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One Piece Chapter 1028: Brachiosnakeus (Official Release)

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I think that the One Piece world is a too crapsack place for the Strawhat crew to be able to afford to keep sparing the lives of extremely dangerous and malevolent opponents that will just keep coming back to threaten them and lots of innocent people in the future. Lucci is a perfect example of that.
 
This is perfect, though. Lucci could mention the SABO incident infront of Luffy, and instead of it being another Robin rescue it leads directly to the Sabo rescue instead. Assuming he needs it and was actually captured instead of just framed for something.
 
LordGinSama said:
Lucci including non canon definitely mops Who's Who. One single statement from Who's Who about him being as skilled as a non specified version of Lucci doesn't make much sense to me.
Click to expand...
Lucci's best non-canon feat is going even with Sabo, who isn't particularly notable since his best feats involve getting the better of Diamante and Burgess. Fujitora toyed with him and straight-up informed Sabo on how he needed to fight him in order to give himself an alibi--fighting the Revolutionary's No. 2, which would make it impossible for him to chase Luffy. You could include the non-canon Stampede feat of stopping Kizaru's beams, but eh... all these non-canon feats seem quite ridiculous (Film Z having Luffy with Gear 2nd + Haki capable of defeating a character who could match Kizaru for some time... yikes).
  • Not saying Lucci is gonna be weak, just that his feats don't prove that he is massively > Tobi Roppo. Gotta remember his only canon feat involves beating up Leo and Sai (who were off-guard anyways).

Even if he could trash WW, he still has to deal with people like the top 4 Strawhats, Law, Kid, Killer, and the remaining Scabbards/Izo. All of these people might as well be above the Tobi Roppo quite comfortably.

At least CP0 has a decent number of fighters present now, so they could team up if necessary. They are a genuine threat.
 
Even though everything about Queen is weird and nasty, I still think he's kind of sick in his own weird way.
 
Jieldre said:
These "levels" you speak of are nonexistent.
Click to expand...
Saying there's no established levels is the same as saying it would make sense if Gol D. Roger lost to a random marine with no experience whatsoever, in a fight.

Powerscaling is an actual narrative tool used in shounen, so yeah, there's "Yonkou Level" or "Yonkou Tier/God Tier", otherwise, any match up would be meaningless.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Saying there's no established levels is the same as saying it would make sense if Gol D. Roger lost to a random marine with no experience whatsoever, in a fight.

Powerscaling is an actual narrative tool used in shounen, so yeah, there's "Yonkou Level" or "Yonkou Tier/God Tier", otherwise, any match up would be meaningless.
Click to expand...
To be fair, back in Roger's time, the only notable Marines (Combatively) were Sengoku and Garp. We don't know about any other Admirals at the time, and the only other note-worthy individual would be Tsuru--who we know very little about outside of the fact she was the primary threat to Doflamingo during his time as a pirate.

Obviously, people like Kuro or Arlong wouldn't be able to touch Roger because of a massive disparity in skill and power, but Arlong himself was easily trashed by Jinbe. They are notable among "fodder", but nothing extraordinary.
Jieldre said:
These "levels" you speak of are nonexistent.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

People think there is a massive gap between each "tier", which isn't ever stated. All that's set in stone is the Yonko > The Commanders, but the gap is hardly ever explored. Marco and Jozu each were capable of fighting against Admirals who were genuine threats to the wounded Whitebeard (Though Kizaru only ever caught WB off-guard. Anime completely contradicts this).

Personally, I think the fanbase views it as "an entire floor difference in a gap" where it might only be one, two, maybe three steps.

Marco was primarily drained in his fight with King (Queen participated on occasion, but we see him frequently taking part in other battles while King was almost exclusively fighting Marco) while Big Mom considered a full out fight against Marco to be "draining", thus opt'd to go straight to Kaido.

Doflamingo has blatantly put Fujitora's feats to shame (Sorry, it's true Fuji fans), and we know based on comparison, someone like Katakuri may hold more destructive power than Doffy somewhat (Hard to tell when Doffy spent most his fight in a seriously wounded condition). It may even be logical to suggest all the Commanders we've seen fight (minus Jack, RIP) are above Fujitora in power since Luffy in Gear 4th wasn't reliable in defeating them (Meanwhile, he was comfortable with using Gear 2nd and 3rd against Fuji).

Jack is arguably superior to Base Inuarashi and Nekomamushi considering he fought 5 days straight while each of them took turns, and he was about to defeat Inuarashi before the latter resorted to Sulong (Jack confirming that he managed to take hits before Inu lost his form)--not to mention he held his own against both Sulong Inu and Neko whilst already wounded from defeating the army of Sulong Minks and wasn't instantly defeated.
  • Inu and Neko each in their Sulong form were capable of taking hits from Kaido and caused him to bleed. It's implied in one of the panels they were losing stamina rapidly via Sulong form, and likely lost soon after Kaido started using Haoshoku cuz of that.
  • OH yeah, Kaido used Haoshoku to defeat the Scabbards. Let that sink in. They are all quite powerful.
  • While I'm sure Kin'emon got stronger towards the Onigashima raid, someone like Doflamingo managed to injure him with a regular kick to the face.
There's far more examples for sure, but the point is the Commanders are treated as a full tier under the Admirals when this is unsupported. At worst, they are just a little bit weaker than them, but I would also like to point out that it's frequently stated how Logia DFs are considered the most busted in-verse. Of course the OG Admirals are going to hold an advantage over some Paramecia and Zoan users (Ace is an exception, though he DID clash evenly with Aokiji, and it was noted by Akainu himself that Ace got overconfident and believed he could clash against Magma without suffering burns--thus he probably didn't even use Haki seriously).

Commanders are depicted comparable to the Admirals. Only difference between them are mechanical (hax and such).
 
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GodlyCharmander said:
Saying there's no established levels is the same as saying it would make sense if Gol D. Roger lost to a random marine with no experience whatsoever, in a fight.

Powerscaling is an actual narrative tool used in shounen, so yeah, there's "Yonkou Level" or "Yonkou Tier/God Tier", otherwise, any match up would be meaningless.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry but this literally makes no sense.........
Why would we disregard in story portrayal,feats and statements??

Lumping people into a "level" is lazy.
 
CinCameron20 said:
People think there is a massive gap between each "tier", which isn't ever stated. All that's set in stone is the Yonko > The Commanders, but the gap is hardly ever explored. Marco and Jozu each were capable of fighting against Admirals who were genuine threats to the wounded Whitebeard (Though Kizaru only ever caught WB off-guard. Anime completely contradicts this).
Click to expand...
See. the good thing about a story is how you don't need things fed to your mouth, you can just interpret how they are portrayed on screen.
First, Jozu lost to Aokiji after just one chapter, saying he can "fight" against Admirals is very dishonest.

CinCameron20 said:
Marco was primarily drained in his fight with King (Queen participated on occasion, but we see him frequently taking part in other battles while King was almost exclusively fighting Marco) while Big Mom considered a full out fight against Marco to be "draining", thus opt'd to go straight to Kaido.
Click to expand...
That's not true at all. She did fight him and completely overwhelmed him, Marco couldn't do anything whatsoever.
She did say she didn't have the soul weapons to spare on him, which doesn't mean much for either side of the argument.
CinCameron20 said:
Doflamingo has blatantly put Fujitora's feats to shame (Sorry, it's true Fuji fans), and we know based on comparison, someone like Katakuri may hold more destructive power than Doffy somewhat (Hard to tell when Doffy spent most his fight in a seriously wounded condition). It may even be logical to suggest all the Commanders we've seen fight (minus Jack, RIP) are above Fujitora in power since Luffy in Gear 4th wasn't reliable in defeating them (Meanwhile, he was comfortable with using Gear 2nd and 3rd against Fuji)
Click to expand...
Cracker's Haki was stronger than Doflamingo's, and G4 Luffy was injured too.
CinCameron20 said:
Jack is arguably superior to Base Inuarashi and Nekomamushi considering he fought 5 days straight while each of them took turns, and he was about to defeat Inuarashi before the latter resorted to Sulong (Jack confirming that he managed to take hits before Inu lost his form)--not to mention he held his own against both Sulong Inu and Neko whilst already wounded from defeating the army of Sulong Minks and wasn't instantly defeated.
  • Inu and Neko each in their Sulong form were capable of taking hits from Kaido and caused him to bleed. It's implied in one of the panels they were losing stamina rapidly via Sulong form, and likely lost soon after Kaido started using Haoshoku cuz of that.
  • OH yeah, Kaido used Haoshoku to defeat the Scabbards. Let that sink in. They are all quite powerful.
  • While I'm sure Kin'emon got stronger towards the Onigashima raid, someone like Doflamingo managed to injure him with a regular kick to the face.
Click to expand...
That's a lot of reaching, as you said yourself, you can't scale a character to another whose power was portrayed far later in the story. Oh yeah, Kaido using Haoshoku to defeat someone doesn't mean much, Luffy G4 was completely meaningless to a drunk hakiless kaido in terms of physical power, yet he used haoshoku anyway.
CinCameron20 said:
There's far more examples for sure, but the point is the Commanders are treated as a full tier under the Admirals when this is unsupported. At worst, they are just a little bit weaker than them.
Click to expand...
No, they have only been portrayed as significantly weaker than them.
CinCameron20 said:
Ace is an exception, though he DID clash evenly with Aokiji, and it was noted by Akainu himself that Ace got overconfident and believed he could clash against Magma without suffering burns--thus he probably didn't even use Haki seriously
Click to expand...
Clashes are not as meaniful as you think, Crocodile clashed "evenly" with Doflamingo, and Mihawk, despise being far below both characters.
CinCameron20 said:
Commanders are depicted comparable to the Admirals.
Click to expand...
That is not true whatsoever. You're ignoring my previous point, which you didn't respond whatsoever.

Ahem, again:

Akainu faced off 10 commanders+crocodile on his own.
And defeated at least some of them while not even trying to fight, but to get to luffy
Marco couldn't even overpower Kizaru.
Had to fight Akainu with Vista, and still couldn't do much

They have never once being portrayed as capable of fighting admirals on their own, that's a lie.
 
CinCameron20 said:
To be fair, back in Roger's time, the only notable Marines (Combatively) were Sengoku and Garp. We don't know about any other Admirals at the time, and the only other note-worthy individual would be Tsuru--who we know very little about outside of the fact she was the primary threat to Doflamingo during his time as a pirate.

Obviously, people like Kuro or Arlong wouldn't be able to touch Roger because of a massive disparity in skill and power, but Arlong himself was easily trashed by Jinbe. They are notable among "fodder", but nothing extraordinary.

Agreed.

People think there is a massive gap between each "tier", which isn't ever stated. All that's set in stone is the Yonko > The Commanders, but the gap is hardly ever explored. Marco and Jozu each were capable of fighting against Admirals who were genuine threats to the wounded Whitebeard (Though Kizaru only ever caught WB off-guard. Anime completely contradicts this).

Personally, I think the fanbase views it as "an entire floor difference in a gap" where it might only be one, two, maybe three steps.

Marco was primarily drained in his fight with King (Queen participated on occasion, but we see him frequently taking part in other battles while King was almost exclusively fighting Marco) while Big Mom considered a full out fight against Marco to be "draining", thus opt'd to go straight to Kaido.

Doflamingo has blatantly put Fujitora's feats to shame (Sorry, it's true Fuji fans), and we know based on comparison, someone like Katakuri may hold more destructive power than Doffy somewhat (Hard to tell when Doffy spent most his fight in a seriously wounded condition). It may even be logical to suggest all the Commanders we've seen fight (minus Jack, RIP) are above Fujitora in power since Luffy in Gear 4th wasn't reliable in defeating them (Meanwhile, he was comfortable with using Gear 2nd and 3rd against Fuji).

Jack is arguably superior to Base Inuarashi and Nekomamushi considering he fought 5 days straight while each of them took turns, and he was about to defeat Inuarashi before the latter resorted to Sulong (Jack confirming that he managed to take hits before Inu lost his form)--not to mention he held his own against both Sulong Inu and Neko whilst already wounded from defeating the army of Sulong Minks and wasn't instantly defeated.
  • Inu and Neko each in their Sulong form were capable of taking hits from Kaido and caused him to bleed. It's implied in one of the panels they were losing stamina rapidly via Sulong form, and likely lost soon after Kaido started using Haoshoku cuz of that.
  • OH yeah, Kaido used Haoshoku to defeat the Scabbards. Let that sink in. They are all quite powerful.
  • While I'm sure Kin'emon got stronger towards the Onigashima raid, someone like Doflamingo managed to injure him with a regular kick to the face.
There's far more examples for sure, but the point is the Commanders are treated as a full tier under the Admirals when this is unsupported. At worst, they are just a little bit weaker than them, but I would also like to point out that it's frequently stated how Logia DFs are considered the most busted in-verse. Of course the OG Admirals are going to hold an advantage over some Paramecia and Zoan users (Ace is an exception, though he DID clash evenly with Aokiji, and it was noted by Akainu himself that Ace got overconfident and believed he could clash against Magma without suffering burns--thus he probably didn't even use Haki seriously).

Commanders are depicted comparable to the Admirals. Only difference between them are mechanical (hax and such).
Click to expand...
I have to disagree with the Commanders = Admirals


Sorry but i dont see Queen King Marco and other commanders being able to fight for 10 days their stamina and their AP ain't in the Admirals Level of AP

I have Kizaru, Kuzan, Sakazuki ~ To The Emperors. Hence why the balance exists its even stated from Doberman iirc that only an Admiral or Warlords could be able to stop a Yonko they are the 3 greatest powers in the world for a reason. I dont believe in the Yonkos > Admiral bs that fans says i watch their portrayal, statements and feats to rank them there. I think its disrespectful to rank Admirals = Yonko Commanders but lets wait until the FINAL WAR HAPPENS🔥
 
GodlyCharmander said:
See. the good thing about a story is how you don't need things fed to your mouth, you can just interpret how they are portrayed on screen.
First, Jozu lost to Aokiji after just one chapter, saying he can "fight" against Admirals is very dishonest.


That's not true at all. She did fight him and completely overwhelmed him, Marco couldn't do anything whatsoever.
She did say she didn't have the soul weapons to spare on him, which doesn't mean much for either side of the argument.

Cracker's Haki was stronger than Doflamingo's, and G4 Luffy was injured too.

That's a lot of reaching, as you said yourself, you can't scale a character to another whose power was portrayed far later in the story. Oh yeah, Kaido using Haoshoku to defeat someone doesn't mean much, Luffy G4 was completely meaningless to a drunk hakiless kaido in terms of physical power, yet he used haoshoku anyway.

No, they have only been portrayed as significantly weaker than them.

Clashes are not as meaniful as you think, Crocodile clashed "evenly" with Doflamingo, and Mihawk, despise being far below both characters.

That is not true whatsoever. You're ignoring my previous point, which you didn't respond whatsoever.

Ahem, again:

Akainu faced off 10 commanders+crocodile on his own.
And defeated at least some of them while not even trying to fight, but to get to luffy
Marco couldn't even overpower Kizaru.
Had to fight Akainu with Vista, and still couldn't do much

They have never once being portrayed as capable of fighting admirals on their own, that's a lie.
Click to expand...
I agree with chalamander completely. Well said💯
 
GodlyCharmander said:
"Yonkou Level" is just having the same power portrayed just like a Yonkou, or feats on that level. Level is a thing, you disliking it makes little difference to that fact.
Click to expand...
Yonko level is a thing, sure, it's interchangeably with God tier or top tiers or any other way, but we have 2 admirals with no feats close to the pre ts admirals and things like Jack, Marco and Cracker being in the same level (YC level) when that's really not the case, even Jack = Cracker doesn't make that much sense even tho both are "YC3 level".
 
GodlyCharmander said:
This is what makes a "level" narratively. How powerful they are shown, portrayed or stated to be.

"Yonkou Level" is just having the same power portrayed just like a Yonkou, or feats on that level. Level is a thing, you disliking it makes little difference to that fact.
Click to expand...
Ehhh.......
Agree to disagree
 
CinCameron20 said:
I wonder how much of a boost this will be for Sanji. Like I predicted, his "current" level of power wouldn't be nearly enough to defeat someone above Jack. The fact he instantly gained High-Low regeneration out of nowhere and durability strong enough to break Queen's blade is kind of BS since just moments prior, he was being manhandled. But okay, I guess.
Click to expand...
I think Queen just isn't good enough with a sword, and his sword isn't a meito so it's durability was pretty low for this level of fight anyway.

Germa's protection against blades also seems less "i am too durable" and looks more "these don't work", kinda like Daz Bones.
 
No, he did say "Ouch", so he felt the impact- but he just kinda too built different now.
So, Sanji's healing extends beyond just broken bones, it seems? Queen mentioned destroying internal organs with his coil (which Sanji coughed up blood right after, so he might've done just that).
Also some form of pain tolerance? His body got mangled and all he said was "it kind of stings". Cook's getting mad buffs this fight.

Also Queen's body is tough enough to block out DJ's durability negating properties? That or his snake body just didn't get touched by the fire when getting kicked-
 
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