Of Light and Legitimacy: Lighting the Universe

[Assaltwaffle]

Brace yourselves for some math, but this needs to be done.

Looks like something is going on with Mogo the Living Planet's feat. Found here, this calc shows what would be needed to light the universe. Mogo's part of the list of feats is only a measly 98 MegaFOE; not even in 4-A. However, when Darkanine calculated a feat for Necrozma, he found that lighting a distance equal to ~14000 light years yielded 31.8 FOE. This result is 3,081,761.0063 times less than Mogo's 98 MegaFOE, but this still doesn't make sense.

At first this could seem plausible. A radius of 46.4 billion light years is 3,286,747.71806 larger than the radius of 13,954 LY, which isn't far off the mark of 3.08 million times difference, with only about a 6.65% difference between the two values. But this isn't about radius. It is about area.

The problem is really compounded when we look at it in terms of area. The area of a sphere with the radius of 1.32015x10^20 meters (13954 light years) is 2.19×10^41 cubic meters. The area of a sphere with the radius of 4.339x10^26 meters is 2.37×10^54 cubic meters. At first glance this doesn't look too bad, but the difference between 2.19x10^41 and 2.37x10^54 is 1.082x10^13. Aside from being a big number, what does that mean? It means the area for a universe-radius sphere is more than 10 TRILLION times more than that of a ~14000 light year radius sphere. So why is lighting the universe only 3.08 million times more, when the difference between 1.082x10^13 and 3.081X10^6 is 3,511,846.803?

Why Mogo's Calc is less powerful: The Calculation for Mogo assumed that he was only as bright as Sirius is to us, instead of using the Sun. This would assume that the "beacon that lights the the universe" only appeared like a star to those on the edge of the universe. So is this valid? It depends on context. While I think Mogo could only be interpreted as a bright star, like Sirius, we need to stop saying "lighting the universe is 4-B," because it isn't. Lighting the universe like Sirius would light the Earth (not much) is 4-B. Lighting the universe like the Sun would light the Earth is 294.386 TeraFOE, cleanly into 4-A.

TLDR: Lighting the universe depends on context. We need to stop instantly saying "lighting the universe is 4-B," because it isn't automatically. Lighting the universe can be as low as 98 MegaFOE, up to 294.386 TeraFOE, or even higher if the light that illuminates the universe is more bright than the Sun appears to us.

Context matters.

This isn't hard-and-fast.

 

[Imaginym]

So, I don't claim to be too smart, but if I had to guess as to how to briefly summarize this: The yield of lighting up a universe depends on how brightly the universe is lit up?

Sorry if this offends you. I just want to be sure I understand.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Imaginym

Exactly. There is no single answer for "what tier is lighting the universe."

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I mean, yeah. It depends on the context.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Matt

Yeah, so if anyone asks "what is lighting the universe" then we can't immediately give an answer. It all depends on how bright the light appeared to be. Kinda like how "creating a storm" isn't a hard-and-fast, neither is this.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

But I think that you need some very good evidence to assume that the light would literally be seen with the brightness of the sun from the very edge of the universe.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Well only a star in the sky is pretty dim. Like Sirius wouldn't provide any light at night time. The Moon can provide visible light at night, and is at -12.6 apparent magnitude. Using the magnitude of any star (other than the Sun) is just so low.

 

[Antvasima]

So what, if anything, do we need to do about this?

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Just not instantly claim that lighting the universe is 4-B. I have seen several members doing this if someone asks what this feat yields. It should be taken on a case-by-case basis is what I am trying to make sure we understand.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

So do we know how bright the universe was then?

 

[Overlord775]

4-A thor ?

 

[Dark649]

4-A thor ?

No, i do not think Ant will allow such upgrade.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that it seems too inconsistent given that he is generally presented as in a similar power level as others of the most powerful Marvel superheroes.

 

[Js250476]

Plus as been said Thor lighting up the Dark dimension has several characters doing it not just him

 

[Golden_Void]

I wrote a few blogs on this (still waiting for them to become pages).

1. Based on my blogs I don't think "Lighting the universe like Sirius would light the Earth (not much) is 4-B. Lighting the universe like the Sun would light the Earth is 294.386 TeraFOE, cleanly into 4-A." is true. Lighting the universe like the Sun yielded me high 4-B.

2. The values depend on the brightness of the object. With Matt's Mogo calc, tbh the star used should've been the Sun or lower, not Sirius. The Sun has an apparent magnitude of about -26.74 (viewed from Earth), and -25 is the minimum brightness for eye pain. Clearly in that scan, they were about a few feet away from the light source, yet they were shielding their eyes, and Lanterns across the universe were looking straight at it. But for simplicity, the sun would suffice. In any case, they'd be blind/have oven baked brains at that distance, but for lack of better info + fiction, lets assume they can handle such intense light at close range.

Also, with Dark's calc regarding the ~13000 light years being illuminated, the result is 2.337e34w = the equivalent in j/s, and we only take one second here so that's the result. Barely 5-A, idk where TeraFoe is coming from. The result definitely shouldn't be anywhere near comparable to the actual universe size.

The value does depend on context, but the standard where applicable, should be the Sun.

 

[Js250476]

Dark even said his calc could have problems so it seems like a downgraded is necessary

 

[Antvasima]

Plus as been said Thor lighting up the Dark dimension has several characters doing it not just him

Yes, and some of the other characters are nowhere near this power level, so I think that we have to consider it as simply lightning up a small local part of the Dark Dimension.

 

[Js250476]

The fact Doctor Strange also did it who outclasses all the other characters in power is also important to note

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose so, but in this case I think that the narrator simply meant lightning up the local area that they were visiting.

 

[Js250476]

That also makes sense as well so it seems alright to me unless the entire dimension was said to light up but that wasn't said iirc

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I think that we should all drop this subject.

 

[Js250476]

Understood Ant didn't mean to go off topic like that

 

[Antvasima]

No problem.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Thor's feat was done in combination with Doctor Strange, Silver Surfer, Iron Man, Vision and Swordsman. It doesn't scale individually to any of them (Aside from Strange who has much better feats).

 

[Js250476]

^Pretty much what I've been saying

 

[Antvasima]

Agreed, and I also find it more likely that they did not light the entire Dark Dimension, just the required local part.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The narration straight up states that the whole Dark Dimension was lit. But I don't think that means that the whole universe was covered in light, but that their light could be seen throughout the universe.

 

[Antvasima]

What was the exact phrasing of the narration?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"The far reaches of the abyss around them shimmer with the coruscating brilliance there unleashed"

 

[Antvasima]

That does not say that an entire universe was lit up though, just that the light carried very far.

Oh well, I suppose that this is a pointless discussion, since it would only scale to Doctor Strange anyway.

 

[Kepekley23]

Lighting up the universe like the Sun would Earth might be 4-A, actually.

 

[Golden_Void]

Sigh

 

[Kepekley23]

Why the sigh?

 

[Antvasima]

Probably because we were having pointless conversations.