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Observation VS Truth

Nanashi FRA. THe shear veriaty of hax he has would overwelm Lowest Manifestation Battler in the long run. Battler may have an advantage during the initial phase(s) but after a certain amount of time Nanashi will be able to weaken Battler since Nanashi is capable of playing the long run.
 
JBennett said:
Setsuna tenma said:
battler regen is out of nanashi paygrade

even if their bodies and souls will be erased to nothing beyond the entire infinite hierarchy of stories and dimensions, they can still retur (High-Godly Regenerationn)
Click to expand...
That Regenerationn is only for his other Tier, This tier doesn't have it.
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Thanks for pointing that out I was of the belife that this was an ability possed by all higher layer characters with in uminko due to their capacity to exist within the sea of Nothingness.
 
@Dark It is, it's just this tier for him is his Lowest Maifestation key not his Higher Layers Key.

@Sets He still does. it just doesn't show him having it but it does mention "All previous Power and Abilities to immensely higher degrees"
 
Setsuna tenma said:
well creator nanashi does not have observation from what i know now since he is no longer human.Batller can resist all of nanashis things with endless nine.
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No, Demi Fiend retains it even as a demon, so Nanashi should too, especially since YHVH's covenant gave him observation
 
RebubleUselet said:
Darkmage2015 said:
Voting tie as I belive Battler cannot destroy Nanashi's souce of type 8 imortalility, however Nanashi has no way to deal with Battlers high godly Regenerationn.
Click to expand...
High-Godly Regenerationn negation is, like, literally in Nanashi's first key
With that being said, Nanashi FRA
Click to expand...
you missed his vote.
 
Alright, time to get down to business.

First things first. On the surface, Endless Nine is conceptual immunity to magic from virtually any beings of[a comparable or lower level of existence (https://imgur.com/a/q8BbfaZ) While this alone is impressive, it should be noted that a consequence of the nature of magic in 07th is that it encompasses existence and nonexistence on a conceptual level, fate, the laws that govern reality, what is possible and what is not, etc.

As a result of this, truths in Umineko are far more than just conceptual attacks that target the opponent. Even while restricted by the rules of a gameboard and even when used by a piece like the Battler in this battle (NPI), they are capable of altering the structure of reality as to make the opponent's victory impossible. Furthermore, attacks of that nature are well within the paygrade of Endless Nine and will likely be easily negged. While Nanashi can resist conceptual attacks, so can every decent opponent in Umineko; a degree of resistance doesn't imply that he'd be able to no sell a barrage of truths especially considering the relative scale of their powers (9-D vs at least 10-D). Nanashi's dura neg only works on comparable enemies, a minimum full dimensional level between the two means that ain't happening; Battler can one-shot Nanashi but the reverse isn't true.

Battler has been shown to be capable of quickly adapting to a diverse array of strategies and, again (https://imgur.com/a/yIMnJOQ) using his abilities within the restrictions of a gameboard in which the rules were not set by him.

NOTE: I'm not finished but I have to get back up to the desk at work, there's nothing going on so I'll likely be able to finish it up there but let it be known that I haven't typed out extremely important parts of my argument yet. This is probably about 1/3 of it cuz I hadda rush.

Now, how is Battler going to deal with Observation? Given the difference in the scale of their abilities, it's likely that he can simply neg it but even rejecting that idea, truth is a natural counter and denying the 'answer to which there is no answer' is something that multiple manifestations of Battler constantly do (including his piece self) over the course of the first half of Umineko. What about High-Godly Regen? Battler doesn't need to conventionally erase Nanashi and will likely quickly realize it isn't a viable option after the opening stages of their battle. He can deny the possibility of Nanashi's existence and enforce his truth with power on a much higher scale than the latter has encountered (i.e.: affecting the laws of whichever reality it is they're fighting in).

EDIT2: Sorry, I gotta do this again guys but I don't have time to finish my points here as I gotta get off the computer in a few min, feel free to start making counter arguments; this suffices as an introduction to the angle I'm taking. Forgive the weird formatting, couple of the links weren't displaying properly and idk why.

Quick addition: anything shown from other manifestations of Battler is there to illustrate the functioning of Endless Nine or the interactions of conceptual attacks in Umi between beings of similar levels of power and the same level of existence.
 
Observation works on those who are higher then the user, its the reason why only humans have it and not demons, gods, or angels so even if Battle is higher then Nanashi, he should be able to work on him, even if it isn't very effective.

It allows one to compelty alter any supernatrual to their very core even those who are outside of time, those who can survive the destruction of the Multiverse and humanity (despite being created by Humanity in the first place), and even weakening those who are conceptualized as the supreme being of Creation despite being conceptulized by Observation in the first place.

I wouldn't say its above Truths, its definetly comparable since it aplies a truth to a question and is capable of rewriting those truths degrading them entierly. The only reason I would belive that Observation would be higher then Truths would be because Truths have a limit base on what is already true while Observation is capable of rewritting what is true.

An example of the limitation of Truths is that Battler was able to speak in Red, 'he was Kinzo's grandson' but couldn't say, 'he was Azuna's Son'. The entire point in the Witches Games is to exploit the limitation of the Red Truths by w

An example of what Observaton is capable of is when the God Baal was degraded into the demons Baalzebub 'the Lord of the Flies' and Bael 'the First Principal Spirit who rules as king of the East', conceptually changing his entire being into two completly different beings with their own core and identidy, while they too are viewed as different from Baal.
 
Just as a reminder, this is Lowest Manifistation Battler not Higher Layer Battler so the P&A his is limited to pales to his stronger key so here's what he is listed as having

"Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Flight, Magic, Invulnerable to Magic including to that of which can deny aspects of an individual's existence even when on the same plane via Endless Nine , Non-Corporeal (Exists as a spiritual entity that only takes form when he thinks about it), Higher-Dimensional Manipulation (Can manipulate fragments, which contain infinite possibilities and higher dimensions), Conceptual Manipulation (Can deny the concept of someone's existence via the Red and Blue Truths, can create concepts just by thinking about it such as when he created the concept of gravity for himself), Reality Warping (Can weave fragments, can create an entire game from multiple fragments), Probability Manipulation, Acausality, Teleportation, Immortality (Types 1, 3, and 4)"

Anything from the other key is beyond this Battler, just as a friendly reminder. Definetly a good arguent you posted, really goes into the mechanics of Truths and what he has shown during his time I'm actualy excited to see the rest.
 
Ok, I'm writing more of my arguments tonight but I'd like to clarify something before I continue. The OP specifies Piece Battler so I've been building my args around that but strictly speaking by the current profiles, his 1-C key applies all the way up to Territory Lord Battler and Piece Battler isn't pictured in OP so I'd like to confirm which Battler we're working with here.
 
Game Master Battler (Lowest Manifestation) is 'at least 1-C', Higher layers (Meta World/Cathedral/Golden Land/City Of Books) is 'at least High 1-C to 1-B. Far higher via hax'
 
Nvm, thought it would be weird that Territory Lord Battler (Cathedral) would be considered 1-C but this still necessitates the change because Game Master Battler is very obviously not a piece.
 
Well, it used to say Piece Battler but tis changed now. In any case, despite the fundamentals staying the same I have to restructure my argument even if only because I have more direct feats to work with
 
I find how they set up his Keys a bit weird, wouldn't Game master Battler have the same powers as his later Key? Its almost like they took piece Battler and named it Game Master instead.
 
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