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One Piece character speeds, and Gear 4th Luffy

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CinCameron20

CinCameron20

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Okay, so:

Doflamingo has a Mach 942 feat that we currently scale the high and top tiers to. Speaking of which, I need to apply the link to Doflamingo's page.

Gear 4th Luffy speed-blitzed Doflamingo from a distance more than once. Since MHS+ starts at Mach 1000, and Doflamingo is easily Mach 940+, would it be acceptable to start scaling characters such as Gear 4th Luffy and the top tiers to being "At least Massively Hypersonic, likely Massively Hypersonic+"? (High tiers stay the same except for certain characters like Marco)

If they stay as they are now, cool.

Also, this small piece has been concerning me a bit since it has been brought up to me for a while: is Doflamingo saying that Luffy is 3x stronger? I am uncertain if this translation is accurate or not. If so, it might lead to an upgrade of a small number of high tiers.
 
This seems fine. Luffy blitzing Doffy should be at the very least mach 1000. Also a little off topic, but i came across this calc ( The same you did that gave Doffy the mach 940+ rating.) Expect the end results yielded a much higher result. Mind taking a look at it?
 
@Knight - I don't know if the calc you are speaking of uses the accepted size of the OP planet, and thus the accepted speed of the meteorite, but okay.
 
@Knight - No. That calc uses a speed from when we used the planet at the size of 2x our Sun's diameter. It's not accepted. I made my last edit way after that calc was made.
 
If this kind of things is allowed for speed than i agree, but i don't remember any other cases where we did this.

Usually it's just left on MHS for those characters who have the MHS feat and added "At least MHS, likely higher" for those that blitz said characters.
 
For the 3x stronger well on a different site the text is different like mentioning his haki and not elasticity
 
@Blanked - He mentions Tensile strength, which is pretty much identical to Elasticity (Not by definition, but in this sense, yes). Either way, he talks about how Luffy's strength/power has "increased many times over"
 
@Blanked - Luffy in base (this includes his 2nd/3rd gears btw) is powerscaled from being capable of breaking Doflamingo's threads, and being capable of hurting Doflamingo.
 
I see if we accept the 3 times thing and we scale them from bird cage they should have very baseline small country lvl ratings right? Doffy awakening, Luffy gear 4 and who else?
 
@Blanked - Cracker, but not his soldiers, cus Gear 4th stomped them. Katakuri, Smoothie via powerscaling to Cracker. Pretty much every Yonko Commander would be "At least High 6-C, Likely Low 6-B"

Doflamingo's awakening doesn't scale. They were only capable of fending Luffy off for so long because Doffy hid behind massive waves of them, and later used haki, which was still one-shot by KKG.

I doubt any of this would be accepted, but Idk.
 
Yeah, seems fine.

Since doflamingo couldnt react to Luffy that well at all, and the human eye cant process things 25 percent faster then normal, this would come out to massively hypersonic+
 
Allright, I cant write it in office documents like I do most revisions so lets get started.

But generally speaking, Luffy's gears tend to make up for immense powergaps with ease.

Lets take Luffy vs Blueno in Water 7. Blueno had a power level 820 and he can keep up with him reasonably well in base, even keeping track of his soru in the anime (not sure about the manga)\

But then Luffy went gear second and blitzed him, even overtaxing his tekkei.

Luffy in base vs Lucci was the reverse, making him unable to keep up with him in power, having to resort to gear second and third to damage him (although he could keep up with him speed wise somewhat)

Lucci in base had a power level of 4000, which is around 4.8 times Blueno and luffy made up the power deficit to overpower him with both gears. This indicated to me his gears do not go up as simple as factors of 2x, 4x etc.

Same argument can be applied to gear fourth.

Also, one thing.

It is clear to many that awakenings tend to somewhat be more powerful then the users base abilities, although the factor is unknown.

Back to Doflamingo vs Luffy. Luffy in gear fourth was unable to be damaged by anything in doflamingo did, which I remind everyone that this is before he used his awakening and where we currently scale High 6-C from.

Doflamingo's awakening actually made the fight somewhat more even, although doffy still had the disadvantage, where as before he could not keep up with luffy in power.


The most rational conclusion we can assume that Awakenings and certain devil fruit techniques. allow you to also make up gaps in power via an unknown multiplier.

Zoans exploit this idea entirely as they get faster, stronger and generally more dangerous in any form they take (Especially Lucci who would maul luffy in his leopord form)

Now we can chalk this up to PIS, i respect that.

But Luffy at the very least has the pattern that his gears allow him to buff his power.

If we accept this factor 667 gigatons for luffy in base gears 2/3, then using a modest multiplication of 2x would be baseline small country level.

In short, both the speed upgrades and the ap upgrades seem fine to me.

We already did something similar with Sora and most of the KH characters. Their power is large star level via feats from fodder, but the feat was done casually and we bumped them up to baseline solar system level.

It is not too radical to propose the same idea for one piece, especially since imo we have more evidence for this scaling then we do against.

Edit: Btw if we accepted gears second and third have a multiplier of 4.8, then we get 3.2 teratons for luffy, or mid end small country level.

By a factor of three like Cin suggested 2.01 teratons.
 
Seems ok... If Doffy is 940 and Massively Hypersonic+ starts at 1000 it's a possibility, especially if he gets blitz.
 
I dont see a problem with this.

"At least MHS, likely MHS+" seems solid for people on Gear fourth league

This would include... Jack, Cracker, Katakuri, etc.

If you want, for doffy, instead of "likely", "possibly" could be an option, he could keep up with G4 luffy to an extent.
 
@PaChi - what about regarding tier? Does Doflamingo's statement of Luffy being 3x stronger (Base Luffy could break Doflamingo's threads) support Luffy being "Likely Low 6-B via Gear 4th and Tank Man?

^The tier would only scale to the strongest characters + Katakuri/Cracker and Marco. Doflamingo, Jozu, etc would NOT scale.

Doflamingo wouldn't scale in speed either due to him having the Mach 940 feat, and that scaling him to Luffy would be circle scaling. He was blitzed by Luffy like 4 times, most of which were from dozens to hundreds of meters away.
 
I mean, G4 Luffy did have a fist collision with Big Mom, didnt he? And I dont think BM was "casual" in any way. So that's something to take into account.

I dont know about Dressrosa G4, but Cake Island G4 is likely around Low 6-B.
 
Fist collision really means nothing honestly.

Thou I am personally fine working with the 3 times upgrade thing.
 
@PaChi - Dressrosa would have to be Low 6-B since that's when Doflamingo made the statement of Luffy being 3x stronger, and even w/ haki, he was getting completely destroyed by Luffy's attacks.
 
Blanked said:
Fist collision really means nothing honestly.

Thou I am personally fine working with the 3 times upgrade thing.
Click to expand...
big mom is 6-B, not getting literally oneshoted means something.

@Cin Can we take Doffy's statement literally, tho? The best we can work with is that G4 gave luffy a tremendous boost that allowed luffy to dominate Doffy. And I dont think Doffy wouldnt scale if Dressrosa Luffy was Low 6-B, he took a total beating from Luffy and still could outlast him for the first time.
 
@PaChi - i'm sorry if i keep breaking/editing my responses, but the way it would look is:

Doflamingo (via scaling to his 640 GT feat from threads): At least Large Island+ Durability for taking strikes from opponents who can break his threads.

IDK if we should add an additional thing for his awakened mode, since someone could argue that his awakening could fend off Luffy in G4, even though I disagree with this.

Luffy: Large Island+ AP in base, gear 2nd, and 3rd via destroying Doflamingo's threads. Likely Small Country level in Gear 4th (Considered to be 3 times stronger than before)
 
Considering that the difference between Mach 942 and Mach 1000 is only 1.06x, I think that the speed upgrade is fine.
 
CinCameron20 said:
@PaChi - i'm sorry if i keep breaking/editing my responses, but the way it would look is:

Doflamingo (via scaling to his 640 GT feat from threads): At least Large Island+ Durability for taking strikes from opponents who can break his threads.

IDK if we should add an additional thing for his awakened mode, since someone could argue that his awakening could fend off Luffy in G4, even though I disagree with this.

Luffy: Large Island+ AP via destroying Doflamingo's threads. Likely Small Country level (Considered to be 3 times stronger than before)
Click to expand...
Honestly you can just remove the large island thing at least for me.
 
@Blanked - i just edited it (yeah... i have a problem) to state that the Large Island stat for Luffy is in his base and 2nd/3rd gears.
 
Now it depend if such reasoning is accepted. I don't see a problem cause you know Kaioken was always taken in consideration for Goku i think.
 
You mean she held back after the ruckus the strawhats created in her most awaited party?
 
Why not? If she thinks they are weaklings simple making her mad doesn't mean she is going full power. Also, if she is country lvl that would of been a one shot right there. Though her physical strength was never specified as her true strength so I don't know.
 
@PaChi2 - I'm pretty certain Big Mom just blocked the strike, and Luffy didn't do anything to her. Sure, she was about to get serious and attack, but that's the only time Luffy and Big Mom actually touched in the entire arc, and it was her merely blocking the Kong Gun.

Being able to injure Katakuri and send him hurtling through the air, who very casually stomped Gear 3rd, is a better example of power-scaling, in my opinion.
 
Luffy doesn't scale from that scan anyway. He literally passed out right after that snall clash with Big Mom. I agree with the upgrades.
 
Katakuri also explained that precognition works only if you are calm and collected so guess things like bloodlust are better not to be used for OP characters.
 
I will keep this simple.

I propose

Luffy G4 Dressrosa: At Least High 6-C, Possibly Low 6-B (Stomped doflamingo, which he stated his power grew three times his, who is already high end Large Island Level)

Luffy G4 Wholecake: At Least High 6-C, Likely Low 6-B (Fought Cracker and Katakuri, the former of which Luffy stated had the hardest Armanant Haki he ever seen, despite having also fought Doflaming)

Cracker, Katakuri, Smoothie: At Least High 6-C, Likely Low 6-B (Superior to Base Luffy and required luffy to go gear fourth to damage them conclusively). Smoothie scales straight up to Cracker and Katakuri.

Basically any yonkou commander should get: At Least High 6-C, Likely Low 6-B.

The gap is only 1.5 or so, and I personally think it is not unreasonable to think even Cracker, Katakuri etc etc are at least this much stronger then Doflamingo.
 
I am fine with CinCameron20's suggested gear 4th upgrade. Given the very small difference to Massively Hypersonic+, I suppose that should be fine as well.
 
I'll make a few examples for Tier and Attack Potency for specific characters. If there's any problems, let me know, if not, then it should be safe to apply them.

Doflamingo: At least High 6-C (the same)

Attack potency: At least Large Island level+ (Can harm characters who are strong enough to break his threads. His threads were strong enough to withstand hits from Fujitora's Meteorites. His threads can stop characters as powerful as Jozu)

Speed: At least Massively Hypersonic ([Mach 942])

Luffy (Dressrosa Example -- Wholecake will be very similar): At least High 6-C in Base, 2nd, and 3rd Gears, likely Low 6-B with Gear 4th

Attack Potency: Large Island level+ in Base, 2nd, and 3rd Gear (Destroyed Doflamingo's threads, and ripped apart Doflamingo's Black Knight without the use of haki. Could trade blows with Fujitora while in Gear 3rd), Likely Small Country level in Gear 4th (Noted as being 3 times stronger than before, and could very easily destroy waves of Doflamingo's haki-infused awakening threads with singular punches, head-butts, and flexes. With King-Kong Gun, he one-shot Doflamingo along with his ultimate attack and defense, both infused with haki.)

Speed: At least Massively Hypersonic in Base, 2nd, and 3rd Gears (Can keep up with Doflamingo), Likely Massively Hypersonic+ in Gear 4th (Vanished from Doflamingo's sight and speed blitzed him from hundreds of meters away).

This will be a solid example of a character who scales from Gear 4th Luffy.

Charlotte Katakuri: Likely Low 6-B

Attack Potency: Likely Small Country level (Stronger than Cracker, who could harm Gear 4th Luffy. Very casually stomped Gear 3rd Luffy in a contest of pure strength)

Durability: Likely Small Country level (Tanked several blows from Gear 4th Luffy and has only shown mild signs of injury)

Speed: At least Massively Hypersonic, Likely Massively Hypersonic+ (Can outspeed Gear 2nd Luffy with casual ease)

Note that Katakuri hasn't really shown signs of keeping pace with Gear 4th Luffy without his use of Kenbunshoku Haki just yet.

So, suggesting this is perfectly fine, I will apply this to the characters listed, and will scale to this.
 
I think that this seems fine, with the exception of a few text bolding errors.
 
Okay.

Anyway, it should probably be fine if you perform the edits.
 
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