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KingTempest

He/Him
VS Battles
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Shouldn't be a short CRT, yet it's OP, and we've seen how that's been lately so w/e.

When it comes to combination attacks, we have strict standards on them.
For combination attacks, similar standards to multipliers apply. It should not be assumed that a combination attack performed by multiple characters has Attack Potency equal to the sum of the participating characters Attack Potency unless there is specific evidence for it.

So yeah.

Disclaimer​

We mainly use Stephen Paul's translations prior to chapter 546 because of the bad Viz translations, and from him being the new translator for Viz after the timeskip, his translations have been deemed the official ones (since technically he is Viz for One Piece).

Example 1​

In real life, we know that attacking with 2 arms wouldn't be the force of 1 arm x 2 because of the issues of precision and such. Please don't argue with me on this point, cause I'm trying to disprove it for the series.

In One Piece, we are given a statement of Oars' attack power getting split in half when one of his arms are restricted (Stephen's translation), Chapter 477.
This can be taken for all humans in One Piece since Chopper mainly studies humans, and he's basing this logic off of the human biology, which he is an expert with.

This was stated after the showing of Oars' Gomu Gomu no Bazooka in 476, where Oars uses 2 arms for his attack.

And when it comes to precision, especially with a character 67 meters tall, it wouldn't have that much weight on an attack.

So Oars is one piece of proof for 2 limbs = 2x 1 limb power wise, which seemingly supports the point because the other limb could count as a separate organism attacking.

Example 2​

Don Krieg uses a spear and a bomb shield attached to the spear.

Luffy says that when he breaks the spear, the power of the weapon is split in half (Stephen's translation), Chapter 65.

The weapons aren't inside one another, they're beside each other, yet when they attack a foe and explode their force is combined, proven from when 1 is broken, the power is halved.

So Krieg is one piece of proof that 2 united weapons = 2x 1 weapon power wise.

Example 3​

Roronoa Zoro, who uses 3 swords, has an attack called 108 Pound Phoenix/Cannon.
When he uses 2 swords, its called 72 Pound Phoenix/Cannon.
When he uses 1 sword, its called 36 Pound Phoenix/Cannon.

People could easily say "it's dependent on the amount of swords", which is a valid argument, but it isn't true.

When he is alongside Luffy, who has no swords at all, he initially dubs his attack 216 pound siege cannon. They only call it 300 because saying 216 is too long.
Luffy is stated by the databooks (Databook Yellow to be exact) to be his equal in power. The only thing that makes Luffy and Zoro have comparable that would make him double his attack name is their attack power.

So this proves that the naming of Zoro's pound cannons are from the force of the attacks being added up. Luffy, Zoro's equal, thinks of doubling the number behind Zoro's attack, and the only thing that'd make him do that is power.

Additional Proof​

Zoro, Luffy, and Sanji use a combined attack called the 600 pound cannon. Used in Sabaody, after Thriller Bark.
Thriller Bark, Zoro got Shusui, which was stated to be several times stronger than his previous sword's strength. On a lowball 3x, making it 3x36 + 36 + 36, or 180.
The other MTrio members are portrayed to be comparable to Zoro in that instance, making them both additional 180s, or at least around that level. That'd make the attack 540 in total (which is a long name, which could be the reason why they rounded the name to 600).

Another showing of combined attacks = combined power.

Conclusion​

Combined attacks in One Piece should have added Potency, so attacks like the 600 Pound Cannon, Heavy Gong, Super Frapper Gong, and more, should be equal to the combined force of the users.
 
Looks good, wouldn't this also bring back Zoro's old Asura multiplier?
Pretty much

Edit: Well, more than that.

Things like Cracker's biscuit soldiers would get stronger the more limbs they have, Luffy's techniques with 2 limbs would be twice as strong than with 1 (Oars has his shadow so the logic applies to him), things of that nature.
 
I already talk about this on FB, and planning to do this, but the OP also better than My Explanation, so 100% Agree.
 
Makes sense to me, I mean it’s blatantly obvious 108 Pound Cannon should be 3x greater than 36 Pound Cannon

And Zoro explicitly states that using Three Sword Style is more than just wielding Three Swords, it’s about amplifying the power of the user
 
36 pound to 360 pound
72 pound to 720 pound
108 pound to 1080 pound
Looks like 10 times stronger than before?
 
Shouldn't be a short CRT, yet it's OP, and we've seen how that's been lately so w/e.

When it comes to combination attacks, we have strict standards on them.


So yeah.

Disclaimer​

We mainly use Stephen Paul's translations prior to chapter 546 because of the bad Viz translations, and from him being the new translator for Viz after the timeskip, his translations have been deemed the official ones (since technically he is Viz for One Piece).

Example 1​

In real life, we know that attacking with 2 arms wouldn't be the force of 1 arm x 2 because of the issues of precision and such. Please don't argue with me on this point, cause I'm trying to disprove it for the series.

In One Piece, we are given a statement of Oars' attack power getting split in half when one of his arms are restricted (Stephen's translation), Chapter 477.
This can be taken for all humans in One Piece since Chopper mainly studies humans, and he's basing this logic off of the human biology, which he is an expert with.

This was stated after the showing of Oars' Gomu Gomu no Bazooka in 476, where Oars uses 2 arms for his attack.

And when it comes to precision, especially with a character 67 meters tall, it wouldn't have that much weight on an attack.

So Oars is one piece of proof for 2 limbs = 2x 1 limb power wise, which seemingly supports the point because the other limb could count as a separate organism attacking.

Example 2​

Don Krieg uses a spear and a bomb shield attached to the spear.

Luffy says that when he breaks the spear, the power of the weapon is split in half (Stephen's translation), Chapter 65.

The weapons aren't inside one another, they're beside each other, yet when they attack a foe and explode their force is combined, proven from when 1 is broken, the power is halved.

So Krieg is one piece of proof that 2 united weapons = 2x 1 weapon power wise.

Example 3​

Roronoa Zoro, who uses 3 swords, has an attack called 108 Pound Phoenix/Cannon.
When he uses 2 swords, its called 72 Pound Phoenix/Cannon.
When he uses 1 sword, its called 36 Pound Phoenix/Cannon.

People could easily say "it's dependent on the amount of swords", which is a valid argument, but it isn't true.

When he is alongside Luffy, who has no swords at all, he initially dubs his attack 216 pound siege cannon. They only call it 300 because saying 216 is too long.
Luffy is stated by the databooks (Databook Yellow to be exact) to be his equal in power. The only thing that makes Luffy and Zoro have comparable that would make him double his attack name is their attack power.

So this proves that the naming of Zoro's pound cannons are from the force of the attacks being added up. Luffy, Zoro's equal, thinks of doubling the number behind Zoro's attack, and the only thing that'd make him do that is power.

Additional Proof​

Zoro, Luffy, and Sanji use a combined attack called the 600 pound cannon. Used in Sabaody, after Thriller Bark.
Thriller Bark, Zoro got Shusui, which was stated to be several times stronger than his previous sword's strength. On a lowball 3x, making it 3x36 + 36 + 36, or 180.
The other MTrio members are portrayed to be comparable to Zoro in that instance, making them both additional 180s, or at least around that level. That'd make the attack 540 in total (which is a long name, which could be the reason why they rounded the name to 600).

Another showing of combined attacks = combined power.

Conclusion​

Combined attacks in One Piece should have added Potency, so attacks like the 600 Pound Cannon, Heavy Gong, Super Frapper Gong, and more, should be equal to the combined force of the users.
Woah, this looks really good, agred for sure!
 
Ok, for starters i completely agree with the op

homever this CRT has a major implication that i don't know if everyone realized:

In the case of zoro, after the timeskip he performs an attack called 1080 pound phoenix cannon, that would mean post time skip zoro is only roughly 10 times over his skipeia self, if that is the case it would pretty much mean that we have a canonical power difference betwenn post-timeskip and pre-timeskip which would result in massive upgrades for most pre-timeskip characters via downscaling

Like this needs to be adressed now, because it could change a massive number of profiles drastically, much more than a regular increase or multiplier would
 
36 pound to 360 pound
72 pound to 720 pound
108 pound to 1080 pound
Looks like 10 times stronger than before?
Wouldn't work for strength measurement compared to different versions of the character, which is why Zoro hasn't gotten an increase in his number since BOS up to thriller bark
 
Ok, for starters i completely agree with the op

homever this CRT has a major implication that i don't know if everyone realized:

In the case of zoro, after the timeskip he performs an attack called 1080 pound phoenix cannon, that would mean post time skip zoro is only roughly 10 times over his skipeia self, if that is the case it would pretty much mean that we have a canonical power difference betwenn post-timeskip and pre-timeskip which would result in massive upgrades for most pre-timeskip characters via downscaling

Like this needs to be adressed now, because it could change a massive number of profiles drastically, much more than a regular increase or multiplier would
Why Skypea?
 
Well, there are 5 styles (Mutoryu should be = Nitoryu tho) so it's a bit too much info for his Tier section, but it needs to be somewhere (or maybe as a note at the end, idk).
 
Zoro’s profile could be rated as...

“Tier to Tier”

With the first tier being his weaker sword styles and the higher tier being his stronger sword styles
 
Hmm, would this apply to characters that we don't see attacking with two limbs often?

And the limbs still need to be "attacking together" for this to apply, right? So Gomu Gomu no Bazooka would get a multiplier while Gatling wouldn't
 
Hmm, would this apply to characters that we don't see attacking with two limbs often?
We wouldn’t note it on the pages except for the ones who significantly use this, like Zoro.

But in general, yes this applies
And the limbs still need to be "attacking together" for this to apply, right? So Gomu Gomu no Bazooka would get a multiplier while Gatling wouldn't
Yeah this. Back to back attacks wouldn’t count unless they have a statement of being superior to the double limbed one
 
Honestly, while the first 2 examples and the additional proof(they all called the name of their attacks in their instance, whether Zoro was adding everything together is not really known iirc, it may just be the name of his own PL iirc) also doesn't really work but I can't explain why since I agree with the 3rd example and by extension the OP proposal but to not mess up the scalings so much this should probably be strict as multiplier like this can be easily abused
 
Honestly, while the first 2 examples and the additional proof(they all called the name of their attacks in their instance, whether Zoro was adding everything together is not really known iirc, it may just be the name of his own PL iirc) also doesn't really work but I can't explain why since I agree with the 3rd example and by extension the OP proposal but to not mess up the scalings so much this should probably be strict as multiplier like this can be easily abused
I think that the OP looks good as well but I too am wary about this being abused for scaling and potential circular scaling.

If Oars damages Zoro with one limb, then uses two limbs to attack Sanji who deflects the attack, are we saying that Sanji is twice as durable as Zoro? Just a hypothetical thought.


Also, while I think the OP looks fine, I do think example 2 is a bit iffy. The only thing that happened to the spear was that the blade-tip was broken off of it. By itself that doesn't really make logical sense to lower the attack potency by half if the other half is supposed to be only the power of the explosive. There'd still be the force of Don Krieg actually swinging the spear around that would have some power to it, even if it didn't stab someone or explode.
 
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OP looks great to me as well, so I agree. But I share the previous two comments' concerns about potential scaling inconsistencies, so I guess we'll have to wait and see the scaling chains this results in to truly judge its validity.
 
Btw, wouldn't we need another CRT to revise where exactly each character would scale and see if this is actually consistent? I am not saying there will be inconsistencies but the manga is big.
 
Btw, wouldn't we need another CRT to revise where exactly each character would scale and see if this is actually consistent?
giphy.webp
 
Btw, wouldn't we need another CRT to revise where exactly each character would scale and see if this is actually consistent? I am not saying there will be inconsistencies but the manga is big.
I'll handle that in the future
 
I think that the OP looks good as well but I too am wary about this being abused for scaling and potential circular scaling.
but to not mess up the scalings so much this should probably be strict as multiplier like this can be easily abused
Yeah I can see the issues, it just needs to be taken into consideration and we can monitor the events of when it happens, look at consistent/inconsistent moments, etc.
If Oars damages Zoro with one limb, then uses two limbs to attack Sanji who deflects the attack, are we saying that Sanji is twice as durable as Zoro? Just a hypothetical thought.
In that case, Sanji used several attacks to match Oars' single attack (like a minor gatling attack from Luffy), so instances like that need to be looked upon deeply before we just give an unwise (not directing that unwise statement to anybody) analysis on the portrayal of an attack.
Also, while I think the OP looks fine, I do think example 2 is a bit iffy. The only thing that happened to the spear was that the blade-tip was broken off of it. By itself that doesn't really make logical sense to lower the attack potency by half if the other half is supposed to be only the power of the explosive. There'd still be the force of Don Krieg actually swinging the spear around that would have some power to it, even if it didn't stab someone or explode.
The explosive gets stronger the harder Krieg swings it, so the force of Krieg swinging the spear is directly tied into the explosive. No force, no explosive. Force, explosive. So I wouldn't say this is a bad argument per-se, I'd just say that the force and the explosion+spear go hand in hand
 
Regarding Combined Attacks: In the case of unified attacks, it has been decided in this thread that combined attacks done at the same time, whether with several limbs or with several relative characters, would be equal to the sum of their attack potency. An attack done by 1 person using several limbs at the same time would be equal to the sum of their attack potency. This will be taken on a case by case basis, and we should look closely to each instance of events like this to see if they truly qualify.

How's this?
 
3 staff (Elizhaa, Mitch, and Damage), knowledgeable members, and others have accepted the thread. Pretty much unanimus except we need to look at it on a case by case basis. So I'll add this to the verse page and this thread can be closed. Thanks for the constructive criticism, support, and evaluations.
 
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