaild everyone should be downgraded to Crocodile's multi-city block level feats.

The Sandstorm is no longer since it was agree that Crocodile is too inconsistent to be used to scaling other characters.

But Alabasta Tiers are still going to be scaled to Skypiea Tiers like before.

Even without the 7-C feats, everyone has agreed that Alabasta Tiers are Low 7-C via scaling the Golden Bell.

Meaning characters like Mr. 1/Mr. 2 are still Low 7-C (or fully 7-C) for be on par with "Alabasta Arc to Water 7 Arc" Zoro/Sanji.

 

[Cmue0312]

I already pointed out in the precious thread that Enel has reflexively turned into lightning. The definition for reflexively is "as a reflex, without conscious thought; automatically."

So he can unconsciously turn into lightning.

 

[Cmue0312]

Why would they scale? Their are no Low 7-C feats in the arc and I don't remember anyone agreeing to this. On top of this I believe their is a time jump between Jaya and Alabasta.

 

[Ercosore]

>Enel´s hearth was stated to have stopped,

>a person can only remain consious for a few seconds after his hearth stops,

Here is Luffy´s devil fruit working when unconscious





Edit: As far as I remember we were going to make an 8-A key for Alabasta Luffy, but if that is not that case then I still mantain that at most an Alabasta to water 7 Luffy should be low 7-C bia his Skypiea feat.

 

[Damage3245]

There is no point dividing up the keys any further than they already are.

 

[Ercosore]

Ah fait enough. Btw in an unrelated note, how does the wiki treats the Dourikis?

 

[Damage3245]

I don't think the power levels should be taken as a strict multiplier even if it is indicative of a power increase with increased Douriki. I feel like Oda introduced them for the sake of mocking power levels.

 

[Ercosore]

Mmm I am not so sure about that, as far as I remember the dourikis were treated as something serious when they were introduced, not to mentioned they were relatively reliable. I am not saying we should use them as multipliers, but that they do seem to indicate the relative strength between the members of the CP9.

 

[The_Calaca]

I don't think we should use the Doriki. They weren't referenced never but Enies Lobby so it's worthless when it comes to scaling.

 

[Ercosore]

I mean, they did seem reliable enough to help determinate the general level of the CP9 in relationship of each other. Then again I am still in Alabasta, and I think you are as well, so we will talk about it when we re read Ennies Lobby.

 

[The_Calaca]

Ok. Then we'll continue the subject later.

Are we gonna talk about the possible upgrade for East Blue characters? The likes of Kuro and above are High 8-C+ but if we calc Moh-Muu's size there's the chance City Block Level characters (Monster Trio, Krieg Pirates and Arlong Pirates aswell).

 

[Ercosore]

That sounds promesing, we should probably look into that.

 

[The_Calaca]

This is what I'm talking about.

If we get Moh-Muu's size then that could upgrade Sanji and the other characters as well.

It's to safe that Krieg Pirates (Krieg, Gin and Pearl) will scale. Sanji got no powerup after Krieg's arc and still two-shotted Moh-Muu. And Pearl's iron shields blocked Sanji's kicks several times.

 

[Ercosore]

Interesting should we make a request in the calculation request thread? I am still kinda new here so I dont know 100% how things work here.

 

[The_Calaca]

I'll do it. It's important.

It's funny. I made a request days ago and was about Sanji.

 

[The_Calaca]

Done. Also, there're some speed's feats from people out-running explosions but I'll save it for later until I get more feats about it. I have a decent number of it right now so if it's calced it might get accepted.

 

[Ercosore]

I have found a few interesting things in Alabasta, mostly things that would help us calculate the size of Alabasta, and considering how much character travel about the country it may gave us a few speed feats.

 

[The_Calaca]

Me too. And I got useful scans of Alubarna's castle. Soon I'll make a new blog covering Chapter 101 to end of Arabasta.

 

[Ercosore]

Ok, a few things I have found so far.

Elumalu 12 hours away fom Yuba at normal walking speed.





Yuba is "In the middle of western Alabasta" and "a day" away from rainbase





Which is actually 16 hours.





Now plan Utopia started at 7 o´clock and Rainbase is 8 hours from Alubarna





Water goes down, some time pases before there escape.




First Croco-boy fight, a few feats





And a sandstorm that could be seen in Rainbase





And two and a half hour latter the Sandstorm reach Yuba.

 

[Cmue0312]

There is no point dividing up the keys any further than they already are.

Well I see why you wouldn't want to I have to disagree with characters from Alabasta scaling to Skypiea feats. Theirs a few reasons why:

1. Crocodile's best accepted feats are still over 500 tons away from baseline Low 7-C even with the highest calculation which Captain Torch was unsure about:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...ocodile.27s_Desert_Spada_-_8-A_.28Accepted.29 (484.3375 Tons - 8-A)

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Adam_of_darkness/One_Piece:_Alabasta_and_before (220.85 Tons - 8-A)

https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/one-piece-feat-crocodiles-desert-spada.17999/ (167.248 Tons - 8-A)

Let alone if we do end up scaling them to baseline 7-C.

2. Robin even well using Yama's Axe Dials aginst him didn't knock Yama out: https://********.org/chapter/61821/15

Zoro one-shot Braham (who should be comparable to Yama) and defeated Ohm (who is one of Enel's priests and thus should be stuperior to Yama):

https://********.org/chapter/61710/15 (Zoro one-shots Braham)

https://********.org/chapter/61851/9 (Zoro vs Ohm)

Remember Robin should be relative to Crocodile.

3. Zoro also states that they have been slowly growing stronger with each island they visit:

https://imgur.com/a/59zOt

So Skypiea Zoro > Alabasta Zoro.

 

[Damage3245]

Ercosore, you could just link the pages. Making the thread much longer by posting a bunch of images isn't very helpful. > So Skypiea Zoro > Alabasta Zoro. Yes, but the key isn't just Alabasta; it's Alabasta to Water 7. So we look at how strong characters have gotten nearer the end of those sagas, not just the beginning.

 

[Stefano4444]

Unless there are clear power jumps on a large scale like the one between Water 7 and Enies Lobby, there is no reason to assume that Skypiea Zoro if far stronger than his Alabasta counterpart or that Pre Timeskip Franky has become a lot stronger than Enies Lobby Base Luffy.

 

[Stefano4444]

I don't think we should use the Doriki. They weren't referenced never but Enies Lobby so it's worthless when it comes to scaling.

While we cannot directly utilize it to see the difference in strength, like Power Levels in DBZ, we can still utilize them to at least determinate who is stronger than who.

 

[Stefano4444]

I already pointed out in the precious thread that Enel has reflexively turned into lightning. The definition for reflexively is "as a reflex, without conscious thought; automatically."

Such thing was never stated or implied in the series and his reaction doesn't match with your assumption.

Enel didn't acted like he didn't know what has happen (or that he thought he was going to die) but instead he acted as cocky and proud as ever, which suggest that he knew what he has done, meaning he was fully conscious when he was restart his heart.