Ohnoki durability upgrade

[MinatoSparkle]

Ohnoki survived being right in the middle of the Tengai Shinsei when it hit the ground, the same attack that disintegrated Edo Madara.
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This is despite Madara having the Humanoid Susanoo active (it's a bit hard to see in the last page, but a bit of the dark blue of the Susanoo is visible in the edges of the drawing where he asked about the second meteor).
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Given that Ohnoki survived the attack with far less damage much closer to the epicenter of the attack and Madara had a technique that greatly increased his durability, Ohnoki's durability should be At least High 7-A+.

He doesn't really have anti-feats against this either. His stone golem pretty much tanked Madara's Yasaka Magatamas (albeit they were weakened by the sand shield).
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He wasn't particularly damaged by Madara's Susanoo slapping him to the ground.
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The only thing that injured Ohnoki more than Tengai Shinsei is the Perfect Susanoo, which is far stronger.
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All around, it's pretty consistent for Ohnoki's durability to be this high.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

I agree

 

[MadaraZKX]

Yes

 

[KingTempest]

The Susanoo has more surface area than his body, allowing it to take much more of the yield of the meteor. Onoki’s body is tiny, allowing him to take a small portion of the meteor.

There is no way in hell his durability is superior to the Susanoo’s

 

[MinatoSparkle]

The Susanoo has more surface area than his body, allowing it to take much more of the yield of the meteor. Onoki’s body is tiny, allowing him to take a small portion of the meteor.

There is no way in hell his durability is superior to the Susanoo’s

Either way, he's more durable than Madara's own body.

 

[KingTempest]

Either way, he's more durable than Madara's own body.

No he does not

 

[MinatoSparkle]

No he does not

So...being able to survive an attack that hits you directly is less durability than having a strong defense that's plowed through and yet you're still completely reduced to dust despite being far away from the center of the attack just because Madara's taller than Ohnoki? That's definitely not a stretch in the slightest.

 

[Rocker1189]

The Susanoo has more surface area than his body, allowing it to take much more of the yield of the meteor. Onoki’s body is tiny, allowing him to take a small portion of the meteor.

There is no way in hell his durability is superior to the Susanoo’s

Actually this would not matter if Onoki was the sole target of the meteor because he would still take the full yield of the attack. It would be like hammering a nail. The nail would still take the full yield of the hammer despite having a much smaller surface area. That being said. I do not agree with the upgrade for this exact same reasons. Onoki did not take the full yield of the meteors. The first one he did not straight up stop it meaning most of the energy was being thrown into the air and he only "tanked" a portion of the force of the meteor. The second meteor was also tanked by the first meteor, Onoki and Gaara's sand meaning he did not get the full yield there either.

 

[KingTempest]

So...being able to survive an attack that hits you directly is less durability than having a strong defense that's plowed through and yet you're still completely reduced to dust despite being far away from the center of the attack just because Madara's taller than Ohnoki? That's definitely not a stretch in the slightest.

Being completely incapacitated and severely wounded does not make you scale.

And no, he was not directly in the center, or else they wouldn’t have been able to retrieve his body.

 

[Rocker1189]

And no, he was not directly in the center, or else they wouldn’t have been able to retrieve his body.

I mean he was lol, he likely just got blown away. I agree with the first statement though he more like survived barely than tanked.

 

[KingTempest]

Fair I guess

regardless, I disagree

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I have to agree with Tempest.
Onoki's durability was actually calculated in the past iirc, and it was pretty disappointing. Though that was a long time ago, so if you want an accurate rating for his durability, you might wanna ask someone to try and calc it I guess.

Anyway, it IS inconsistent. This would make Onoki effectively more durable than his Golem, which was cracked by the Susano'o even with a Sand Shield softening the blow.
Also, there's a reason we didn't use the "Susano'o slap" for scaling. It's pretty damn weird. It didn't really seem to have much momentum or force behind it. The Susano'o didn't **** back its arm or anything. Just a weird looking moment all around tbf.

 

[Rocker1189]

I also disagree for the reasons I said above. I have thought about this feat for a while myself.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Actually this would not matter if Onoki was the sole target of the meteor because he would still take the full yield of the attack. It would be like hammering a nail. The nail would still take the full yield of the hammer despite having a much smaller surface area. That being said. I do not agree with the upgrade for this exact same reasons. Onoki did not take the full yield of the meteors. The first one he did not straight up stop it meaning most of the energy was not being thrown into the air and he only "tanked" a portion of the force of the meteor. The second meteor was also tanked by the first meteor, Onoki and Gaara's sand meaning he did not get the full yield there either.

I'm not scaling Ohnoki's durability to the full yield of the meteors. If I did that, he'd have 6-C+ durability. I'm just saying since Ohnoki survived the attack and Madara's body didn't despite having the Susanoo, Ohnoki's more durable than Edo Madara.

Being completely incapacitated and severely wounded does not make you scale.

And no, he was not directly in the center, or else they wouldn’t have been able to retrieve his body.

Once again, I'm not scaling Ohnoki to the Tengai Shinsei, I'm upscaling his durability from Madara's.

I have to agree with Tempest.
Onoki's durability was actually calculated in the past iirc, and it was pretty disappointing. Though that was a long time ago, so if you want an accurate rating for his durability, you might wanna ask someone to try and calc it I guess.

Anyway, it IS inconsistent. This would make Onoki effectively more durable than his Golem, which was cracked by the Susano'o even with a Sand Shield softening the blow.

But Ohnoki was heavily injured by the Tengai Shinsei, which is more than just his ninjutsu being cracked. Besides, Yasaka Magatama is a special move, so it can be stronger than the Susanoo's regular attacks/durability, just like how Itachi's Yasaka Magatama scales to Gyuki's Bijuudama despite his Susanoo not even being 6-C normally.

Also, there's a reason we didn't use the "Susano'o slap" for scaling. It's pretty damn weird. It didn't really seem to have much momentum or force behind it. The Susano'o didn't **** back its arm or anything. Just a weird looking moment all around tbf.

Sure, but even if it was a weak attack, Ohnoki still didn't show any pain, so it's not an antifeat anyways.

 

[KingTempest]

I'm not scaling Ohnoki's durability to the full yield of the meteors. If I did that, he'd have 6-C+ durability. I'm just saying since Ohnoki survived the attack and Madara's body didn't despite having the Susanoo, Ohnoki's more durable than Edo Madara.

Once again, I'm not scaling Ohnoki to the Tengai Shinsei, I'm upscaling his durability from Madara's.

Which you cannot do.

Your scaling goes like this.

Onoki < Large Meteor Yield > Small Meteor Yield >>> Madara's Durability

Inconsistencies aside, here are the issues.

Madara is an edo tensei.
And even though he doesn't have paper durability, any significant amount of damage from a papercut to complete incineration will dust his body.

This makes it extremely difficult to gauge his durability and those who scale.

Now I'm not saying that this feat is a 100% outlier and that he should never scale for any reason at all, but you're trying to scale/upscale his durability off of that.

If you want to backscale his durability like this

A-6 (Although physically inferior to Madara's durability, he did take a large portion of the Tengai Shinsei which did destroy a large portion of Madara's Edo Tensei body, and he shouldn't be too inferior)

To maybe baseline or higher of the tier, then I can understand.

But trying to make it relative or superior off of this is where I disagree

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Which you cannot do.

Your scaling goes like this.

Onoki < Large Meteor Yield > Small Meteor Yield >>> Madara's Durability

Inconsistencies aside, here are the issues.

Madara is an edo tensei.
And even though he doesn't have paper durability, any significant amount of damage from a papercut to complete incineration will dust his body.

It'll dust his body, but it won't completely destroy him. His body turning to dust is the same as an alive person bleeding. An attack that does that still scales to/above the character's durability.

This makes it extremely difficult to gauge his durability and those who scale.

It really doesn't...

Now I'm not saying that this feat is a 100% outlier and that he should never scale for any reason at all, but you're trying to scale/upscale his durability off of that.

If you want to backscale his durability like this

There's literally no reason to say his durability is inferior to Madara. Saying that without proof is fallacious. Also not sure what A-6 means.

To maybe baseline or higher of the tier, then I can understand.

But trying to make it relative or superior off of this is where I disagree

So what do you think would happen if Madara stood in the middle of the meteor's path and he shrunk to Ohnoki's size and just took the attack head-on? Would he tank it?

Also another way to scale Ohnoki's durability this high is to say that Edo Madara tanked V1 Ay's punch who's High 7-A, and Ohnoki took an attack that did way more to his Edo body than Ay.

 

[KingTempest]

So we're ignoring "severely damaged" huh

 

[MinatoSparkle]

So we're ignoring "severely damaged" huh

?

 

[Rocker1189]

I do want tpo point something out that Uchiha slayer said. About the susanoo attack. It slammed all the kage hard enough that they broke the wood style roots which as we know are tough enough to break Onoki's golems with ease. The Kage all tanked this attack as well so it does lend sme credence to GokuSoarkle's idea.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I guess with that in mind, Tempest's idea of downscaling is a decent middle ground.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I guess with that in mind, Tempest's idea of downscaling is a decent middle ground.

When you say that, do you mean to baseline High 7-A or baseline High 7-A+?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

When you say that, do you mean to baseline High 7-A or baseline High 7-A+?

Well, unless my understanding is incorrect, when you downscale you downscale to the baseline of the tier you're currently in.
Assuming we go with this option, Onoki would be downscaling from Madara who upscales baseline High 7-A+, so he'd be baseline High 7-A+.
Though someone can correct me on this if I'm wrong.

 

[Damage3245]

I fully disagree with this. Onoki did not take anywhere near the full yield of the meteor hit, and I don't agree with him downscaling from it either.

 

[KingTempest]

He’s trying to scale him above Madara, not to the meteor’s yield

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I fully disagree with this. Onoki did not take anywhere near the full yield of the meteor hit, and I don't agree with him downscaling from it either.

While I'm not exactly onboard with this myself, technically that's not really what's being proposed by the OP.

 

[Damage3245]

He’s trying to scale him above Madara, not to the meteor’s yield

I see... That's even weirder considering Onoki's massive inferiority to Madara.

While I'm not exactly onboard with this myself, technically that's not really what's being proposed by the OP.

I see. I misread the OP.

 

[Damage3245]

How do we know Onoki, after the initial hit, didn't just manage fly away fast enough to avoid being completely destroyed off-screen?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

How do we know Onoki, after the initial hit, didn't just manage fly away fast enough to avoid being completely destroyed off-screen?

We don't tbh. It kinda cuts away from Onoki right before the impact.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I see... That's even weirder considering Onoki's massive inferiority to Madara.

Ohnoki withstood the Tengai Shinsei. Madara was disintegrated. It's as simple as that.

We don't tbh. It kinda cuts away from Onoki right before the impact.

It says "Thoom" while Ohnoki was still there meaning he was hit.

 

[Damage3245]

We don't tbh. It kinda cuts away from Onoki right before the impact.

Upgrading Onoki because of this off-screen "feat" doesn't look very solid to me then.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Upgrading Onoki because of this off-screen "feat" doesn't look very solid to me then.

Even if he moved away somewhat, he was closer to it than Madara.

 

[KingTempest]

Well, unless my understanding is incorrect, when you downscale you downscale to the baseline of the tier you're currently in.
Assuming we go with this option, Onoki would be downscaling from Madara who upscales baseline High 7-A+, so he'd be baseline High 7-A+.
Though someone can correct me on this if I'm wrong.

This is usually the case 99% of the time yeah, but Madara is like… ridiculously close to baseline.

Not sure where he should be tbh, maybe “Large Mountain level, at most Large Mountain level+“?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

This is usually the case 99% of the time yeah, but Madara is like… ridiculously close to baseline.

Is he? Edo Madara>>Edo Tobirama>>EMS Sasuke=Baseline High 7-A+

 

[KingTempest]

Is he? Edo Madara>>Edo Tobirama>>EMS Sasuke=Baseline High 7-A+

Madara isn’t that far from Tobirama, but yeah Tobirama’s above Sasuke.

The point of the value they scale above being so close to baseline is the issue tho. If they backscale to baseline midpoint idk if it would even be a 1.05% difference

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Madara isn’t that far from Tobirama, but yeah Tobirama’s above Sasuke.

The point of the value they scale above being so close to baseline is the issue tho. If they backscale to baseline midpoint idk if it would even be a 1.05% difference

Madara's at least on par with Base Edo Hashirama whose chakra flex completely drawfed Tobirama's.

It's kind of unquantifiable but I'd say more than 1.05x.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Not sure where he should be tbh, maybe “Large Mountain level, at most Large Mountain level+“?

Honestly, I'm unsure of what to do myself. Kind of a weird situation all around.
Maybe an "At least [current tier] (current justification), possibly/likely High 7-A+ (insert OP's proposal. Insert Onoki surviving the slap and getting slammed through Madara's Mokuton)? Idk tbh.

 

[Damage3245]

Madara's at least on par with Base Edo Hashirama whose chakra flex completely drawfed Tobirama's.

It's kind of unquantifiable but I'd say more than 1.05x.

So you're arguing that Onoki is close in durability to Hashirama? Seriously?


I'm still 100% against this feat being used.

 

[KingTempest]

Honestly, I'm unsure of what to do myself. Kind of a weird situation all around.
Maybe an "At least [current tier] (current justification), possibly/likely High 7-A+ (insert OP's proposal. Insert Onoki surviving the slap and getting slammed through Madara's Mokuton)? Idk tbh.

Makes sense

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Honestly, I'm unsure of what to do myself. Kind of a weird situation all around.
Maybe an "At least [current tier] (current justification), possibly/likely High 7-A+ (insert OP's proposal. Insert Onoki surviving the slap and getting slammed through Madara's Mokuton)? Idk tbh.

There ain't no way someone with 7-B durability is even gonna exist after being hit with an attack that wiped out a High 7-A+. I think At least High 7-A is better.

So you're arguing that Onoki is close in durability to Hashirama? Seriously?

Yes, because that's what the feat shows...

 

[KingTempest]

He hates Minato being under base Naruto but he’s fine with the dude who needed protection from effortless Edo Deidara bombs being relative in durability to Hashirama