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Odin (Fortissimo) vs Yhwach
- Thread starter Leader9
- Start date
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Fortissimo will have a second revision (More like Kadenz Fermata update) and Odin will recieves several resistance along with his 100 powers KEY.
But for the current Odin's profile. After a look through Yhwach's profile, i can see Yhwach winning this via Absorbtion, The Almighty controlling future and a damn scary precog (Seeing all possible futures is a big advantage in this fight).
Odin after revision will trip all Yhwach's win-con i'm afraid. (other than his precog)
But for the current Odin's profile. After a look through Yhwach's profile, i can see Yhwach winning this via Absorbtion, The Almighty controlling future and a damn scary precog (Seeing all possible futures is a big advantage in this fight).
Odin after revision will trip all Yhwach's win-con i'm afraid. (other than his precog)
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>No resistance to Soul Manip
Yhwach stomp via Reiatsu Crush (Passive)
>No resistance to Powernull and Fate Manip
Yhwach hard stomp via passive precog/power null which is strong enough to powernull a conceptual type 3 power null from Ichibe
Yhwach stomp via Reiatsu Crush (Passive)
>No resistance to Powernull and Fate Manip
Yhwach hard stomp via passive precog/power null which is strong enough to powernull a conceptual type 3 power null from Ichibe
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didnt realize Yhwach is relavistic...
Do you allow prep time in this match ? if not then unless Yhwach can do prescene concealment (Which i dont see on his profile) Odin would probally gonna take him serious right away because of Yhwach's Overwelming Aura on his profile. Then proceed to ban Yhwach from using his power with Siegfried (conceptual law manipulation) and conceptually erase him from existence with Gotterdammerung. Yhwach then regenerate from being erased from existence ? Odin erases him again and make his erasure eternal (basically give Yhwach's death/erasure mid-godly regen) with Das Reingold
Do you allow prep time in this match ? if not then unless Yhwach can do prescene concealment (Which i dont see on his profile) Odin would probally gonna take him serious right away because of Yhwach's Overwelming Aura on his profile. Then proceed to ban Yhwach from using his power with Siegfried (conceptual law manipulation) and conceptually erase him from existence with Gotterdammerung. Yhwach then regenerate from being erased from existence ? Odin erases him again and make his erasure eternal (basically give Yhwach's death/erasure mid-godly regen) with Das Reingold
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Oh wait I forgot Odin has Mid-Godly welp that changes everything. But he doesn't have resistance to soul manip which means he will passively die and regen in Yhwach presence
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Well yes, Odin doesnt has resistance to Soul manipulation, but really doesnt matter, his regen will bring his state/existence back to a fixed point whenever a change happen. This is a really annoying regen, because even the guy got his concept of existence destroye or got reduced into nothingness, he returned as if nothing happen. Same could be said for his soul.MrDrProfessorPatricio said:
Odin cannot even kills himself, even with Gotterdammerung at it's strongest, and Gotterdammerung at it's casual state was able to destroy imagination, hope, despair, existence, strategy, dreams,ect. And of course, soul as well.
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Well you should specify that in his profile if he doesnt have a soul. Well yhwach still has powernull which will null all of Odin's power and Yhwach still has incap option like mind control unless the Odin after the revision will get that I guess.
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Odin does has a soul. It's just that it will alway regen back to it's fixed state whenever a change happen, this is Das Reingold, Odin's Eternity Absolute.
About nulling Odin's power, there's a problem about that : in Fortissimo, there's a type of magic that is Concept Magic which focusing on overwrite the target's concepts. When facing a concept magic, you can only defeat it by overwrite it with a stronger concept magic, otherwise, the attemp made against the said concept magic will get overwritten by it. "A concept can only be overwritten by stronger concept" is something you will hear prequently in Fortissimo. So in order to powernull Fortissimo's concept magics, your power should be higher than itself.
But Yhwach's power look kinda sit comfortably at 5-B while Das Reingold (Odin's mid godly regen) cannot be destroyed even Gotterdammerung at it's strongest (100% power KEY Odin is not in the profile yet, but it's Low 2-C), Gotterdammerung even at 30% is Galaxy level, Siegfried (Odin's conceptual law manipulation) can creates concepts that emcompass the entire Vahalla (a pocket dimension created by Odin, which big enough to contain a galaxy in the background) and Die Walkure (Conceptual Spatial manipulation) can creates infinite space
Looking at Yhwach's profile and his techniques, abilities, i just cant see him overwriting the above conceptual powers
About mind control, how do you even mind control a guy who will got his mind reverted back to a fixed state ? which is before mind control
About nulling Odin's power, there's a problem about that : in Fortissimo, there's a type of magic that is Concept Magic which focusing on overwrite the target's concepts. When facing a concept magic, you can only defeat it by overwrite it with a stronger concept magic, otherwise, the attemp made against the said concept magic will get overwritten by it. "A concept can only be overwritten by stronger concept" is something you will hear prequently in Fortissimo. So in order to powernull Fortissimo's concept magics, your power should be higher than itself.
But Yhwach's power look kinda sit comfortably at 5-B while Das Reingold (Odin's mid godly regen) cannot be destroyed even Gotterdammerung at it's strongest (100% power KEY Odin is not in the profile yet, but it's Low 2-C), Gotterdammerung even at 30% is Galaxy level, Siegfried (Odin's conceptual law manipulation) can creates concepts that emcompass the entire Vahalla (a pocket dimension created by Odin, which big enough to contain a galaxy in the background) and Die Walkure (Conceptual Spatial manipulation) can creates infinite space
Looking at Yhwach's profile and his techniques, abilities, i just cant see him overwriting the above conceptual powers
About mind control, how do you even mind control a guy who will got his mind reverted back to a fixed state ? which is before mind control
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Yhwach already nulled a conceptual type 3 powernull from Ichibei when he gained Almighty so it should work. Also if Odin has a soul then he will passively die and regen in Yhwach's presence and Yhwach's Almight is passive meaning at the start of the battle, Odin's powers are nulled. Yhwach can incap Odin like mind control Odin with the Love or Transmute Odin with the Visionary.
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.... just read the conceptual manipulation type 3, didnt realize it was that powerful (Odin's Siegfried should be categorized at this), if Yhwach really did resisted conceptual manipulation type 3 at universe level+ then he got my vote. But are there any other feat for Ichibe's conceptual manipulation ? because this feat seem underwhelming for a conceptual manipulation type 3
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This is from Ichibe's Profile: Power Nullification and Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3. Ichimonji releases ink that strips anything it touches of its name and powers, furthermore Ichibē can give a new name and thus powers for anything that was splattered with Ichimonji ink)
True Name Manipulation: Ichibē can control the true names of all things and all beings, the metaphysical embodiments of what they are, and he has the innate capability to determine the true name and nature of anything he beholds. It was he that named all things in the Soul Society, including Zanpakutō, Shikai, and Bankai, and he knows the names of every Zanpakutō. In addition, anyone who speaks his name without being worthy of doing so will lose their voices.
True Name Manipulation: Ichibē can control the true names of all things and all beings, the metaphysical embodiments of what they are, and he has the innate capability to determine the true name and nature of anything he beholds. It was he that named all things in the Soul Society, including Zanpakutō, Shikai, and Bankai, and he knows the names of every Zanpakutō. In addition, anyone who speaks his name without being worthy of doing so will lose their voices.
- Reconstitution: If badly injured, Ichibē can heal himself completely by having someone else speak his name, allowing him to steal a little bit of their power.
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Passives>>FTL
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Probably not, but doesnt matter anyway since Odin passively dies continuously
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Wait I don't think that's how Conceptual Manipulation scaling works. I'm not an expert regarding with this subject though
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I think the scaling is based on Higher-D or something or depending on what type of Concept Manip it is
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it's a stomp one way or another me think .
Either Yhwach powernull and soul crush constantly
or Odin is beyond Yhwach powernull and just rewrite concepts to stomp in return .
Either Yhwach powernull and soul crush constantly
or Odin is beyond Yhwach powernull and just rewrite concepts to stomp in return .
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@Leaders Odin is only 9 times faster than light in reaction speed (Scailing from Reiji), his travel speed should be much faster than speed of light since he blizted Ryuichi who was able to travel at the speed of light 
Probably not, but doesnt matter anyway since Odin passively dies continuously
well, upon revived himself, Odin can teleport himself into one of his pocket dimension right away before getting soul crushed once again. Beside, using Die Walkure, BFR Yhwach into one of his dimension and locked him there is also an option (Not even Reiji's Da Capo which can summon peoples from another dimension can summon Sakura back when she's BFR by this ability), he can BFR people while he's in the pocket dimensions btw .
Wait I don't think that's how Conceptual Manipulation scaling works. I'm not an expert regarding with this subject though.
Well, in Fortissimo, the potency of Conceptual Manipulation does matter, the weaker one will get overwritten by the stronger one, regardless of content. that's why when 2 concept magics collide, it's usually the Dragon Ball style of duel.
Probably not, but doesnt matter anyway since Odin passively dies continuously
well, upon revived himself, Odin can teleport himself into one of his pocket dimension right away before getting soul crushed once again. Beside, using Die Walkure, BFR Yhwach into one of his dimension and locked him there is also an option (Not even Reiji's Da Capo which can summon peoples from another dimension can summon Sakura back when she's BFR by this ability), he can BFR people while he's in the pocket dimensions btw .
Wait I don't think that's how Conceptual Manipulation scaling works. I'm not an expert regarding with this subject though.
Well, in Fortissimo, the potency of Conceptual Manipulation does matter, the weaker one will get overwritten by the stronger one, regardless of content. that's why when 2 concept magics collide, it's usually the Dragon Ball style of duel.
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Although we're debating for our own fun, right ? Since after the revision, this match would probally become outdated
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I dont see how Odin would do any kind of action (after regenerating) before getting crushed again since its passive
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yeah , it's passive and constant
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Welp, if it's really that fast then i suppose i would have to vote the inconclusive then
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Well , if in fortissimo, Concept manip scale like AP does in DB then Yhwach don't have a win con beside Reiatsu soul crush and even then it's just incapp .
does pre revision Odin have any kind of soul protection beside regen ? or something that goes beyond passive in speed ?
if not then he kinda get passively get stuck in a death loop via his soul constantly being crushed.
If incapp is a viable wincon then i vote Yhwach , if not then it's incon or a stomp for Odin as Yhwach would probably run out of energy after a few months or more .
for curiosity 's sake , would post revision odin gain anything to defend against soul hax ?
does pre revision Odin have any kind of soul protection beside regen ? or something that goes beyond passive in speed ?
if not then he kinda get passively get stuck in a death loop via his soul constantly being crushed.
If incapp is a viable wincon then i vote Yhwach , if not then it's incon or a stomp for Odin as Yhwach would probably run out of energy after a few months or more .
for curiosity 's sake , would post revision odin gain anything to defend against soul hax ?
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Pretty sure Yhwach can win with Absorbtion seeing how potent it is
Nope, Fortissimo characters dont really have much soul manipulation aside from Odin whose attack can destroys the soul itself, unless you can count Existence erasure and Existence Absorbtion as affecting the soul as well, then maybe.
I'm sure the case of soul crush passively isnt incap because it require Yhwach to constantly doing it (But he can win via absorbtion, i suppose), this would pretty much qualified as "inconclusive" or like you said, stomp in Odin's favor
For Post-Revision Odin's update... well, he's still wont get any resistance to soul manipulation (even in the sequel, the verse still dont get any soul manipulator other than Odin, damnit). But Odin still get various resistance to Yhwach's major haxes:
Resistance to Absorbtio: the monstrous flame of hell Forbes Blutgang of Jin and Loge can devour the existence, power (yes, both energy and unique techniques), knowledge of any victim it burns and stock their existences in the flame itself. Odin tanked the this flame and call it's useless
Resistance to Causality, Fate manipulation : Before the story of the franchise even begun, Odin has defeated Loge (more like stomped him), said who can use Akashic Record, a rune that allow him to access to Akashic Record where the entire history and future of the universe is recorded and changes it to his pleases. Loge can uses this ability to powernull , setting up a future where his attacks get direct hit or even setting up a future where he will achive his "eternal victory", even if the said eternal victory is destroyed, he will simply rewrite a new one in it's place, there's more but i likely have to spend more time gathering scans. So yeah, it's somewhat like Yhwach's Almighty, but Low 2-C. Considering this Loge is the one Odin defeated in the begining of the series, he likely can resist all these abilities and can counter them with his Absolutes, otherwise, it would be impossible for Odin to win.
If Odin get all these update, then the outcome will return to incon or stomp like the above result
Nope, Fortissimo characters dont really have much soul manipulation aside from Odin whose attack can destroys the soul itself, unless you can count Existence erasure and Existence Absorbtion as affecting the soul as well, then maybe.
I'm sure the case of soul crush passively isnt incap because it require Yhwach to constantly doing it (But he can win via absorbtion, i suppose), this would pretty much qualified as "inconclusive" or like you said, stomp in Odin's favor
For Post-Revision Odin's update... well, he's still wont get any resistance to soul manipulation (even in the sequel, the verse still dont get any soul manipulator other than Odin, damnit). But Odin still get various resistance to Yhwach's major haxes:
Resistance to Absorbtio: the monstrous flame of hell Forbes Blutgang of Jin and Loge can devour the existence, power (yes, both energy and unique techniques), knowledge of any victim it burns and stock their existences in the flame itself. Odin tanked the this flame and call it's useless
Resistance to Causality, Fate manipulation : Before the story of the franchise even begun, Odin has defeated Loge (more like stomped him), said who can use Akashic Record, a rune that allow him to access to Akashic Record where the entire history and future of the universe is recorded and changes it to his pleases. Loge can uses this ability to powernull , setting up a future where his attacks get direct hit or even setting up a future where he will achive his "eternal victory", even if the said eternal victory is destroyed, he will simply rewrite a new one in it's place, there's more but i likely have to spend more time gathering scans. So yeah, it's somewhat like Yhwach's Almighty, but Low 2-C. Considering this Loge is the one Odin defeated in the begining of the series, he likely can resist all these abilities and can counter them with his Absolutes, otherwise, it would be impossible for Odin to win.
If Odin get all these update, then the outcome will return to incon or stomp like the above result
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wait , can complete absorbtion bypass mid godly regen ? didn't know that .
incapp , as by the SBA is described as : " incapacitating the opponent by putting him in a state in which he can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day"
if the constant destruction of Odin's soul via Yhwach's aura would prevent him from harming Yhwach for over a day , then that would still count as incapp apparently .
Far weaker bleach characthers can easily fight for weeks or months so stamina isn't an issue for simply maintening his aura .
yeah, post revision odin would completly null most of Yhwach hax and win con but still couldn't do much against his soul crushing aura .
incapp , as by the SBA is described as : " incapacitating the opponent by putting him in a state in which he can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day"
if the constant destruction of Odin's soul via Yhwach's aura would prevent him from harming Yhwach for over a day , then that would still count as incapp apparently .
Far weaker bleach characthers can easily fight for weeks or months so stamina isn't an issue for simply maintening his aura .
yeah, post revision odin would completly null most of Yhwach hax and win con but still couldn't do much against his soul crushing aura .
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To be honest, Absorbtion being a win-con is just me having a hard time imagining what will happen if you absorb a character that has Mid-godly regen. Especially in Odin's case in which Das Rheingold will alway revert his existence back to a fixed state whenever a change happen. Like isnt after getting absorbed, you become apart of the being who absorbed you ? what will happen if you just reverted back to being yourself when you're apart of the said being ? Especially when Das Rheingold cant be turned-off and was compared to a curse by Odin himself because he cant undo the immortality that created by Das Rheingold.
I though it would be inconclusive since there was already a match like this . And if you scrolls down to the end, people have already brought up the incap part and it's still get treated as a inconclusive :v
And also, just a question i have been wondering something today: If ability like Jin's Forbes Blutgang can absorb the victim's existence on the conceptual level, wouldnt it gonna affect the soul as well ? Since Existence Erasure page treat the conceptual erasure is a higher degree of erasure compare to soul erasure. Seen here when Jin get conceptually erased by Momiji's Tyrfing, he spend Ichigo's existence which he absorbed earlier to revive himself along with his existence.
I though it would be inconclusive since there was already a match like this . And if you scrolls down to the end, people have already brought up the incap part and it's still get treated as a inconclusive :v
And also, just a question i have been wondering something today: If ability like Jin's Forbes Blutgang can absorb the victim's existence on the conceptual level, wouldnt it gonna affect the soul as well ? Since Existence Erasure page treat the conceptual erasure is a higher degree of erasure compare to soul erasure. Seen here when Jin get conceptually erased by Momiji's Tyrfing, he spend Ichigo's existence which he absorbed earlier to revive himself along with his existence.
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I mean Yhwach can also copy all the powers and memories of odin.
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Interesting, i didnt notice the Power Mimicry on Yhwach's profile. But can he also replicate the weapons as well ? Especially these magical weapons are tied to the magi's very existence itself, getting them destroyed will result the entire existence of the user get erased to the point they will be disappears from the memories of everyone in the world that is not a magi, leaving no proof that they ever existed in the first place.TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
Not saying that Yhwach cannot copy Odin's Ring of Nibelung, in fact, this actually already happened in the story, but then Odin revealed that the very condition to uses the Ring of Nibelung is that the user has to lost the one they loved the most, has Yhwach ever lost his romantic partner before ? (Assume it's the romantic partner, since both the time Odin mention about the condition to uses his weapon is the lost of romantic partner (Reiji's Sakura and Odin's SAKURA)), not to mention Umi's Shining Memories's power is specifically replicate the magi's magical weapons, and can replicate them to the very basic compoment.
And if he can copy all power and memories, can Yhwach also copy the magical capacities as well ? If not then i'm afraid he gonna lack power to back up his concept magics, which is gonna be a severe disadvantage because in Fortissimo, the weaker concept will alway get overwritten by the stronger concept.
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yea the old user could duplicate all even equipment of the one he was imitating so he can copy memories + power + looks + equipment
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i see, what about the conditions ? Has Yhwach ever copied the weapons similar to the Magi's magical weapons before ? And of course the primary condition to use the Ring of Nibelung as well
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dont think he could copy something at that level (or i could be mistaken but i dont think he can) the ring i can see him copyng but as far as i remember he does not have something that he loves to sacrifice but as far as powers go i do think he can copy them (as in magic etc)MagiSinbad said:
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Assuming you're talking about End of Ragnarok Reiji ? Well, he's already tanked Overlimit Gungnir (See here at minute 29:45) which is a greatly stronger version compare to a normal Gungnir, and Gungnir at it's casual state can destroys existence, soul, concepts,ect... So yeah, i think he will survived fineLeader9 said:
For comparison :
Overlimit Gungnir >>> 30% Gungnir >>> ThorHammer Full Access (which is 9 times stronger than a baseline 5-B ThorHammer)
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@TOAA wait, so he can copy people's magic capacity as well ?? O__o That's impressive !
But... what can he do if he cant copy the Ring of Nibelung ? All magi in Fortissimo are doing the combats through their magical weapon (With Reiji being... a rare exception), without the Ring of Nibelung, Odin is just a normal martial aritst with alot of war-zone experience
This is Odin without the Ring of Nibelung btw. He got his role switched from being the final boss to a normal civilian after he got his wife back lol
But... what can he do if he cant copy the Ring of Nibelung ? All magi in Fortissimo are doing the combats through their magical weapon (With Reiji being... a rare exception), without the Ring of Nibelung, Odin is just a normal martial aritst with alot of war-zone experience
This is Odin without the Ring of Nibelung btw. He got his role switched from being the final boss to a normal civilian after he got his wife back lol
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Just call me Magi lol
As much i want to answer that question, doing so will just derail the thread But i think i can keep it short : yes, i do think Reiji can win.
Beside, it's still a long time until the revision is made, first i must gather scans to explains the Kadenz Fermata characters powers, making their profiles so that we can update the Fortissimo characters profiles with the new infors from the sequel.
If i remember correctly, Bleach is still on-going right ? Then maybe until then, Yhwach might get some upgrade in the future too, and maybe strong enough to maintain his position as 4th place O3O
Anyway, this thread is pretty much concluded since it's seem no one want to discuss anymore :v
Although i still want everyone's opinion regarding "Fortissimo character's Concept Magic that affect the conceptual existence of the characters may also affect their soul as well" topic above. This though strike up to my mind when someone on the other thread mentioned that Void Manipulation also cover limited-conceptual manipulation, existence erasure. So i checked Existence Erasure page and it's seem conceptual erasure is a higher degree compare to soul erasure. Not really an attemp to upgrade the Concept Magic users tho, i just wanna know what is the consensus regarding this subject
As much i want to answer that question, doing so will just derail the thread
But i think i can keep it short : yes, i do think Reiji can win.Beside, it's still a long time until the revision is made, first i must gather scans to explains the Kadenz Fermata characters powers, making their profiles so that we can update the Fortissimo characters profiles with the new infors from the sequel.
If i remember correctly, Bleach is still on-going right ? Then maybe until then, Yhwach might get some upgrade in the future too, and maybe strong enough to maintain his position as 4th place O3O
Anyway, this thread is pretty much concluded since it's seem no one want to discuss anymore :v
Although i still want everyone's opinion regarding "Fortissimo character's Concept Magic that affect the conceptual existence of the characters may also affect their soul as well" topic above. This though strike up to my mind when someone on the other thread mentioned that Void Manipulation also cover limited-conceptual manipulation, existence erasure. So i checked Existence Erasure page and it's seem conceptual erasure is a higher degree compare to soul erasure. Not really an attemp to upgrade the Concept Magic users tho, i just wanna know what is the consensus regarding this subject
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