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One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph

SlendVeny said:
I'd say:

-Kaidou: He and King know each other's abilities, but he'd probably need Hybrid to overpower King, and couldn't really destroy him without significant boosts atop that. Marco's regen is gonna make him hard to kill, same with Sabo. Now, Kaido's only real chance is if he got really drunk or used Kaen Daiko.

-Big Mom: No chance without taking off a few years of her life.

-Blackbeard: I doubt he could beat King in a 1v1 without nearly dying.

-Primebeard: Stomps.

-Shanks: I'm not fully sure, but I believe him to be inferior here, since he only scales from Oldbeard currently.

-Oldbeard: Nah.

-Sickbeard: L + Ratio + No chances.

-Luffy: Lower odds than Kaidou or Big Mom.

-Buggy: Buggy.
Click to expand...
Imo:

Kaido: As you mentioned, Kaido and King know each others abilities, so it's possible that Kaido could use his Hybrid Form to overpower King. But its also possible that King could put up a good fight against Kaido, especially if Kaido is not in his best condition.

Big Mom: It's unlikely that Big Mom could defeat King without sacrificing some of her lifespan, as you mentioned. But its possible that she could put up a good fight against him.

Blackbeard: Its difficult to say how BB would fare against King, but its possible that he could defeat him with his unique DF powers and strategic fighting style.

Primebeard: It's likely that PB would be able to defeat King, given his legendary status and immense strength.

Shanks: It's dificult to say how Shanks would fare against King, but its possible that he could put up a good fight against him, especially if he has some tricks up his sleeve.

Oldbeard: It's unlikely that Oldbeard could defeat King at this point, given his advanced age and weakened state.

Sickbeard: It's highly unlikely that Sickbeard would stand a chance against King, given his deteriorating health.

Luffy exluding Gear 5: It's possible that Luffy could defeat King with his powerful Haki and G4 forms, but it would likely be a difficult fight.

Buggy: As you said Buggy is Buggy so its hard to say how he would fare against King🙈
 
TheMonkeMan said:
Btw I don't understand why King wears that suit all the time.
I can't imagine it's too comfortable and it's not like people are gonna come after him for his Lunarian genes given how strong and durable he is.
Plus he's already guarded by one of the strongest characters in the series, not to mention people will always see his black wings and the flame on his back anyway.
Click to expand...
1. Tradition: It's possible that wearing the suit is a tradition or cultural norm among the Lunarians, and King chooses to uphold it out of respect for his heritage

2. Personal Preference: King might simply prefer wearing the suit, either for comfort or aesthetics

3. Symbolism: The suit could be a symbolic representation of King's position as one of Kaido's top commanders and he wears it to show his loyalty and dedication to his role.

4. Protection: The suit could provide aome sort of protection or enhancement to King's abilities and he wears it to give him an edge in battle

Its possible that a combination of these factors could be at play
 
2 minor things:

1. I just checked, and Stussy only actually got out the seastone lipstick (as in visible opening it and preparing it) before she fought Base Lucci, and it wouldn't make sense for her to use it, put it away for no reason, and then get it out again. So IMO she didn't use it on Kaku since she had the element of surprise.

2. If I had to list what "level" Kaku and Lucci were, IMO it'd be something like this:

Kaku:
  • Base: At least YC3 level, possibly YC2 level (Is =< Base no-Haki Zoro, who downscales from 1-sword King and is =< Zoan Queen's durability)
  • Rokushiki: At least YC2 level, possibly YC1 level (Matched S-Hawk, who alarmed Blackbeard and matched Nitoryu Buso Zoro [who himself matched Base Buso King] with his Rankyaku).
    • His Hybrid and Hybrid Rokushiki just scale above this
  • Awakened Kaku: Likely YC1 level (Did better against Post-King fight Santoryu Buso Zoro than Buso King himself and S-Hawk, even if Zoro beat him back).
Honestly, the scaling is rather consistent:

Buso Nitoryu Zoro = S-Hawk = Rokushiki Kaku < Awakened Kaku =< Santoryu Buso Zoro (If only because their fight didn't get a proper conclusion like Lucci vs Luffy, although Zoro would've still probably won).

Lucci:
  • Base: Likely YC2 level at the lowest, possibly higher (Scales above Base Kaku and Guernica, the latter of whom easily beat Hybrid Drake and did more damage to an on-guard Apoo using Buso than a pissed Base Kidd w/ Punk Gibson did to an Apoo who didn't see him coming)
  • Rokushiki: At least YC2 level, possibly YC1 level (His Rokushiki should scale >= to Kaku's like pre-TS, and he is the strongest agent in CP0 so he likely has the best Rokushiki of any agent like in Enies Lobby)
  • Hybrid: At least YC1 level, possibly YC1+/Admiral level (Comparable to G4 Luffy w/ No Hao, who scales above both his No-Hao base and his Post-Udon Gear 4 which both damaged Zoan Kaido)
    • His Hybrid Rokushiki just scales above this.
  • Awakened Lucci: At least YC1 level, possibly YC1+/Admiral level (Come on, we all know why. He did as well against a Yonko as Marco did, but did notably worse than the likes of Law, Kidd, and Yamato. Also much stronger than his Hybrid).
 
Last edited:
"Why do you hate Lucci wankers so much?"
Lucci wankers:
Eseseso said:
2 minor things:

1. I just checked, and Stussy only actually got out the seastone lipstick (as in visible opening it and preparing it) before she fought Base Lucci, and it wouldn't make sense for her to use it, put it away for no reason, and then get it out again. So IMO she didn't use it on Kaku since she had the element of surprise.

2. If I had to list what "level" Kaku and Lucci were, IMO it'd be something like this:

Kaku:
  • Base: At least YC3 level, possibly YC2 level (Is =< Base no-Haki Zoro, who downscales from 1-sword King and is =< Zoan Queen's durability)
  • Rokushiki: At least YC2 level, possibly YC1 level (Matched S-Hawk, who alarmed Blackbeard and matched Nitoryu Buso Zoro [who himself matched Base Buso King] with his Rankyaku).
    • His Hybrid and Hybrid Rokushiki just scale above this
  • Awakened Kaku: Likely YC1 level (Did better against Post-King fight Santoryu Buso Zoro than Buso King himself and S-Hawk, even if Zoro beat him back).
Honestly, the scaling is rather consistent:

Buso Nitoryu Zoro = S-Hawk = Rokushiki Kaku < Awakened Kaku =< Santoryu Buso Zoro (If only because their fight didn't get a proper conclusion like Lucci vs Luffy, although Zoro would've still probably won).

Lucci:
  • Base: Likely YC2 level at the lowest, possibly higher (Scales above Base Kaku and Guernica, the latter of whom easily beat Hybrid Drake and did more damage to an on-guard Apoo using Buso than a pissed Base Kidd w/ Punk Gibson did to an Apoo who didn't see him coming)
  • Rokushiki: At least YC2 level, possibly YC1 level (His Rokushiki should scale >= to Kaku's like pre-TS, and he is the strongest agent in CP0 so he likely has the best Rokushiki of any agent like in Enies Lobby)
  • Hybrid: At least YC1 level, possibly YC1+/Admiral level (Comparable to G4 Luffy w/ No Hao, who scales above both his No-Hao base and his Post-Udon Gear 4 which both damaged Zoan Kaido)
    • His Hybrid Rokushiki just scales above this.
  • Awakened Lucci: At least YC1 level, possibly YC1+/Admiral level (Come on, we all know why. He did as well against a Yonko as Marco did, but did notably worse than the likes of Law, Kidd, and Yamato. Also much stronger than his Hybrid).
Click to expand...
 
Eseseso said:
2 minor things:

1. I just checked, and Stussy only actually got out the seastone lipstick (as in visible opening it and preparing it) before she fought Base Lucci, and it wouldn't make sense for her to use it, put it away for no reason, and then get it out again. So IMO she didn't use it on Kaku since she had the element of surprise.

2. If I had to list what "level" Kaku and Lucci were, IMO it'd be something like this:

Kaku:
  • Base: At least YC3 level, possibly YC2 level (Is =< Base no-Haki Zoro, who downscales from 1-sword King and is =< Zoan Queen's durability)
  • Rokushiki: At least YC2 level, possibly YC1 level (Matched S-Hawk, who alarmed Blackbeard and matched Nitoryu Buso Zoro [who himself matched Base Buso King] with his Rankyaku).
    • His Hybrid and Hybrid Rokushiki just scale above this
  • Awakened Kaku: Likely YC1 level (Did better against Post-King fight Santoryu Buso Zoro than Buso King himself and S-Hawk, even if Zoro beat him back).
Honestly, the scaling is rather consistent:

Buso Nitoryu Zoro = S-Hawk = Rokushiki Kaku < Awakened Kaku =< Santoryu Buso Zoro (If only because their fight didn't get a proper conclusion like Lucci vs Luffy, although Zoro would've still probably won).

Lucci:
  • Base: Likely YC2 level at the lowest, possibly higher (Scales above Base Kaku and Guernica, the latter of whom easily beat Hybrid Drake and did more damage to an on-guard Apoo using Buso than a pissed Base Kidd w/ Punk Gibson did to an Apoo who didn't see him coming)
  • Rokushiki: At least YC2 level, possibly YC1 level (His Rokushiki should scale >= to Kaku's like pre-TS, and he is the strongest agent in CP0 so he likely has the best Rokushiki of any agent like in Enies Lobby)
  • Hybrid: At least YC1 level, possibly YC1+/Admiral level (Comparable to G4 Luffy w/ No Hao, who scales above both his No-Hao base and his Post-Udon Gear 4 which both damaged Zoan Kaido)
    • His Hybrid Rokushiki just scales above this.
Click to expand...
Not really sure about this but Kaku's scaling is solid.
Lucci might be YC1, not sure because his only feat is that clash with G5 Luffy ( which you can sort of chalk up to being a callback but it might not negate the fact that it's canon plus he doesn't have many anti-feats sadly ) and being called the strongest CP0 agent ( putting him over Guernica and Kaku ).
But he definitely isn't Admiral level, the Admirals are some of the strongest characters bar the Yonko, some YC1s ( like Zoro ), people who are equal or relative to the Yonko, and Yamato.
 
Darkvie123 said:
Imo:

Kaido: As you mentioned, Kaido and King know each others abilities, so it's possible that Kaido could use his Hybrid Form to overpower King. But its also possible that King could put up a good fight against Kaido, especially if Kaido is not in his best condition.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but King isn't the only one.
Darkvie123 said:
Big Mom: It's unlikely that Big Mom could defeat King without sacrificing some of her lifespan, as you mentioned. But its possible that she could put up a good fight against him.
Click to expand...
Still isn't just King.
Darkvie123 said:
Blackbeard: Its difficult to say how BB would fare against King, but its possible that he could defeat him with his unique DF powers and strategic fighting style.
Click to expand...
Debatable, albeit possible.
Darkvie123 said:
Primebeard: It's likely that PB would be able to defeat King, given his legendary status and immense strength.
Click to expand...
Yeah.
Darkvie123 said:
Shanks: It's dificult to say how Shanks would fare against King, but its possible that he could put up a good fight against him, especially if he has some tricks up his sleeve.
Click to expand...
Yeah.
Darkvie123 said:
Oldbeard: It's unlikely that Oldbeard could defeat King at this point, given his advanced age and weakened state.

Sickbeard: It's highly unlikely that Sickbeard would stand a chance against King, given his deteriorating health.
Click to expand...
Yes.
Darkvie123 said:
Luffy exluding Gear 5: It's possible that Luffy could defeat King with his powerful Haki and G4 forms, but it would likely be a difficult fight.
Click to expand...
I would suspect G4 Luffy to be about on par with King, perhaps somewhat weaker.
Darkvie123 said:
Buggy: As you said Buggy is Buggy so its hard to say how he would fare against King🙈
Click to expand...
Buggy
 
Eseseso said:
Buso Nitoryu Zoro = S-Hawk = Rokushiki Kaku < Awakened Kaku =< Santoryu Buso Zoro (If only because their fight didn't get a proper conclusion like Lucci vs Luffy, although Zoro would've still probably won).
Click to expand...
Also, One Leg Rokushiki Kaku = One Sword Iai Zoro >= One-Sword Zoro, because it's just the same attacks but faster.
 
TheMonkeMan said:
Not really sure about this but Kaku's scaling is solid.
Lucci might be YC1, not sure because his only feat is that clash with G5 Luffy ( which you can sort of chalk up to being a callback but it might not negate the fact that it's canon plus he doesn't have many anti-feats sadly ) and being called the strongest CP0 agent ( putting him over Guernica and Kaku ).
But he definitely isn't Admiral level, the Admirals are some of the strongest characters bar the Yonko, some YC1s ( like Zoro ), people who are equal or relative to the Yonko, and Yamato.
Click to expand...
I mean, he clashed with G5 Luffy, and both were using Haki. I sincerely doubt the admirals scale that high. I'm sure they will, but not yet.
 
SlendVeny said:
I mean, he clashed with G5 Luffy, and both were using Haki. I sincerely doubt the admirals scale that high. I'm sure they will, but not yet.
Click to expand...
Yeah but on the flip side he got rocked to sleep by 3 relatively basic attacks from G5 Luffy.
Plus it seems Sentomaru could actually temporarily stop his attack, definitely not high/top tier behavior.
Like say what you will about the Admirals but Akainu was getting clapped up by Sickbeard and still endured it and even dealt his own blows.
Lucci hasn't done anything like that yet.
 
TheMonkeMan said:
Yeah but on the flip side he got rocked to sleep by 3 relatively basic attacks from G5 Luffy.
Click to expand...
Fair enough
TheMonkeMan said:
Plus it seems Sentomaru could actually temporarily stop his attack, definitely not high/top tier behavior.
Click to expand...
I think that's more of a bonus for Sentomaru tbh.
TheMonkeMan said:
Like say what you will about the Admirals but Akainu was getting clapped up by Sickbeard and still endured it and even dealt his own blows.
Lucci hasn't done anything like that yet.
Click to expand...
Isn't Luffy leagues above Sickbeard?
 
SlendVeny said:
Fair enough

I think that's more of a bonus for Sentomaru tbh.

Isn't Luffy leagues above Sickbeard?
Click to expand...
I mean most of his G5 scaling is from him using Advanced Armament+Conq plus things like "Gomu Gomu no Gigant", which he never used against Lucci ( most he did was make his head big to chew up the ground and spit rocks at him ), so Lucci wouldn't really scale to people like Kaidou through that anyway.
 
SlendVeny said:
Is Luffy legit that much better than Zoro? I assumed G5 Luffy and En-O Zoro were at pretty similar levels.
Click to expand...
It's mostly just that KoH Zoro sort of exists in a bit of vacuum and we don't really know where he compares in relation to Kaido and Luffy. Since Luffy and Kaido have higher scaling chains, we assume that they're greater, but KoH could be better than how we rate him as for all we know (similar to Ifrit Jambe).
 
The annoying part is the fact that Luffy and Kaido gain/use power amps but they are both still relative even with these power amps outside of a select few (Super Hybrid Kaido).

Anything past Hybrid Kaido w/CoC coating and before Flame Dragon Kaido and Bajrang Gun seems muddled to me.
 
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