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Hmm?
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One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph
- Thread starter KingTempest
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No mind
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I'm assuming that's Light Novel info? Or the drawn by Boichi chapter?
In that case, you know better. Didn't read it.
Either way, this whole notion that the gap betweent he Tobiroppo and Calamities is so huge that Jinbe would be considered trash is flat out redundant, especially when the stronger members of the Tobiroppo want to take on calamities for their positions.
Narratively speaking, they aren't fodder to calamities. Based on scale, Ulti took a Luffy hit, Thunder Bagua from Yamato, Maser Cannon (from a YONKO) and still got back up to chase Nami. They're weaker, YES. But fodder? Absolutely not.
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I mean Jack is fodder to Queen and King, dude can't even look them in the eye out of fear.
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All it takes is one fishing pole and he's done.
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Doesn't look or sound like fear. He's being treated like a screw up that's getting scoled by older siblings, and calling them "Big brothers" is a sign of respect than fear.
King talks down to Queen as well. That doesn't mean Queen is fodder to King.
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Vivre cards said that.
Doesn't look or sound like fear. He's being treated like a screw up that's getting scoled by older siblings, and calling them "Big brothers" is a sign of respect than fear.
King talks down to Queen as well. That doesn't mean Queen is fodder to King.
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Both
An injured Jack thought he had a better chance against scabbards than the Tobiroppo. That says a lot.
Base Luffy hit, who has no good feats
From base Yamato with her handcuffs on without indication of Haoshoku Haki
Which completely pierced through her body and she only got back up because of Zoan endurance
Absolutely
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"Although Jack is strong, he is treated like a child by his two brothers, and can't look at them in the eye."
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What part of that says he's afraid? That just seems like Jack gets treated like child because he's far younger than the two. Which he is.
An injured Jack said not to touch them because he had a vendetta against three of them. He's been proven to be stubborn, as he didn't back down when seeing Tsuru, Sengoku and Fujitora. Came back to kill Zunisha when he already was told Raizo wasn't there. And we literally see him thinking about Raizo, Neko and Inu when telling BM not to go, indicating outside of the other scabbards he couldn't care less and just wanted to settle it with the three he had a vendetta against.
Base Luffy who's strong enough to tank a thunder Bagua that G4 Luffy got knocked out of his senses by.
Base Yamato who can block gear third Luffy's attack.
???? Her endurance is an attribute of hers. Her enduring it and continuing is STILL her not getting one shot by a Yonko.
Again. Agree to disagree.
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I'm tired of this.
He never said "I have a vendetta, let me at them". He said "The Tobiroppo aren't strong enough". This is just headcanon at this point.
Jack says they're too weak. Simple.
Tank my ass, he dodged a portion of it.
And this would be durability.
You wanna tell me Base Ulti's taking a Thunder Bagua? Really?
What does Luffy have to do with any of this?
Luffy prior to Gear Fourth and Haoshoku Haki is weaker than Sanji as well
She got KO'd, she just got back up, like all Ancient Zoans in Wano do. Queen got 2 shot by Linlin and was KO'd.
I can't
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What? Not being able to look someone in the eye is literally a sign of fear and it's a sign of fear due to the strength difference which is why it made note of the fact "although Jack is strong".
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King
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Jack says too weak yet the panel shows he is ONLY FIXATED ON 3??? Who COINCIDENTALLY are the three who he got tricked by at Zou?
He says they aren't strong enough, yet King disagrees by letting BM do it. Honestly, it's interpertation at this point and neither of us will agree on how that's taken.
So the Tobiroppo are fodder to Linlin, yet the difference between Queen and Ulti is a one hit. Queen needing a LESSER attack to get KO'd, mind you.
Without the Raid Suit??? Gonna need a lot of evidence for that.
You're disagreeing with me right now. The spirit's there.
If anything "although he's strong" implies he isn't weak to them, he's just unable to look them in the eyes because they view him as a child. They're his elders.
If he can't look them in the eyes yet does so with Kaido, then Kaido< King and Queen? It's more about them demanding respect because they're older, while Kaido doesn't care about that and treats Jack like a crewmate, not a kid.
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Who says he does so with Kaido? When Kaido appeared in Kuri he was in fear. Them being older makes no difference either, there are tobiroppo members as old or older than him and he shows them no where near the "respect" he shows King and Queen, being "elders" means nothing as the Beast Pirates are a Meritocracy system. Queen is older than King but it's not like he's viewed as a child by King or is given respect due to his age.
It's a pretty simple statement to understand, I don't know why you're trying to create loopholes to the actual meaning.
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Nothing suggests he avoids eye contact with Kaido. He's shown standing in the same room just fine, and communicated with Kaido alright when he showed up to defend Kaido on the roof.
And yes, Queen is 56. King is 47. Jack is 28. The gap between Jack and King is more than ten years than it is between Queen and King.
It's not loopholes, it's a discussion. Saying he's afraid is equal of a reach as saying he isn't, because it isn't specified. We know the calamities aren't too far apart either because of Jack's ridiculous endurance despite everything he took on. For him to be fodder to King and Queen, means they should be able to low diff him, which the scaling itself wouldn't allow.
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It's not interpretation.
Someone says they're too weak, another shows desperation for them to be killed.
Ulti got shot by a laser which pierced her stomach. She didn't take fullbody pain, unlike Queen who was getting slammed around
You don't scale like that. That's dogshit scaling.
Someone having a durability rating doesn't mean people scale to their AP.
If I took a punch from Whitebeard then you match a punch from me, you don't scale to Whitebeard.
Sanji was kicking around Zoan and Hybrid Queen who easily bit and held Luffy.
Without the Raid Suit??? Gonna need a lot of evidence for that.
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Someone says they're too weak while showing obvious side motives.
???? Getting slammed around is FAR LESS than getting literally pierced throguh when you consider Queen's statements of his body being durable that even Diable Jambe couldn't hurt him that much.
When you're talking about a character who's ALL PHYSICAL, they can't absorb more than what they can dish out unless they're literally designed to. Like Luffy who's durability is higher than his AP should be because of his body's nature.
He kicked Zoan Queen with impressive effect once, when his body hit Persopero. Everything else has been queen laughing at Sanji while asking for the Raid Suit.
"Held Luffy"? You mean bit him mid-air while he was off guard and threw him down again?
Queen so far has been no selling every Sanji attack. SO FAR. Most if not all of his attacks were before the newest amp after all.
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Ok but Shirahoshi solos everyone in one piece... Only she can manipulate and order sea kings... 
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He's shown standing in the same room as King and Queen, so clearly standing in the same vicinity/room doesn't matter. Point is though he's afraid of Kaido (As shown in Kuri) which is the point the vivre card is making.
All this shows is that he's not doing it out of respect for people's ages, like that's never been an aspect of his character nor anyone elses in the beast pirates.
Not looking someone in the eye and being treated as a child (despite not being a child) are both common phrases used to describe a difference in ability and fear, Jack respecting age and not looking them in the eye is not supported at all anywhere.
How do we know that?
How so, Sulong Inu/Neko low diffed him.
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Someone says they're too weak.
Regardless of his side motives, he called em weak, which hasn't been disproven
Get shot in the toe vs getting punched in the head.
And DJ hurt him badly. Idk what
That's not how we work on this wiki, which is why we separate AP and Dura. You can have country level dura with building level AP.
And blocked several of his attacks, matched several of his attacks, intercepted many of his attacks, and fought him for a long period of time.
You mean intercepted his charge to the roof and stopped him from going up?
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Su Long Inu/Neko and an army of Sulong minks, you mean.
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This is not ok...
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Unless his side is obvious bias towards himself, for reasons that are made all too clear narratively.
Get pierced through the Torso by fire/Lightning vs getting slammed around by an amnesiac big Mom who's unaware of how strong she actually is.
If it did he wouldn't be practically toying with Sanji so far.
If your AP comes from your body and nothing else, then logically your body can output similiarly to what it can take in. As far as I've seen this weak treats AP and dura as equals when the characters' feats are pysical, or not brought on by certain amps/Techniques.
"Fought him". He fought a queen that was literally playing with him and scaring him so he uses his Raid Suit. Queen hasn't yet fought seriously. The only reason Sanji got squished by Queen is because he accidentally shot his own body while constricting Sanji, because seconds before he was still offering to let go if Sanji agrees to let him in on the Germa Science stuff.
A linear charge, while he was right in his face doing it, giving him all the time to witness Luffy call Zoro, get ready, then launch. Queen had all the time to intercept Luffy slingshotting himself.
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Yeah I'm ignoring this point now.
You're just ignoring the statement and justifying it by "they had a history".
You know what durability is right?
Big Mom overcame Ulti's durability but didn't overcome Queen's easily.
This wiki does not treat AP and Dura as equal. I don't know who lied to you.
We scale off feats.
We scale Dura above striking, that's the only correlation.
You can fight someone seriously and joke around, you know that right?
Everything you just said is useless. Queen still overpowered em and stopped the force.
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I'm not justifying anything. It's literally on the page. He was saying it just so he can get to the three he had history with and the last panel proves it.
To stress it:
Every character I've seen almost has Dura that goes hand in hand with their AP, save for a very few exceptions. Most of the justifications are "can take hits from character B, who in turn can hurt them" or something like it.
It's a fight when you fight. When Queen is showing off his science in the background, STOPPING TO NEGOTIATE, and actively missing his laser beams after Sanji started running again to scare him into using the suit, it isn't a fight.
The force of what? Luffy flinging his body? It isn't like Queen stopped an attack from Luffy in Onigashima. Luffy got bit and thrown back down immidiately, it isn't like there was a struggle where Luffy tried breaking out then got forced into the ground by Queen. The reach with this argument is ridiculous.
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Stefano4444
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YOU HAVE NO IDEA KEKW
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You know Sanji scales above G3 Late WCI onwards right? Luffy without G4 isn't stronger than Late WCI Base Sanji, granted, Post-Kata G3 should be above Sanji (but not by much), but then he got DJ, then if we use Raid feats Sanji is > G3 again in base until Luffy gets Hao coating.
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Garp bled from Dadan's punches. Absolute fodder confirmedFodder.
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Kaido is getting internal damage from Killer and Law - who most likely have weaker haki than Whitebeard
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Wasn't PageOne trucking through Raid Suit Sanji's attacks, while G3 knocked his senses out for a bit, and he even claimed it dislocated his jaw, which Raid Suit Sanji has done nothing close to??
Then again that's post-Udon Luffy- nevermind, actually.
