One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph

[SlendVeny]

Me currently I see it as, gear 5 is above any gear 4

but can also add on to his gear 5 by using gear 4 techniques aswell

basically gear 4 < gear 5 < gear 5 + gear 4

Looking back, probably.

 

[RoronoaxRobin]

Lucci vs. Zoro and Sanji? No thanks. I can already see all the slander Zoro would get if that were to happen.

Plus, it's better to make Lucci finally understand that the Straw Hats are a Yonko crew now and not the same crew he and CP9 fought in Enies Lobby if Zoro demolishes him solo.

Zoro hasn't beaten Lucci yet and already he's acknowledged the Straw Hats as a Yonko crew

 

[SlendVeny]

CP0 as a whole could probably take out a Yonkou crew tbh.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

All I can say Monkey is that Wano is coming to an end somewhat soon and the raids finally over in the anime, so if you want to catch up, now's perfect.

 

[XDragnoir]

Pretty sure no Hao G5 > no Hao G4, we just scale Lucci as only above base Buso Luffy since there's no way he scales evenly to G5 itself.

No, G5 without size amps doesn't scale to G4, as I said before G5 is merely > Base.

Also, we scale Awakened Buso Lucci = Buso G5, nothing you said here seems to line up with our scaling.

 

[SlendVeny]

No, G5 without size amps doesn't scale to G4, as I said before G5 is merely > Base.

Also, we scale Awakened Buso Lucci = Buso G5, nothing you said here seems to line up with our scaling.

I think G5 tanked Thunder Bellow Bagua.

 

[XDragnoir]

... It's just referring to gear 5th... Gear 5 has no base...

Because the people who wrote that don't have a vs debater mentality, for them G5 is G5 at all points, we are the ones who have to distinguish different amps that are at play to base our scaling on.

G5 is an amp, size amp is another one, haki is another one, etc, etc.

 

[SlendVeny]

My thoughts have completely changed, I remember this, the Bajrang Gun level LS, and this.

 

[Fireld]

I think G5 tanked Thunder Bellow Bagua.

It was a Destroyer of Death TB. Luffy was guarding by increasing the size of his forearms & using armament haki yet still got injured by it.

 

[SlendVeny]

It was a Destroyer of Death TB. Luffy was guarding by increasing the size of his forearms & using armament haki yet still got injured by it.

Right, Thunder Bellow is the one that nearly took out G4.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

G5 is an amp, size amp is another one, haki is another one, etc, etc.

... No shit?

Because the people who wrote that don't have a vs debater mentality, for them G5 is G5 at all points, we are the ones who have to distinguish different amps that are at play to base our scaling on.

I mean saying they don't have a vs debater mentality isn't the best way to put it, I'm not talking about the amps that gear 5th can do, I'm talking just gear 5 is (from what I currently know) above any gear 4

 

[SlendVeny]

We need a clean render of Bloodthirsty Kaidou so we can have an image of it as a subdivision of his Hybrid Form

 

[ZKillerz]

Do we think Garp literally blitzed Aokiji, or was that Soru?

Soru most likely

 

[ZKillerz]

CP0 as a whole could probably take out a Yonkou crew tbh.

I can see them taking out the bmp with ease
But they lose to the beast pirates

 

[ZKillerz]

actually if you consider stussy as cp0 still then nah they beat the beast pirates

 

[ByAsura]

Dont step foot in Afghanistan with a horrible take like this or its on site

Imagine thinking that giant G5 with CoC, the form that directly overpowered Kaido without even using CoA or CoC, > G4 is a horrible take.

Everyone now has my permission to bully you.

 

[Eseseso]

actually if you consider stussy as cp0 still then nah they beat the beast pirates

Stussy hasn't done anything impressive power-wise.

 

[SlendVeny]

Stussy hasn't done anything impressive power-wise.

Literally every Beast Pirate except the ninja guys uses DFs though

 

[SlendVeny]

I can see them taking out the bmp with ease
But they lose to the beast pirates

My theory is that Maha was comparable to most of the other Masked Agents.

 

[ZKillerz]

Stussy hasn't done anything impressive power-wise.

Its honestly just her one shot tech which is the problem
She's not that strong but she is decently fast, she could probably take out majority of the toppi roppo with ease

 

[ByAsura]

I see it as "G5 is a jack-of-all trades boost, and can specialize itself to surpass G4 with other techniques."

Ok, look here, look, listen. Your evil, atrocious, and downright criminal mentalities are plaguing this fine community.

• Luffy deflects a bolo breath without any amps.
• Luffy recovers from every bolo breath without lasting damage.
• Luffy takes an amped strike from Hassaikai with relatively minimal damage, despite not using any form of Haki.
• He does it again, again and again, and only gets a few cuts.
• Most notably, Kaido doesn't just get used to his strikes like he did before and eventually start taking them with minimal blood loss and pain, he always reels from that shit.

Barring certain techniques, Snakeman and Boundman could not do that shit to that level after Kaido augmented his Haki (I must stress this, because some of you are probably gonna be like 'what about the clash with base Luffy?', even when he claps every one of Luffy's stronger forms like 5 minutes later anyway), despite literally being made of Haki.

G4 < unamped G5 < G4 with certain techniques (i.e, Over-Kong Gun) < G5 with certain techniques.

IIRC, this is even confirmed in a guide book page somewhere.

 

[SlendVeny]

Ok, look here, look, listen. Your evil, atrocious, and downright criminal mentalities are plaguing this fine community.

• Luffy deflects a bolo breath without any amps.
• Luffy recovers from every bolo breath without lasting damage.
• Luffy takes an amped strike from Hassaikai with relatively minimal damage, despite not using any form of Haki.
• He does it again, again and again, and only gets a few cuts.
• Most notably, Kaido doesn't just get used to his strikes like he did before and eventually start taking them with minimal blood loss and pain, he always reels from that shit.

Barring certain techniques, Snakeman and Boundman could not do that shit to that level after Kaido augmented his Haki (I must stress this, because some of you are probably gonna be like 'what about the clash with base Luffy?', even when he claps every one of Luffy's stronger forms like 5 minutes later anyway), despite literally being made of Haki.

G4 < unamped G5 < G4 with certain techniques (i.e, Over-Kong Gun) < G5 with certain techniques.

My thoughts have completely changed, I remember this, the Bajrang Gun level LS, and this.

 

[SlendVeny]

Remember the Holy Knights?

 

[ByAsura]

Your scans don't work, btw.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Remember the Holy Knights?

theyre probably dead besides the one Chopper fought, hes running a hot spring

 

[KingTempest]

Ok, look here, look, listen. Your evil, atrocious, and downright criminal mentalities are plaguing this fine community.

• Luffy deflects a bolo breath without any amps.

Deflected one in base, and he took one before he learned advanced Haoshoku in G4th which he cliffs in base now

• Luffy recovers from every bolo breath without lasting damage.

He was doing that prior to even stronger attacks

• Luffy takes an amped strike from Hassaikai with relatively minimal damage, despite not using any form of Haki.

Took a far stronger one in base. Not an interesting feat.

• He does it again, again and again, and only gets a few cuts.

Cause of his elastic body that stops him from taking this much damage. Luffy went blow for blow with Kaido and took the same hits if not far more to a much further extent from a stronger Kaidou.

• Most notably, Kaido doesn't just get used to his strikes like he did before and eventually start taking them with minimal blood loss and pain, he always reels from that shit.

Cause Kaidou was stated to have been getting weaker.

Barring certain techniques, Snakeman and Boundman could not do that shit to that level after Kaido augmented his Haki (I must stress this, because some of you are probably gonna be like 'what about the clash with base Luffy?', even when he claps every one of Luffy's stronger forms like 5 minutes later anyway), despite literally being made of Haki.

Because Kaidou has stronger drunk forms, forms he failed to use against G5th, forms that when he started to use against Gear 5th, pressured the hell out of him

G4 < unamped G5 < G4 with certain techniques (i.e, Over-Kong Gun) < G5 with certain techniques.

Base ≤ G5 < G4 < G5 while utilizing G4th attacks < G4th's strongest moves < G5th using G4th's strongest moves < Bajrang Gun

IIRC, this is even confirmed in a guide book page somewhere.

Never has been

 

[ByAsura]

Cause of his elastic body that stops him from taking this much damage.

Kaido was literally using Haki and his weapon, which is covered in spikes that Luffy has no added resistance to.

When he used it against Luffy's other forms, that mf still compressed.

Deflected one in base, and he took one before he learned advanced Haoshoku in G4th which he cliffs in base now

Took a far stronger one in base. Not an interesting feat.

Luffy went blow for blow with Kaido and took the same hits if not far more to a much further extent from a stronger Kaidou.

I'm just going to ignore all of this because of a later argument.

He was doing that prior to even stronger attacks

I literally showed a scan of Snakeman nearly dying from a Bolo Breath.

Yeah, he could take said attacks before, my entire point was that it wasn't to the same level as G5.

Because Kaidou has stronger drunk forms, forms he failed to use against G5th, forms that when he started to use against Gear 5th, pressured the hell out of him

I don't get what you're saying here. You say 'he failed to use against G5', but then 'he started to use against G5'. Can you rephrase this?

Plus, your points blatantly contradict themselves. You're claiming that Luffy in base took far stronger attacks, so how in the holy hell is a form stronger than at least most of Luffy's other Gears damaged by a weaker technique from Kaido even with supposed help from his elastic body? Obviously Kaido's Haki is still stronger than before.

Never has been

I'll go look for it.

 

[ByAsura]

Base ≤ G5 < G4 < G5 while utilizing G4th attacks < G4th's strongest moves < G5th using G4th's strongest moves < Bajrang Gun

I didn't see this before, because I was busy.

This is just... I don't even know what to say. G5 is roughly equal to Luffy's base form?

Nah. Nah bro. I legit can't continue this argument in good faith.

 

[KingTempest]

Kaido was literally using Haki and his weapon, which is covered in spikes that Luffy has no added resistance to.

When he used it against Luffy's other forms, that mf still compressed.

Luffy's rubber physique in his gear 5th self doesn't stop him from taking damage, but it allows him to mitigate the damage by morphing his body around it.
And Luffy didn't compress. He put his head down after getting slammed in his head.

And weirdly enough, the kaifu you sent in the first sentence, Luffy deflected one of those kaifu that hurt him in Gear 5th in base.

I'm just going to ignore all of this because of a later argument.

I literally showed a scan of Snakeman nearly dying from a Bolo Breath.

Context is missed.
Snakeman was chomped badly, then he was blasted through the entire island by a Boro Breath.
He had the longest contact with a Boro Breath that we've seen so far. Everybody else was just covered for a few seconds, but he was engulfed for a long period of time and pushed through the island from it.

Luffy's first time getting hit by a Boro Breath was so significant that Luffy was flexing how useless it was after he got hit.

Yeah, he could take said attacks before, my entire point was that it wasn't to the same level as G5.

They were very relative

I don't get what you're saying here. You say 'he failed to use against G5', but then 'he started to use against G5'. Can you rephrase this?

"Failed to use against Gear 5th"
For most of the fight against Gear 5th, Kaidou didn't use his drunk or super hybrid forms, and he was relatively equal to Gear 5th
"He started to use against Gear 5th"
He later started to use it, which chased away Luffy and made him pull out the bajrang gun

Plus, your points blatantly contradict themselves. You're claiming that Luffy in base took far stronger attacks, so how in the holy hell is a form stronger than at least most of Luffy's other Gears damaged by a weaker technique from Kaido? Obviously Kaido's Haki is still stronger than before.

Because.
Gear 5th isn't stronger than most of Luffy's other gears.
Gear 5th increases his strength. It doesn't increase it above Luffy's amped forms.
Luffy can amplify himself in Gear 5th to the same extent that he can in base, but he doesn't scale to the forms Luffy amps himself to prior to Gear 5th.

I didn't see this before, because I was busy.

This is just... I don't even know what to say. G5 is roughly equal to Luffy's base form?

Nah. Nah bro. I can't continue this argument in good faith.

No enhancement Gear 5th is barely superior to Base Luffy, and because of his abilities (muscle muscle, compression, lightning throwing, dura negation and attack reflection via rubberization), he doesn't need to hit as hard as Gear 4th or even 3rd.

Luffy in Gear 5th doesn't hit as hard as those other forms. He's barely superior to his base in AP and dura.
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/op_Shuron_1037_005.pnghttps://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/op_nextlvl_1045_011.png

https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/op_Shuron_1037_011.pnghttps://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/op_1046_tcb_raizo_004.png

https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/opc_1026_012.pnghttps://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/op_tcb_1047_007.png

Get over the thought of Gear 5th punching harder than Gear 4th. His entire showcase was even less impressive than Gear 2nd+3rd vs Kaidou

 

[ByAsura]

Too much text. I'll maybe address this shit later (if I feel well enough for it) since, like I said, I'm busy. I'm currently looking for the specific page and doing some other revisions.

 

[SlendVeny]

theyre probably dead besides the one Chopper fought, hes running a hot spring

I meant the God's Knights the World Government uses

 

[SlendVeny]

Dragon really got like 6 buddies and went "yeah, we can topple this empire."

 

[HollowVanity]

Imagine thinking that giant G5 with CoC, the form that directly overpowered Kaido without even using CoA or CoC, > G4 is a horrible take.

Everyone now has my permission to bully you.

Erm thats it pal, as a person whos caught up to episode 150 I MIGHT let you live when I catch you lacking, pull up to the somali ocean so we can settle this beef

 

[Deceived3596]

Who is winning and why.

 

[Eseseso]

Who is winning and why.

King via durability too tough for Shiryu to bypass, Jackpot if Shiryu tries to stab him, flames, and overall being a cooler character.

 

[XDragnoir]

I literally showed a scan of Snakeman nearly dying from a Bolo Breath.

Something I few like adding, is that Snakeman is weaker than G3, in case you didn't know, so bringing it up doesn't add to "G5 is > Boundman".

Snakeman by itself is an amp around G2, probably a bit above, SM with "charged" (after bouncing around) attacks is more in line with G3 or maybe Boundman normal attacks, I'd have to check to be sure tho.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Who is winning and why.

Going off of what he's shown up until now, the only way Shiryu actually legitimately threatens and kills King is through invis+Buso to backstab King through the heart while King has his flames off. Outside of that, all Shiryu can hope is to run around with his invis and try to dodge Kings attacks.

Cool matchup though, and I love the art.

 

[SnookB]

I didn't see this before, because I was busy.

This is just... I don't even know what to say. G5 is roughly equal to Luffy's base form?

Nah. Nah bro. I legit can't continue this argument in good faith.

I do agree here. I think the statement "Wakening brings his rubbery body greater physical strength and freedom." alone implies he's stronger than anything his body could 'naturally' do. That does exclude gear 4 (since it's a haki-specific form), but not G3/G2

 

[Eseseso]

1. G5 ate the same Shuron Hakke Super Hybrid Ragnarok attack that nearly took out G4 Luffy (he struggled to keep the air in his body).

2. IMO this wiki overhypes Over-Kong Gun, it knocked Kaido out for like 2 seconds before he went Super Hybrid.

 

[KingTempest]

I do agree here. I think the statement "Wakening brings his rubbery body greater physical strength and freedom." alone implies he's stronger than anything his body could 'naturally' do. That does exclude gear 4 (since it's a haki-specific form), but not G3/G2

Gear 3rd isn't natural. Neither is Gear 2nd.
His Gears specifically bring his strength above its natural limits.
You need to remember that Luffy's gears is a luffy specific invention that he made to surpass his body. Turning his body into a steam engine is not natural, nor is blowing air through rubber bones.

Bringing it greater physical strength means giving the regular state greater physical strength