• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph

Question: Can we 100% say Vegapunk/Punk Records outperform IRL Supercomputers? Though i'm pretty sure that's the case, thought i might ask

Question 2: Considering the above as true, can we say Vegapunk's able to solve chess, using prep time?
 
Nonynho said:
Question: Can we 100% say Vegapunk/Punk Records outperform IRL Supercomputers? Though i'm pretty sure that's the case, thought i might ask

Question 2: Considering the above as true, can we say Vegapunk's able to solve chess, using prep time?
Click to expand...
1: Vegapunks profile is a little outdated but his technology is a lot better than any modern day supercomputer given he can make technology that can physically interact with light, can cyborgize his brain and upload his memories into Punk Records and have six robot clones come out of it. He's considered 500 years ahead of his contemporaries and is an expert in both biology (can flat out clone Devil Fruits) and technology, though his Intelligence only goes up to EG

2: Yes.... He's not skill diffing Rimuru in chess though imo
 
IbukiDoujisGiantTail said:
He's not skill diffing Rimuru in chess though imo
Click to expand...
So you know my game, huh?

IbukiDoujisGiantTail said:
1: Vegapunks profile is a little outdated but his technology is a lot better than any modern day supercomputer given he can make technology that can physically interact with light, can cyborgize his brain and upload his memories into Punk Records and have six robot clones come out of it. He's considered 500 years ahead of his contemporaries and is an expert in both biology (can flat out clone Devil Fruits) and technology, though his Intelligence only goes up to EG
Click to expand...
Think i've noticed some outdated points and that a great part of this should be in his intelligence section instead of... literally nothing

IbukiDoujisGiantTail said:
2: Yes....
Click to expand...
If that's the case, i suppose i'll get an incon to his page in a while if people say so too
 
Nonynho said:
So you know my game, huh?
Click to expand...
raven-mad-mod.gif

IbukiDoujisGiantTail said:
One Piece pages love being outdated it's like their favorite thing to do 😭😭😭 The verse is like 400 chapters out of date lmfaooo ☠️
Click to expand...
Hmm, maybe it's time to get back to the drawing board🤔
 
Btw Im thinking a minor CRT for Luffy just to add two abilities:

Add Bodily Weaponry to pre-timeskip and add Unconvential to all of them since we see that he attacks a lot of the time with his stretched out limbs, not solely foot or fist.

Also add Broadway Force (at least minor) via his heartbeat given that during Egghead the sound of his heartbeat kept the giants dancing even though Dorry and Broggy wanted to put out the ships fire.

thoughts?
 
IbukiDoujisGiantTail said:
Btw Im thinking a minor CRT for Luffy just to add two abilities:

Add Bodily Weaponry to pre-timeskip and add Unconvential to all of them since we see that he attacks a lot of the time with his stretched out limbs, not solely foot or fist.
Click to expand...
stretched out limbs are just his regular limbs enhanced. bodily weaponry is bodyparts that aren't regular that are weaponized. tails for example
IbukiDoujisGiantTail said:
Also add Broadway Force (at least minor) via his heartbeat given that during Egghead the sound of his heartbeat kept the giants dancing even though Dorry and Broggy wanted to put out the ships fire.
Click to expand...
eh, not valid since his opponents never dance
 
Is this old matchup between Doffy and Dressrossa Luffy still valid? I saw it was confirmed in an SBS he could’ve beaten Doffy without interference, the thread is from almost a decade ago
 
MonkeyOfLife said:
Yooo, I remember you 🤔 you been lurking or something? Haven't seen you in awhile

I don't even know what happened to Marco, I believe maybe interactions with shanks? Idk 🙈 need to watch the show 🙈
Click to expand...
Just not really active in the forum, look in here every once in a while. Ye he left with shanks.
 
Legion350 said:
I’m curious, how much this affects the current tiering. Would this make the 5-C characters Low 5-B?
Click to expand...
Anyone who fully scale, upscale and at least genuinely downscale from Whitebeard (and from other Top Tiers like the Admirals and Emperors) should get Low 5-B since the value its above baseline, by more than 10 times.

But like i say i do think there would need some revision on the current scaling since i do think there are some serious issues like having guys like Ace getting 5-B from Post Gura Blackbeard despite the fact that he was potrayed as much stronger than them, or having characters not getting similar tier despite having/scaling from feats similar to them (like Base Yamato or Katakuri).

To be honest when it come to Top Commander Tier characters (All Stars, Sweet Commanders, Ace, Jozu, Vista, Jinbei, and etc.), i think at best they should get a 'possibly Low 5-B'.
 
Last edited:
I hate to use the actually meme, but they have Kuzan. Plus, you can include my goat Shiryu, nah lol. Side note, but he really needs a restraining order around old people. Hate to be like this but 99% of his feats are stabbing sick and old folks, like I see why he wanted the Clear-Clear Fruit. Couldn’t take a risk against Garp unless he had cataracts, and he couldn’t wait for nature to kick in.
 
KingTempest said:
Because his feats don’t involve killing a broken old man and he actually fought several strong people inside and out of that arc
Click to expand...
Yeah he fought Sengoku and later even Garp, and while i don't believe the former isn't necessarely on par with Garp he should still be around the levels of the other admirals (thought i do believe he a bit weaker than them).

This its also the reason why i completely disagree with the current scaling for Ace, Jozu and Vista with them supposedly fully scale to that BB, despite the fact that at this point he should be above your regular Top Commander.
 
Vista fought Mihawk as an equal and it the best swordsman on the crew
Ace fought Blackbeard and canonically Blackbeard getting the Yami2 was "the power that let him beat ace" implying he wouldn't beat him without it, especially after he wounded him several times, plus he scarred whitebeard
Jozu took off aokiji's lower body and stalemated him until he was offguard
 
KingTempest said:
Vista fought Mihawk as an equal and it the best swordsman on the crew
Click to expand...
While Vista did briefly occupy Mihawk, and Mihawk acknowledged his skill, Mihawk wasn't get pushed to going all out or even using his true strength.

KingTempest said:
Ace fought Blackbeard and canonically Blackbeard getting the Yami2 was "the power that let him beat ace" implying he wouldn't beat him without it, especially after he wounded him several times, plus he scarred whitebeard
Click to expand...
I doubt Blackbeard needed the Yami Yami no Mi to win. Even before that fight, he was able to scar Shanks, and Shanks himself stated that he was not caught off guard. Which its even more impressive thanks of the Elbaf's flashback, where Shanks is shown as relative to Gaban in the past (one out of prime but still younger than the current one) when facing God Knight Harald. That same Shanks already had Advanced Conqueror’s Haki which its why he could damage Harald.

Because of that, I do not think Ace would have won even without the Yami, which its also why Shanks wanted WB to stop Ace. Blackbeard was simply on another level, and this was before he acquired the Quake Fruit, where it allow him to clash with Old Sengoku and even Garp. Yet even then, Blackbeard still avoided direct fights with Shanks and Akainu, implying those matchups would have been too risky or too close for him. By contrast, when he fought the remnants of the Whitebeard Pirates, he wiped them out with Marco admit it that they had no chance.

KingTempest said:
Jozu took off aokiji's lower body and stalemated him until he was offguard
Click to expand...
Regarding Jozu and Aokiji, yes, Jozu did make Aokiji bleed. However, Aokiji had just been stabbed by Whitebeard’s naginata, so he was not in the best position to defend himself. Like Vista, Jozu managed to occupy a stronger opponent for a time, but one distraction was enough for Aokiji to freeze him and remove him from the fight.

Still, even besides all of this, for me the main issue with these characters truly scaling to Low 5-B is simply due to the power creep that occured in Wano and after which kinda make gap between Top Commanders and other Top Tiers far wider, principally because of two factors:

- Base Kaido one-shot Boundman Luffy, even though a weaker Boundman had previously overpowered Doflamingo’s strings. The same who were durable enough to physically restrain Jozu, withstand Fujitora’s casual attacks via his meteors (and while at first glance it may not be impressive, tanking casual attacks from Top Tiers are feats that only Top Commanders had ever show at that point in the story). As well as be too durable for Kin’emon to cut, despite him being comparable to the stronger Scabbards like Ashura Doji, Nekomamushi, and Inuarashi, who scale around Jack's level.

Not to mention later Boundman was able to push Big Mom to use Armament Haki to clash with him. While it did force Luffy back to Base, it still very impressive when you consider that, in comparison, a Big Mom with amnesia could physically overpower Zoan Form Queen without using Haki, just her natural strength. Even Post-Udon Luffy was still portrayed as too physically weak to truly damage Kaido or Big Mom, and had to rely on Dura Neg. Only with Advanced Conqueror’s Haki was he now on a level of strength where he could actually damage them.

- Greenbull defeated Queen and King, while stating that it should shame himself if someone like him would lose against mere Commanders, making it clear that Admirals are suppost to above most Top Commanders.

Which its later proven true, with Aokiji fighting on par with Old Garp, who should be around Old Whitebeard when healthy and Shanks (the same Shanks who, when going all out, could overwhelm Kid’s Awakening and one-shot him, someone who can survive multiple attacks from a stronger version of Big Mom. Who should also be relative to Law, who could fight Post-Timeskip Blackbeard for a while before losing), and Borsalino fighting on par Gear 5th Luffy, which can be reasonably assume to be as strong as Hybrid Form Kaido (and even before Gear 5th, it could be argued that Post-ACoC Luffy may have surpassed someone like Big Mom, with Kaido even admitting that he had not had that much fun in a long time, despite having clashed on part with Big Mom a few days earlier in his Base).
 
Last edited:
Stefano4444 said:
Still, even besides all of this, for me the main issue with these characters truly scaling to Low 5-B is simply due to the power creep that occured in Wano and after which kinda make gap between Top Commanders and other Top Tiers far wider, principally because of two factors:

- Base Kaido one-shot Boundman Luffy, even though a weaker Boundman had previously overpowered Doflamingo’s strings. The same who were durable enough to physically restrain Jozu, withstand Fujitora’s casual attacks via his meteors (and while at first glance it may not be impressive, tanking casual attacks from Top Tiers are feats that only Top Commanders had ever show at that point in the story). As well as be too durable for Kin’emon to cut, despite him being comparable to the stronger Scabbards like Ashura Doji, Nekomamushi, and Inuarashi, who scale around Jack's level.

Not to mention later Boundman was able to push Big Mom to use Armament Haki to clash with him. While it did force Luffy back to Base, it still very impressive when you consider that, in comparison, a Big Mom with amnesia could physically overpower Zoan Form Queen without using Haki, just her natural strength. Even Post-Udon Luffy was still portrayed as too physically weak to truly damage Kaido or Big Mom, and had to rely on Dura Neg. Only with Advanced Conqueror’s Haki was he now on a level of strength where he could actually damage them.
Click to expand...

First, I believe the main reason for why Jozu, Vista and Marco to a lesses extent scales to the value of Low 5B is simply because there is no way a mid tier 6 guy (the next highest scaling value) could do the things they did. The only outlier is literally Doffy and his strings but he has narrative backing to not even downscale due to being directly stated below 2 "YC3" in Jack (Kaido called him strong and Doffy weak) and Cracker (Big Mom sent him to deal with Luffy even after knowing he beat up Doffy) while the rest of them don't.
Vista stopping Mihawk may not seem like a valid feat but every time vista is mentioned in any regard, that single page bout is glazed a lot by the narrator so that has some "narrative".
Ace has whis whole manga showing his prowess + highdiffing Yami black beard + comoletely nullifying and attack from Kuzan after many days of torture in Impeldown.
Jozu only has the offguard Doffy string that is more of an LS antifeat but his speed, ap and dura all downscale to the top tiers + I've seen around that the slash he stopped from Mihawk was "the strongest slash" but did not search for a source on that.
If you want to, you can say that Vista and Marco don't really scale to the admirals (and thus the top tiers) due their failled attempts to fight Akainu who is relative to Kuzan, and then only Ace and maybe Jozu still scales with the Marine ford scaling chain being something like: Vista and Marco<<akainu=Kuzan~>Tortured Ace and Jozu.

On the Boundman stuf, Big Mom using Haki does not mean she needed it. She uses whenever she feels like it (plot makes her stupid you've read the raid) and only makes both be weaker than no homies Big Mom and thus making those forms and those who scale to them weaker than Base Kaido and Big Mom, but when both are manhandling higher tier commanders when serious like Big Mom did Marco, that does not mean much especially since the only link between Jozu and this scaling chain is Doffy and due to other feats the outlier in on Doffy not the diamknd fella and even then its only LS + Wano Kaido and Big Mom should be unironically higher in the scaling chain dan any of the admirals during marineford so I don't see anything that contradicts the scaling of the guys on Marineford.
The rest is mostly true but you forgot the biggest commander<Top Tier feats wktch is Akainu face tanking due to higher haki (abservation like kat or armament you can choose) Marco and Vista.
The last thing is, My big mom agenda stops me from agreeing that G5 Luffy outscaling Big Mom as a whole due to her having having some statements that make her cracked despite her showing (Roger did not want the smoke) unless you also agree that G5 Luffy > Kaido as well.
 
Bananossauro said:
The only outlier is literally Doffy and his strings but he has narrative backing to not even downscale due to being directly stated below 2 "YC3" in Jack (Kaido called him strong and Doffy weak) and Cracker (Big Mom sent him to deal with Luffy even after knowing he beat up Doffy) while the rest of them don't.
Click to expand...
Doflamingo himself its physically inferior Jack and Cracker, however its his Strings which matter here, as they consistenly display far greater tougher than Doffy himself, his Strings do legit scale to Jozu's Durability/Lifting Strength.

As even after Marineford, in Dressrosa (prior of Gear 4th) his strings where show to be virtually indestructible against most, they could even tank Gear 3rd blows, where Doffy himself (despite having physical superior) could still get injured by Gear 2nd Luffy. The Birdcage itself couldn't be either stopped or damaged, with characters like Zoro and Kin’emon capable only to slow it down.

To remind you, Kin’emon was one of the four Nine Red Scabbards which that actually make Zoan Kaido bleed (but not actually damage him) with a combo attack, and while i don't think that definitely put him above Boundman (since it was a collective attack), its still worth feat, not to mention him be comparable to Ashura Doji, Nekomamushi, and Inuarashi who fought on par with Jack.

And while Fujitora wasn't going all out, the fact that his casual level of strength couldn't break the Birdcage (either with his meteors or when he start using his Haki against the strings) do further validate the scaling, as again prior of them the only characters who could actually withstand casual attacks from Admirals where people like Jozu, Vista and Ace.

The only issue would be the Black Knight be able to be shatter by Gear 2nd Luffy as well as be damaged by weaker foes, however i do feel like the Black Knight its meant to be that strong as its suppost to work as distraction or trick the enemy into believing they where facing the true Doflamingo, and that the reason why he could maintain that technique for long period of time its because the strings where weaker making it less stamina consuming.

Which its plausible as other moves like Overheat he can alter the proprieties of the strings, making them hotter, so its more than likely that he can also alter their density/durability, making them weaker when using Black Knight or stronger when using Parasite, Birdcage or other more combat oriented techniques.

Bananossauro said:
If you want to, you can say that Vista and Marco don't really scale to the admirals (and thus the top tiers) due their failled attempts to fight Akainu who is relative to Kuzan, and then only Ace and maybe Jozu still scales with the Marine ford scaling chain being something like: Vista and Marco<<akainu=Kuzan~>Tortured Ace and Jozu.
Click to expand...
I don't include Marco with them as unlike the other, he does have actual feats and statements that could put him at fully Low 5-B (which i feel should only be fully applied to what people usually refer to Top Commander+ Tier like Onigashima/Post Wano Kidd, Onigashima/Post Wano Law, Zoan Forms Yamato, Post ACoC Zoro and Post ACoC Base Luffy, Awakening Form Lucci).

From the Gorosei believing him be one of the few people who could potentially stop Blackbeard along side the Emperors, him able to briefly match Big Mom with her admitting that she would have needed all her Homies to fight him, or him actually able to outmatch/outspeed both King and Queen at the same time before losing due of Stamina.

Bananossauro said:
On the Boundman stuf, Big Mom using Haki does not mean she needed it. She uses whenever she feels like it (plot makes her stupid you've read the raid)
Click to expand...
The true stupid moment started only during the raid, before that and especially in Whole Cake she hasn't show the same degree of PIS moments. Beside that if Big Mom didn't need Armament Haki to clash with Boundman why she would have done it in the first place?

Like she may be far from be the smartest person but i doubt she its the type to put effort when not necessary, she does have Observation Haki and she know when someone its actually a genuine threat or not (like how she warned Kaido to avoid Zoro's Emna attack), so there are to be a reason why she choose to use Armament Haki where she could have just use her natural durability/strength.

Bananossauro said:
and only makes both be weaker than no homies Big Mom and thus making those forms and those who scale to them weaker than Base Kaido and Big Mom, but when both are manhandling higher tier commanders when serious like Big Mom did Marco
Click to expand...
Like i say i do think Marco its the exception as he actually had a far more solid case of him fully scale to Low 5-B due of the previously mention feats and statements, as well as general potrayal.

So her needing the Homies to actually defeat Marco isn't an issue, especially when this its the same guy who could outmatch both King and Queen at the same time, where Zoan Queen himself was getting tossed around by an even weaker Big Mom who lost her memories, didn't have her Homies and didn't see to be able to properly use Haki (or at least against Queen she didn't need it to ovepower him).
 
Last edited:
Stefano4444 said:
Doflamingo himself its physically inferior Jack and Cracker, however its his Strings which matter here, as they consistenly display far greater tougher than Doffy himself, his Strings do legit scale to Jozu's Durability/Lifting Strength.

As even after Marineford, in Dressrosa (prior of Gear 4th) his strings where show to be virtually indestructible against most, they could even tank Gear 3rd blows, where Doffy himself (despite having physical superior) could still get injured by Gear 2nd Luffy. The Birdcage itself couldn't be either stopped or damaged, with characters like Zoro and Kin’emon capable only to slow it down.

To remind you, Kin’emon was one of the four Nine Red Scabbards which that actually make Zoan Kaido bleed (but not actually damage him) with a combo attack, and while i don't think that definitely put him above Boundman (since it was a collective attack), its still worth feat, not to mention him be comparable to Ashura Doji, Nekomamushi, and Inuarashi who fought on par with Jack.

And while Fujitora wasn't going all out, the fact that his casual level of strength couldn't break the Birdcage (either with his meteors or when he start using his Haki against the strings) do further validate the scaling, as again prior of them the only characters who could actually withstand casual attacks from Admirals where people like Jozu, Vista and Ace.

The only issue would be the Black Knight be able to be shatter by Gear 2nd Luffy as well as be damaged by weaker foes, however i do feel like the Black Knight its meant to be that strong as its suppost to work as distraction or trick the enemy into believing they where facing the true Doflamingo, and that the reason why he could maintain that technique for long period of time its because the strings where weaker making it less stamina consuming.

Which its plausible as other moves like Overheat he can alter the proprieties of the strings, making them hotter, so its more than likely that he can also alter their density/durability, making them weaker when using Black Knight or stronger when using Parasite, Birdcage or other more combat oriented techniques.
Click to expand...

The strings are overall weaker than Dressrosa Boundman and so overall weaker than Cracker thus weaker than a One Shot Gap between those who are relative to the Yonko and that is a contradiction with the feat on Jozu due to him stalling Kuzan and also making Kuzan bleed with a tackle.
The Kin'emon for me is a weird case since in Dressrosa and Punk hazard he was a jobbing so hard that he should be weaker than Doffy, but Kaido himself considers the Scabbards to be "strong" when Doffy is "weak". For me, I'll take the Issho excuse of only wanting to push the birdcage and not breaking it due to saving some headache and even then breaking some strings don't help much since it can be remade + not destroying it whole, wouldn't stop the desrtuction it would cause.

Stefano4444 said:
The true stupid moment started only during the raid, before that and especially in Whole Cake she hasn't show the same degree of PIS moments. Beside that if Big Mom didn't need Armament Haki to clash with Boundman why she would have done it in the first place?

Like she may be far from be the smartest person but i doubt she its the type to put effort when not necessary, she does have Observation Haki and she know when someone its actually a genuine threat or not (like how she warned Kaido to avoid Zoro's Emna attack), so there are to be a reason why she choose to use Armament Haki where she could have just use her natural durability/strength.
Click to expand...

Since in Wano it stablishes that Big Mom uses whateaver haki she wants even when she does like against Page One using ACoC and simply not using against Kid & Law with the only maybe excuse being "she underestimated them" so her using Haki does mean much and less so when you consider that base Kaido (to whom she is equal to) One Shot an even stronger version of Luffy thar was even more motivated than that single clash.


The Queen thing only works for Queen (not his hybrid form nor the Germa abilities tho ) and those below him. I simply can't see any scaling between him and any of the offenders outside of maybe Sanji but I believe he has feats some feats on King and Marco hypes him up the same as Zoro.
Like again, no Country Level character can do what any of the listed commanders did when faced against the Moon/Small Planet Level characters. That is one of the problems caused by axing all feats leaving only the mid (early time skip) and top(Yonko &admirals) tiers feats calcable, the high(commanders and such) tiers get shafted. They are either too far above the Mid tier or too far below the Top. That is why I believe the best looking scaling we had was from when Shiki's feat was used and the Top tiers were multiCon and the high tiers were continental and the mid tiers lower on the tier 6.
 
Bananossauro said:
The strings are overall weaker than Dressrosa Boundman and so overall weaker than Cracker thus weaker than a One Shot Gap between those who are relative to the Yonko and that is a contradiction with the feat on Jozu due to him stalling Kuzan and also making Kuzan bleed with a tackle.
Click to expand...
Weaker than Dressrosa Boundman for sure, but Cracker? Not necessarily.

While Cracker could actually harm Boundman, that does not necessarily mean he was above him. At most, they were relative, and it could still be argued that Cracker was inferior to Gear 4th overall. The gap in strength and speed was just far smaller compared to Doffy, who could not even hurt Boundman and could barely keep up with him.

After all, I think the major issue that Luffy had against Cracker was not simply that he was strong or fast enough, but that his Devil Fruit was a particularly good counter against brute force or people who like fight into direct confrontation. He could create an endless number of Biscuit Soldiers, forcing Boundman to waste time and energy destroying them while also having to defend himself against Cracker directly.

Luffy even needed assistance from Nami to weaken the Biscuit Soldiers. Then he had to use Tankman so he could hold Cracker in place, prevent him from escaping, and charge an attack that knocked him out. Cracker himself admitted that he does not have very high pain tolerance, which, while it does not mean he is a glass cannon, does imply that his endurance is lower than that of other characters.

So I do not see any major contradiction. After all i never said that Doffy’s strings necessarily scale above Jozu, only that they should be somewhat relative. We never actually saw how Jozu freed himself, and I do not see a reason why Doffy would simply let him go. So it is more than likely that Jozu had the strength to free himself. However, since the strings were able to restrain Jozu without immediately breaking, it implies that Jozu likely had to put effort into escaping.

That would still validate the idea that the strings to at least scale from other Top Commanders in terms of Durability and Lifting Strength (as that its requid for the strings to restrain Jozu). Which in turn should put Dressrosa Boundman Luffy at least around if not above Jozu.

And while I did say that Cracker being able to harm Boundman does not necessarily make him stronger than or equal to Jozu, it does suggest that he and the rest of the Sweet Commanders should exist around the same tier as Whitebeard’s strongest crew members, such as Jozu, Vista, and Ace. Marco is the exception, since, as I said, he has actual feats that place him above the typical Top Commander.

The same can also apply to the All-Stars, including Jack, since he has his own scaling from the Nine Red Scabbards, which could give him a “possibly Low 5-B” rating. This is also supported by the fact that, logically speaking, he should be around Cracker as them are arguably the weakest Top Commanders. Of course, there would still be some exceptions and specializations, such as King having far greater Durability due to his Lunarian physiology, or Katakuri having greater Speed than most because of Advanced Observation Haki.

This also makes narrative sense, since it has been established multiple times that the Emperors are very bellicose. At least Big Mom and Kaido are, while Whitebeard and Shanks are more reactive, especially Shanks, who tends to focus on maintaining the status quo. Their crews have fought each other many times over the decades, only to repeatedly end up in a standstill. With Perospero mentionung in Wano how many times he wanted to kill Marco in the past, implying that they had clashed on several occasions.

And this kind of long-term stalemate would only be possible if Big Mom’s officers and Sweet Commanders were indeed capable of facing the top crew members of other Emperors, at least those from Kaido and Whitebeard’s crews. As Shanks's top officers be stronger than most doesn't cause contradiction as it was enstablish that they have higher bounties imply higher strong, plus Shanks be very passive would means that he likely fought far less than the other Emperors.

Bananossauro said:
The Kin'emon for me is a weird case since in Dressrosa and Punk hazard he was a jobbing so hard that he should be weaker than Doffy, but Kaido himself considers the Scabbards to be "strong" when Doffy is "weak".
Click to expand...
Sure, Doffy is weak, but compared to whom exactly? The All-Stars? Definitely. The Tobiroppo? That is more questionable, since most of them doesn't have any rest many significant feats in Wano beyond downscaling from Ulti and Who’s-Who and getting mid-diffed by Wano Straw Hats. And frankly, it is not unbelievable for Doflamingo to be around their level.

Despite being weaker than Gear 4th, it is not as if Boundman could one-shot him. Doflamingo survived multiple named attacks from someone who should have at least comparable strength to Jozu. This is somewhat similar to Perospero enduring a beatdown from Sulong Neko long enough for the moon to be covered by clouds, after which Perospero started gaining the upper hand and only failing to finish off as he return to his Sulong Form where he proceed to oneshot him.

And sure, Perospero was facing a heavily wounded Neko, but Jack himself stated that none of the Tobiroppo could hope to win against the Nine Red Scabbards, even in their weakened state after getting beaten by Base Kaido. That alone already portrays Perospero as stronger than most of the Tobiroppo (with Ulti and Who’s-Who being the only ones who have legitimate scaling that could potentially put them above him). The same logic can be applied to Doflamingo.

Besides, how literally are we supposed to take Kaido’s statement? When Kaido was hit by Post-Udon Base Luffy, he initially left shocked viewed him in the same league as Shanks, Oden, Whitebeard, Roger, and Rocks. Yet he only realize later that this was due to Durability Negation, and Luffy had to unlock Advanced Conqueror’s Haki to actually fight on par with Kaido. So it is likely that a drunk Kaido simply called Doffy “weak” because he lost, rather than because Doffy is genuinely weak.

Bananossauro said:
The Queen thing only works for Queen (not his hybrid form nor the Germa abilities tho ) and those below him. I simply can't see any scaling between him and any of the offenders outside of maybe Sanji but I believe he has feats some feats on King and Marco hypes him up the same as Zoro.
Click to expand...
Yet despite having access to his Hybrid Form (which to be honest i'm not completely sure about Hybrid Forms > Full Zoan Forms as a general rule) or his Germa abilities, he still couldn't do anything against an amnesiac Big Mom, who overpowered him with just her raw physical strength. He even believed that a sneak attack from a great height would work in this situation. Yet this only managed to make Big Mom recover her memories and return to her normal state, with Queen sensing the change and realizing that he stood no chance at that point.

Compared to Boundman, who actually managed to briefly clash (with a non named attack, no King Kong Gun or anything flashy) with a Big Mom not handicapped and fully conscious, without getting overwhelmed, its night and day. And sure, Luffy was forced to detransform, but it was still a far more impressive performance than Queen, no matter what one thinks about Big Mom overusing Haki. Also i'm impressive sure that none of Queen’s Germa abilities can make him physically stronger or more durable than normal, his cybernetic augmentations are already activated (whereas Sanji did not awaken his own enhancements until later).

So yeah Whole Cake/Dressrosa Boundman Luffy be physically far stronger than most Top Commanders its actually more than likely, as before Kaido nobody ever manage to trully overpower his Gear 4th, even Katakuri couldn't do it without rely on his Awakening. And if he was put against Queen then he would have been able to overpower him too.

To be honest the only Top Commanders who can be argue to be more powerful than this version of Luffy are Marco (due of what i mention before), Benn (due of Shanks's crew be stronger than the average Emperor's crew), King and Ace. Everyone else would get below Boundman Luffy in terms of physical power (with Katakuri match him with Awakening).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Antvasima
One Piece new chapter spoilers thread
48 49 50
Replies
2K
Views
141K
Stefano4444
Stefano4444
Ruby_R_Dracula
Bendy and the General Discussion
2
Replies
42
Views
2K
HASE-1929
HASE-1929
Kachon123
One Piece: Planet Size Discussion Rule
Replies
17
Views
2K
Antvasima
Antvasima
Ztesrxgdfjcvgkbh
Ark General Discussion Thread
Replies
8
Views
95
AyOgUyS
AyOgUyS
Ztesrxgdfjcvgkbh
Yo-Kai Watch General Discussion Thread
Replies
0
Views
111
Ztesrxgdfjcvgkbh
Ztesrxgdfjcvgkbh
Back
Top