One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph

[SlendVeny]

That's not one of the 7 new ones I was referring to.

Oh, shoot, forgot they had 9 of them there. I do think most of them could have been replaced, but that's kinda because they didn't show off at all. Like, why have exactly 10 elite marines while ONLY ZORO is distracted and they have Bonney on hand, and then not have them all get to fight?


I'm thinking:

Spoiler

-Sanji goes to help Luffy, but Doberman interrupts, and says something about how he told everyone
Luffy should be eliminated two years ago. They fight for a bit, Sanji breaks his sword, Doberman maybe pulls out a DF if he has one, presumably a Doberman Zoan, Sanji uses his Awoken form, they clash for a bit, Sanji beats him with a barrage of 5 Ifrit Jambe kicks to his spine, which breaks.
-Doll is about to capture Bonney, and Kuma throws a punch, she blocks and is knocked back, then as she's running at them, Bonney turns her into a kid and her punch bounces off Kuma
-Red King fights Franky onscreen for a bit before he gets annihilated, actually using shit like Haki, Geppou, and maybe a thing where he shoots compressed steam like bullets or makes a smokescreen with it.
-Bluegrass is pressuring everyone, until she's attacked by Jinbe, who she comfirms she already knows. He defeats the Pacifista, launching her into the sea, where she comes back with a Sea Beast Weapon, which he defeats, before she attacks him, now using Haki, and is quickly defeated, and left back on shore.
-Hound goes after Brook, Brook makes a joke about dogs eating bones, and Hound overwhelms Brook for a bit, until Brook reveals he's been slowly freezing him with small cuts over the course of the fight.
-Pomsky attacks Chopper, overwhelms him, and gets taken out by Monster Point.
-Urban fires a barrage of blasts, but Usopp intercepts them midair. The two have a shootout for a while, with Usopp being hit once or twice. At the end of the fight, he seems defeated, but his vision goes dark for a moment. A perfect point appears in his mind, and he shoots it. He hits the exact spot, ricocheting an explosive into Urban's cannon barrel, detonating an explosive inside his head and knocking him out.
-Tosa takes out a Pacifista, goes to attack the group, and then Robin grabs him and breaks his arms.
-Guillotine shoots his blade at Nami, and Zeus blocks it. Nami turns around, and blocks it again and again, and then, at one point, the moment it returns to his head, a bolt of lightning comes out of the sky and hits the metal of the blade, simultaneously electrocuting him and knocking the blade into his head, beating him

 

[Banjo77]

I'm not gonna lie, if you're gonna talk about reading comprehension, you should type something comprehensible for us to read.

It is a lack of reading comprehension when he says that he is referring to Luffy's base.

 

[SlendVeny]

It is a lack of reading comprehension when he says that he is referring to Luffy's base.

Bro, it's been basically 2 weeks.

 

[Mndks]

hi

 

[Antvasima]

Hello.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Didn’t watch the full episode but from the clips I’ve seen for the gear 4 vs kizaru everything was “kinda” fine until the weird laser and black mamba clash happened

I also was expecting Kizaru’s acceleration to look way cooler and animated, similar to base Luffy’s kick but way better… Not complaining tho

 

[That_moron2]

Ms. Doublefinger Downgrade

The anime shows that she turned to look before the lightning actually came out of the cloud. This is consistent with the manga showing us her head turning before a sound effect that lightning is usually acompanied with.

vsbattles.com

 

[Antvasima]

I just came to think of that the likely regenerating narcissistic power-mad amoral mass-murdering tyrant of the One Piece world, Imu, almost shares a name with Rimuru, who also seems to be a power-tripping mass-murdering narcissistic amoral regenerating tyrant, and may be the most prominent and popular current case of a fictional Japanese character actively encouraging and idealising such character traits and ideals to its readers, whereas One Piece is prominently a story about freedom, joy, compassion, friendship, solidarity, bravery, cooperation, and revolution against tyranny.

Do you think that this may be deliberate from Oda?

 

[DaReaperMan]

I just came to think of that the likely regenerating narcissistic power-mad amoral mass-murdering tyrant of the One Piece world, Imu, almost shares a name with Rimuru, who also seems to be a power-tripping mass-murdering narcissistic amoral regenerating tyrant, and may be the most prominent and popular current case of a fictional Japanese character actively encouraging and idealising such character traits and ideals to its readers, whereas One Piece is prominently a story about freedom, joy, compassion, friendship, solidarity, bravery, cooperation, and revolution against tyranny.

Do you think that this may be deliberate from Oda?

... really, Ant? Tell me you've consumed absolutely nothing Slimeverse without telling me you've consumed absolutely nothing Slimeverse.

You can successfully accuse Rimuru of many things(Mary Sue, more than anything) but his "Tyranny" is over a people who actually adore him. You only get something even REMOTELY resembling Imu when said character has done damage to his kingdom or killed(or nearly killed) someone he cares about. AKA, when you've made it personal. And even then he gives most people an out for not getting glassed.

I don't even like Rimuru, I think he's a massive Mary Sue in a verse that power fantasy's its way to popularity, but I'd sooner compare him to you than I would an extreme like Imu.

 

[Stefano4444]

I just came to think of that the likely regenerating narcissistic power-mad amoral mass-murdering tyrant of the One Piece world, Imu, almost shares a name with Rimuru, who also seems to be a power-tripping mass-murdering narcissistic amoral regenerating tyrant, and may be the most prominent and popular current case of a fictional Japanese character.

Rimuru Tempest?

 

[Nierre]

lol that's a crazy reach

 

[Theglassman12]

Ant can you shut up about these stupid comparisons with fictional characters you know absolutely nothing about? Especially when at no point has the writers remotely said this is a viewpoint on Japanese culture as a whole. You sound more and more like a clown when you keep making these stupid comparisons that is a far bigger stretch than Luffy’s own reach.

 

[Testarossa002]

I just came to think of that the likely regenerating narcissistic power-mad amoral mass-murdering tyrant of the One Piece world, Imu, almost shares a name with Rimuru, who also seems to be a power-tripping mass-murdering narcissistic amoral regenerating tyrant, and may be the most prominent and popular current case of a fictional Japanese character actively encouraging and idealising such character traits and ideals to its readers, whereas One Piece is prominently a story about freedom, joy, compassion, friendship, solidarity, bravery, cooperation, and revolution against tyranny.

Do you think that this may be deliberate from Oda?

If I didn't know better, I'd assume this was AI generated ngl
Rimuru actively avoids conflicts. Even though Tempest (his country) is way superior to their human neighbours in terms of power and economic influence, he seeks to find a way to negotiate with them first before attempting more drastic

 

[Kachon123]

Ant can you shut up about these stupid comparisons with fictional characters you know absolutely nothing about? Especially when at no point has the writers remotely said this is a viewpoint on Japanese culture as a whole. You sound more and more like a clown when you keep making these stupid comparisons that is a far bigger stretch than Luffy’s own reach.

Don't think this is very appropriate. You can disagree without insulting someone.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it is probable that my impression of Rimuru is exaggerated and inaccurate due to my own biases against these types of extremely power-tripping characters. I haven't actually read almost anything from the slime verse because I dislike this type of genre after all, so my impression is mostly based on secondhand information.

I just came to think of that the name seemed like a somewhat strange coincidence.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Well, it is probable that my impression of Rimuru is exaggerated and inaccurate due to my own biases against these types of extremely power-tripping characters. I haven't actually read almost anything from the slime verse because I dislike this type of genre after all, so my impression is mostly based on secondhand information.

I just came to think of that the name seemed like a somewhat strange coincidence.

If we are honest with ourselves, we have to admit that sometimes our assumptions and preconceived notions are wrong, and therefore, our interpretation of events is incorrect. This causes us to overreact, to take things personally, or to judge people unfairly.

~ Elizabeth Thornton

 

[Antvasima]

True enough.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Antvasima then don’t make ridiculous assumptions about a character you literally have no knowledge of. I don’t really give a shit or even like many Isekai series but I don’t make ridiculous claims about them if I don’t know anything about the characters.

 

[Antvasima]

when at no point has the writers remotely said this is a viewpoint on Japanese culture as a whole

However, who was talking about Japanese culture as a whole? I was referring to Rimuru specifically here.

 

[Antvasima]

@Antvasima then don’t make ridiculous assumptions about a character you literally have no knowledge of. I don’t really give a shit or even like many Isekai series but I don’t make ridiculous claims about them if I don’t know anything about the characters.

Well, I have an overactive pattern recognition, and an unfiltered manner of expressing myself. It is virtually impossible for me to put a stop to that combination.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Antvasima You were literally claiming that the writer of Slime is encouraging these kinds of behaviors to the readers when at no point is that the intent.

You need to express yourself in a completely different manner that isn’t just labeling a character or writer under some extreme cases. You have this habit of doing that a lot with other series like Bleach.

 

[Antvasima]

I have read almost all of Bleach though, so I have much firmer and considered views about that than I have about the Slime verse.

I am not going to suddenly pretend like I am fine with endorsing and encouraging amoral, extremely callous, sadistic, and conscience-deprived fascist ideals just because it may inconvenience or annoy some people. If I have to endure abuse because of it, so be it.

 

[Theglassman12]

That doesn’t exactly change my point that you did make some extreme comments about Kubo’s writing and his beliefs but ok. Just don’t make these random extreme comments about other characters you don’t know about next time or the intent of the writer.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, my pattern-recognition will still be active, but if my knowledge about a verse mostly stems from our wiki and other secondhand information, I will obviously be much more open to matter of fact corrections to my impressions.

 

[Godernet]

Most of the slime is about Rimuru avoiding conflicts, trying to build a safe haven for races that are otherwise discriminated against by the larger world, forming healthy relationships with neighboring countries, and applying his knowledge of his previous world to advance his own kingdom technologically.

He doesn't really "power trip"; he gains massive power for sure, but that's due to being meticulous with his mastery of his innately strong abilities and accepting people that the wider world doesn't, who happen to have exceptional talents and abilities that aren't recognized because of what they are.

He's unironically closer to a monarch version of Luffy than Imu, replace Luffy's childlike innocence, emotional maturity, and normally nonlethal approach with a "I'll always do primarily what's best for my people" and a "If the other countries push their biases and conflicts to the point of hurting my people, there will be an even worse consequence for them." mindset.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, if he is willing to indiscriminately commit disproportionate retribution mass-murder against mostly civilians, that is an extremely tribalist, imperialist, and self-righteous evil attitude, especially given that he seems to have a vast arsenal of abilities that could likely allow for surgical assassination of only the genuine threats. But I am only going by your description here, so I am not sure about the circumstances.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Well, if he is willing to indiscriminately commit disproportionate retribution mass-murder against mostly civilians, that is an extremely tribalist, imperialist, and self-righteously evil attitude, especially given that he seems to have a vast arsenal of abilities that could likely allow for surgical assassination of only the genuine threats. But I am only going by your description here, so I am not sure about the circumstances.

When someone drops a 200,000 man strong army on your doorstep and puts like 4 of your lieutenants into the ground along with severely harming the rest of your people, peace ain't an option if you want to still have a country and people.

 

[Antvasima]

Sure, but given the sheer scope of Rimuru's and his allies' capabilities, they should easily have been able to neutralise only the enemy combatants, without any severely disproportionate indiscriminate slaughter of innocent and likely oppressed civilians. And that may very well have been the case, but it was left unclear from Godernet's description above.

 

[Godernet]

Well, if he is willing to indiscriminately commit disproportionate retribution mass-murder against mostly civilians, that is an extremely tribalist, imperialist, and self-righteous extremely evil attitude, especially given that he seems to have a vast arsenal of abilities that could likely allow for surgical assassination of only the genuine threats. But I am only going by your description here, so I am not sure about the circumstances.

To avoid cluttering up OP general with talk of another series I’ll leave it at this.

The situation you’re referring to was after he had opened his borders to other countries only to be met with soldiers assassinating several people in his nation including loved ones, a plot to destroy his country and everyone in it, along with constant discrimination and racism towards them, and other forces acting in the shadows to ensure their demise.

He did not do it because he wanted to, but because he was losing time and there was no other choice.

I’d call Rimuru a morally ambiguous character who chooses his own definition of justice, and falls more in line with the classic saying “an eye for an eye”

he’s someone who always leans towards coexistence and peace unless forced into extreme circumstances that force him to act.

Though if you disagree with that notion that’s fine, he’s still not comparable to Imu, who wants people to have no knowledge of their situation, wants to rule the world with an iron fist, and will kill whimsically should something inconvenience him

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, based on your description, Imu is considerably more evil, but if Rimuru, despite having the capabilities to easily handle things far less extremely with a slight bit of consideration, committed acts of extermination against innocent civilians, there is no valid argument against that he also qualifies as evil.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Sure, but given the sheer scope of Rimuru's and his allies' capabilities, they should easily have been able to neutralise only the enemy combatants, without any severely disproportionate indiscriminate slaughter of innocent and likely oppressed civilians. And that may very well have been the case, but it was left unclear from Godernet's description above.

Can I question, exactly when has Rimuru mass murdered and oppressed civilians when he was far stronger than an opponent? I am gonna be honest, I have a hard time finding where you got this example from.

Hell, Rimuru treats his people with respect and always tries to do his best to make sure they are happy as he can possibly make them, and he always tries his best to maintain a positive relationship with other nations. He will never choose violence as his first option.

 

[Antvasima]

As I explicitly stated, I am just analysing what I was told here by Godernet in an openended manner. I am just saying that if Rimuru did indiscriminately slaughter civilians despite having such a wide variety of surgical supernatural abilities at his disposal, and has an underlying philosophy of severely disproportionate retribution being acceptable in this regard, as Godernet seemed to heavily imply, then that is obviously a morally evil act. But I am making my evaluation in a very non-conclusive manner, in case Rimuru did not do anything of this nature.

 

[Testarossa002]

But he didn’t slaughter civilians (at least, in the 12 volumes I've read)
The one time he committed mass murder was when he eliminated an army that was responsible for killing civilians in tempest unprovoked  after he had opened the country's door to them as a show of good faith

 

[Godernet]

As I explicitly stated, I am just analysing what I was told here by Godernet in an openended manner. I am just saying that if Rimuru did indiscriminately slaughter civilians despite having such a wide variety of surgical supernatural abilities at his disposal, and has an underlying philosophy of severely disproportionate retribution being acceptable in this regard, as Godernet seemed to heavily imply, then that is obviously a morally evil act. But I am making my evaluation in a very non-conclusive manner, in case Rimuru did not do anything of this nature.

Oh yeah, to touch on that before I forget.

As far as we were aware, there were no civilians present. It was a war camp with just the 20,000 soldiers that previously invaded, killed, and pillaged in his country and the monarch of the invading country.

And he even used an ability to give them the least painful death possible, despite all that they did.

iirc He even instructed his subordinates to leave noncombatants like the monarch and the news outlets that came to the scene on hearing the news, unharmed, because ofc they weren't involved, and so that word would spread so that people would understand what happened and avoid something like this in the future.

After that situation, he didn't hold a grudge with that nation or its people and continued to strive for co-existence with their new ruler.

You're welcome to draw your own conclusion from all of this, on whether or not it was morally righteous to take revenge the way that he did or not.

In my opinion, it's not quite a black and white situation, but ofc to each their own.

I'm glad you recognize he's incomparable with Imu at the very least.

 

[Antvasima]

But he didn’t slaughter civilians (at least, in the 12 volumes I've read)
The one time he committed mass murder was when he eliminated an army that was responsible for killing civilians in tempest unprovoked  after he had opened the country's door to them as a show of good faith

Okay. Then my question seems to be answered, and I don't have any problem with that.

 

[Antvasima]

Oh yeah, to touch on that before I forget.

As far as we were aware, there were no civilians present. It was a war camp with just the 20,000 soldiers that previously invaded, killed, and pillaged in his country and the monarch of the invading country.

And he even used an ability to give them the least painful death possible, despite all that they did.

iirc He even instructed his subordinates to leave noncombatants like the monarch and the news outlets that came to the scene on hearing the news, unharmed, so that people would understand what happened and avoid something like this in the future.

After that situation, he didn't hold a grudge with that nation or its people and continued to strive for co-existence with their new ruler.

You're welcome to draw your own conclusion from all of this, on whether or not it was morally righteous to take revenge the way that he did or not.

In my opinion, it's not quite a black and white situation, but ofc to each their own.

I'm glad you recognize he's incomparable with Imu at the very least.

Okay. That seems perfectly understandable to me in that case.

 

[CodeCCLL]

This isn't something I really care about but while we're on the subject, I wonder when Ant will add back the neutral character category that he unfairly and without asking anyone removed from Rimuru's profiles.

who also seems to be a power-tripping mass-murdering narcissistic amoral regenerating tyrant,

Also, Guy Crimson took it personally that Rimuru was mentioned like that when he was around.

With the passage of time, Guy was summoned to the Central World by High human Emperor Jahil of the Super-Magic Empire. He was summoned as an archdaemon and tasked with destroying an enemy nation. Using a million corpses, Guy successfully incarnated and ascended to the rank of true demon lord, acquiring the souls of numerous people. In addition to destroying the enemy nation, he summoned Primordial Vert and Blue, ordering them to slaughter Jahil and all the residents of the Super-Magic Empire while avoiding mass destruction magic to prolong their suffering.

As Guy crushed his enemies, he relished in their doomed pleas and found it to be a pleasant sound. He named himself Guy, realizing his awakened state was needless since he already considered himself the strongest. He named his companions Misery and Rain, reflecting the misery of mankind and the rain of blood that fell wherever he went.

 

[Antvasima]

I will restore it.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I will restore it.

Get a read on a character before adding or removing catagories

I don't want to look at Garrosh's profile in a week and see "Good Characters" on it because you read somewhere he did nothing wrong lmfao

 

[Antvasima]

I have fixed it.