OMORI VS Chara: ERASING Determination

[Bruhtelho]

Both at 8-B, Late Game OMORI and Post-Death Chara controlling Frisk are used

Fight takes place within RED SPACE

Fight ends in Death, K.O, or Incap

Both start 10 meters apart and have access to their full arsenal

Speed is equalized

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"OMORI will not succumb":3 (StrymULTRA, McFriesGuy075, Axorandom0)	"That was fun. Let's finish the job.":0

 

[Bruhtelho]

AP for both:

Omori is 78.62 Tons of TNT

Chara is 17.78 Tons of TNT

Omori has a 4.4x AP/Dura advantage (if i'm correct)

 

[StrymULTRA]

How does OMORI's EE work here? Because if I recall correctly, it kinda of erase Sunny and took over his body (and both at the time were kinda split personalities here).

 

[McFriesGuy075]

How does OMORI's EE work here? Because if I recall correctly, it kinda of erase Sunny and took over his body (and both at the time were kinda split personalities here).

Sunny does resist existence erasure in that fight, until it gets way too strong to ignore (?). If Chara does resist EE then they'll have to deal with layered fear manipulation

 

[McFriesGuy075]

The visuals of the EE vary in the fight though so i don't really know what that would be here

 

[McFriesGuy075]

Hasn't this match been done before and ended in an inconclusive?

Anyway, there's other stuff he could do here, BFRing Chara, summoning red hands to pin down Chara, cause Chara to eventually forget they're fighting, stat reduce Chara or amping himself with way too many stuff to count, attacking Chara's pressure points (and make himself luckier to hit them by making himself happier or having supernatural luck items), as well as duranegging Chara with stab or suffocate

 

[StrymULTRA]

Sunny does resist existence erasure in that fight

This is 8-B Chara, not the 2-B Chara (that would have genuinely have stomped, AE 1 + 2-B ranged Type 8 Immortality + Info 2 EE by their own are a GG against him).

Assuming this happens in HEADSPACE, then we have this:

• OMORI's immortality can be tricky, as it work like Chara's but in reverse. Unlike Chara who just respawns through going back in time, OMORI instead comes back as long as Sunny feels guilt. I remember that OMORI just respawns when SUNNY kills him, so if he has this same resolve against Chara, then this can be trouble.
• If Sunny's EE can erase minds. This can be a problem given that DETERMINATION in itself relies on the mind, as its entire thing is through refusing to die. But SUNNY wasn't exactly erased when OMORI used it, it required quite a few times.

then they'll have to deal with layered fear manipulation

ERASE can give enemies the AFRAID status effect, preventing them from doing anything other than basic attacks. Omori's AFRAID can bypass the effects of the CALM DOWN skill, which can provide resistance to the AFRAID status effect

Chara's entire thing is using melee combat with physical weapons (the Real Knife here I assume, and SUNNY does do that also) and using the "error and repeat over and over" strategy until they do win.

BFRing Chara

How does it work? I never played OMORI in a powerscaling look, so I'd need to see.

summoning red hands to pin down Chara

Eeeh, ok. Chara could just LOAD back though.

stat reduce Chara or amp himself with numerous equipment he has

Chara can use basically anything Frisk can through ACTing/Items, they can catch up through that. Not to mention that they also have the short-time invulnerability that triggers whenever they're hit, so it's not exactly a factor (plus OMORI iirc does not have speed stuffs).

attacking Chara's pressure points (and make himself luckier to hit them by making himself happier or having supernatural luck items)

Resetting the fight might make this a non-factor tbh.

 

[McFriesGuy075]

How does it work? I never played OMORI in a powerscaling look, so I'd need to see

We don't exactly get a visual how, he just banished Abbi to the Abyss, sent Basil into Black Space (Which there is no way to escape whatsoever), and just brought Sunny into white space (which he never appeared in after OMORI's appearance)

Chara can use basically anything Frisk can through ACTing/Items, they can catch up through that. Not to mention that they also have the short-time invulnerability that triggers whenever they're hit, so it's not exactly a factor (plus OMORI iirc does not have speed stuffs).

On the contrary, OMORI has plenty of speed stuff that according to game stats could bump him to hypersonic. MANIC makes him 2X faster, coffee enhances speed by 400% (which can be stacked up to 4 times), making it a total of 18x faster than default

 

[McFriesGuy075]

In addition to speed being increased, some attacks get even more powerful depending on the user's speed, like Vertigo (which also reduces the enemy attack greatly)

 

[StrymULTRA]

We don't exactly get a visual how, he just banished Abbi to the Abyss, sent Basil into Black Space (Which there is no way to escape whatsoever), and just brought Sunny into white space (which he never appeared in after OMORI's appearance)

Two questions:

• What is the range? Because the SAVE System can reach the SAVE Point even if it's in another timeline (aka 2 universes).
• Does OMORI use this in character?

On the contrary, OMORI has plenty of speed stuff that according to game stats could bump him to hypersonic. MANIC makes him 2X faster, coffee enhances speed by 400% (which can be stacked up to 4 times), making it a total of 18x faster than default

I remembered just now KEL's attack that uses the speed as attack stat.

It mostly depends if OMORI's EE can erase also the mind, and if Chara can deal with OMORI's immortalities (if they can't they can technically sleep hax him due to him not resisting it, but they lead with stabbing first of course).

 

[McFriesGuy075]

Two questions:

• What is the range? Because the SAVE System can reach the SAVE Point even if it's in another timeline (aka 2 universes).
• Does OMORI use this in character?

So... yeah you see, the profile does not make an effort to specify the range, BUT it should be universal+ because black space does not appear on the headspace map.
As for if it's in character... uh... he could resort to it at some point? But im not exactly sure if it's in character

 

[StrymULTRA]

So... yeah you see, the profile does not make an effort to specify the range, BUT it should be universal+ because black space does not appear on the headspace map.

Then Chara has no issue in dealing with it through LOADing back.

 

[McFriesGuy075]

This fight will end up like https://vsbattles.com/threads/omori-vs-chara.115126/

Usually existence erasure is treated as just that, by erasing the person, i don't know if there's anything beyond explaining that, but since OMORI does take over Sunny when erased, I think you could argue that the "Sunny mentality" is gone.

 

[McFriesGuy075]

Otherwise it will be an endless fight of OMORI defeating Chara and Chara coming back everytime, OMORI could write down stuff to take note of Chara's immortality, given he does write multiple facts down after fighting a foe after seeing them once. Additionally, he absolutely does not succumb to any damage at his peak (i think this is under his possibly immortality type 5)

 

[StrymULTRA]

but since OMORI does take over Sunny when erased, I think you could argue that the "Sunny mentality" is gone.

Yeah I am talking about that, because OMORI did overwrite SUNNY's mind through erasing him (aka the main personality), and effectively replacing him.

 

[Axorandom0]

I had no idea Undertale got an 8-B calc until now lol. Anyways, I hope my two cents makes sense.

Anyways, Omori has a lot more options than Chara and also has the stat advantage. However, I don’t think they have any way around each other’s immortality. Omori can’t die and Chara can’t stay dead, so it goes on forever.

Eeeh, ok. Chara could just LOAD back though.

This is basically just Point A for how most of Omori’s toolkit can just be bypassed by Chara. BFRing and Restraining seem to just be bypassed by LOADing.

Otherwise it will be an endless fight of OMORI defeating Chara and Chara coming back everytime, OMORI could write down stuff to take note of Chara's immortality, given he does write multiple facts down after fighting a foe after seeing them once. Additionally, he absolutely does not succumb to any damage at his peak (i think this is under his possibly immortality type 5)

I don’t think Omori could write down anything about Chara’s immortality due to the fact that Chara’s immortality works via time travel.

If Chara does resist EE then they'll have to deal with layered fear manipulation

Chara’s profile doesn’t list resisting existence erasure, so that would actually be one of Omori’s options that could work.

It mostly depends if OMORI's EE can erase also the mind, and if Chara can deal with OMORI's immortalities (if they can't they can technically sleep hax him due to him not resisting it, but they lead with stabbing first of course).

Sleeping Omori is also one of Chara’s options that could work. However, as said here, it’s not something that’s likely to be led with, but Omori also doesn’t lead with EE (he only starts using it in Phase 2 IIRC), so it depends on who first figures out to use their wincon. And I kinda lean on Chara doing that first because Omori has other options that would lead to Chara LOADing (stuff like BFR and restraining) and having a head start on figuring out which hax works.

 

[McFriesGuy075]

Voting inconclusive

 

[McFriesGuy075]

Also from what i'm seeing neither Frisk nor Chara have weapon mastery, this means OMORI has the upper hand in skills, since he defeated foes that have studied the art of combat for centuries, whom consider Harold, who has studied the art of the blade (basically alike Chara's main weapon) for decades, inexperienced.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Sleeping Omori is also one of Chara’s options that could work. However, as said here, it’s not something that’s likely to be led with, but Omori also doesn’t lead with EE (he only starts using it in Phase 2 IIRC), so it depends on who first figures out to use their wincon. And I kinda lean on Chara doing that first because Omori has other options that would lead to Chara LOADing (stuff like BFR and restraining) and having a head start on figuring out which hax works.

My main problem is how Omori's immortality actually works, because Chara offensively has just stabbing really hard as their arsenal, and OMORI can "lol nope" it through refusing to succumb.

But I do largely agree that Chara has this luxury of being able to remember previous defeats, and thus learning how to quickly deal with the opponent until they eventually manage to land the killing blow, making them eventually able to completely adapt to OMORI's entire arsenal and make them basically untouchable to him, thus once they learn that OMORI cannot be killed normally, then they'll just incapacitate him through sleep hax before OMORI managed to erase them with ERASE.

Also from what i'm seeing neither Frisk nor Chara have weapon mastery, this means OMORI has the upper hand in skills, since he defeated foes that have studied the art of the combat for centuries, whom consider Harold, who has studied the art of the blade (basically Chara's main weapon) for decades, inexperienced.

They should have, yes. After all they eventually do manage to outskill and defeat Undyne and Asgore via enough RESETs.

 

[McFriesGuy075]

But I do largely agree that Chara has this luxury of being able to remember previous defeats, and thus learning how to quickly deal with the opponent until they eventually manage to land the killing blow, making them eventually able to completely adapt to OMORI's entire arsenal and make them basically untouchable to him, thus once they learn that OMORI cannot be killed normally, then they'll just incapacitate him through sleep hax before OMORI managed to erase them with ERASE.

If it gets to this point OMORI will actually start spamming erase

 

[StrymULTRA]

If it gets to this point OMORI will actually start spamming erase

Chara would incap before. Plus OMORI wouldn't just start off the bat with it, given that OMORI used it against SUNNY in order to overwrite him and take control of his body, Chara here would be just another boss like SWEETHEART or PLUTO.

 

[McFriesGuy075]

Chara would incap before.

From what i've seen the song takes a long time to actually work, if OMORI feels himself getting tired he would resort to drastic measures

 

[StrymULTRA]

From what i've seen the song takes a long time to actually work

Only twice, actually.

 

[McFriesGuy075]

He would not give Chara any space to keep singing when he realizes, and i think sleep manip could be countered by coffee

 

[StrymULTRA]

He would not give Chara any space to keep singing when he realizes, and i think sleep manip could be countered by coffee

This does make sense actually. Knight Knight just kinda... not opposes you.

I suppose OMORI does eventually win thanks to ERASE, and Chara cannot do absolutely nothing about it, as he'll just refuse to succumb anytime Chara will deal a killing blow. Plus Chara would just rage-quit if finishing off OMORI is just impossible.

 

[McFriesGuy075]

Given that Chara will eventually give up at some point in time, i might as well switch my vote to OMORI

 

[Axorandom0]

I agree, voting Omori fra

 

[Bruhtelho]

Bump

 

[StrymULTRA]

Guys how can Chara win though? It's a stomp.

 

[Bruhtelho]

Guys how can Chara win though? It's a stomp.

would their be anyway to make it fair? I mean looking at it currently Chara's wincon would be putting Omori to Sleep which doesn't take long and were ignoring that when Chara did it to knight knight the first time, he was visibly drowsy, this could stagger Omori enough for Chara to continue singing till he's out cold especially since it doesn't seem like a very long song.

 

[StrymULTRA]

would their be anyway to make it fair? I mean looking at it currently Chara's wincon would be putting Omori to Sleep which doesn't take long and were ignoring that when Chara did it to knight knight the first time, he was visibly drowsy, this could stagger Omori enough for Chara to continue singing till he's out cold especially since it doesn't seem like a very long song.

OMORI has the coffee, and given we're still talking of a RPG playable character, he's anything but dumb. He'd recognize Chara as a non conventional opponent that easily deals with all his arsenal, so he'd have no choice but to use ERASE.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Isn’t this a stomp?

 

[McFriesGuy075]

I don't know if it makes it a stomp or not, but being honest this is probably one of the only ways, if not the only way Omori can win if we're factoring both characters useful options here

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I mean Omori uses EE here as first move and there’s nothing Chara can do about it

 

[Bruhtelho]

I could change it so that Omori doesn't have access to Coffee or any sort of items, at that point it'd come down to Erasing Chara VS putting OMORI to Sleep

 

[StrymULTRA]

I could change it so that Omori doesn't have access to Coffee or any sort of items, at that point it'd come down to Erasing Chara VS putting OMORI to Sleep

Can you even remove Standard Equiment?

 

[Bruhtelho]

Can you even remove Standard Equiment?

SBA states at the very beginning that "if no alternative assumptions are specified by the thread creator", they're just that assumptions unless the thread creator says otherwise

 

[Axorandom0]

I could change it so that Omori doesn't have access to Coffee or any sort of items, at that point it'd come down to Erasing Chara VS putting OMORI to Sleep

If that happens, Chara would still have to figure out that sleeping Omori is the go-to option and Omori would be even more likely to just spam EE because now he can't do his fancy knife tricks.

 

[Bruhtelho]

If that happens, Chara would still have to figure out that sleeping Omori is the go-to option and Omori would be even more likely to just spam EE because now he can't do his fancy knife tricks.

Why would "no coffee" make Omori more likely to use Erase?, he'd still have his other arsenal just not the one that counters Chara's win-con HARD. and Chara has infinite retries, once she realizes physical combat is pointless due to his immortality, she'd opt for the incap option.

Bump

 

[azontr]

Why are we pretending like ERASE is some kind of out-of-character move for Omori, that the situation needs to be fixed so that he's more likely to use it? He uses it in nearly every attack in his fight. It'd be the very first thing he starts with.