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Might change after more points are given but with the key change my vote is tie
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Observation VS Truth
- Thread starter Phoenix821
- Start date
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Bump.
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Bump.
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Bump.
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Mind giving a reason...?Darkmage2015 said:
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Nanashi FRA
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Finally done
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gotta help out on MegaTen pages when i can, my dude
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He changed it because that's the only one that's 1C
Not like it matters since the same reasons apply
Not like it matters since the same reasons apply
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Ok, i actually have to get on giving my revised args now but Genki is correct, p much all of the votes were for Nanashi vs Piece Battler and the match was changed to be vs GM Battler
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shouldn't change it tho. 1-C matches can be added, right? it's just 1-A ones that aren't (excepting 0 and high 1-A cause they don't do matches)
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Maybe it ultimately changes the result, maybe it doesn't but the fact remains that most of the votes were under the presumption that a diff version of the character was being used
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Even if everyone who has voted for Nanashi thus far decides to reaffirm their votes, there should still be a 24hr grace period bc it's not unanimous: I'm voting for Battler and made that pretty clear lol
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If you're asking me if the nature of Endless Nine changes then no. Nevertheless, I have more scans to show on Endless Nine among other things (direct feats by GM Battler, nature of truths, etc..)
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Maybe you'll change your mind, maybe you won't. I'll be typing my revised thing up in several hours when I'm home with access to my computer.
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Endless 9 is a powerful defence though I'm pretty sure it's only againts Nanashi's magic ablilites but I'll get to those later. The Truths are a good offence but I don't think he'll be able to completly erase Nanashi if only due to the limilation of the Blue and Red truths.
Battler isn't a combative fighter nor does he have much experience fighting while Nanashi has training and has a lot of experience fighting powerful beings so Nanashi does have an advantage though not one that nets him the lead. Endless 9 is only good againts magic ablilites so it won't block all of Nanashi's attacks specifically his physical ones.
The thing that will no doubt net Nanashi the win is Observation though it would only work after being used a long period of time weaking Battler over time to a point where Nanashi can kill him. Can Battler Kill Nanashi before that? Probably, but I believe Nanashi is skilled enough, or at least determind enough to hold out untill then.
Battler isn't a combative fighter nor does he have much experience fighting while Nanashi has training and has a lot of experience fighting powerful beings so Nanashi does have an advantage though not one that nets him the lead. Endless 9 is only good againts magic ablilites so it won't block all of Nanashi's attacks specifically his physical ones.
The thing that will no doubt net Nanashi the win is Observation though it would only work after being used a long period of time weaking Battler over time to a point where Nanashi can kill him. Can Battler Kill Nanashi before that? Probably, but I believe Nanashi is skilled enough, or at least determind enough to hold out untill then.
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How can battler kill Nanashi again? I don't know
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"Nanashi's powers of Observation vastly exceed that of normal Humans, being fully capable of reproducing feats that would take hundreds of Humans by himself, with him being capable of debasing even Transcendental Supreme Gods such as YHVH, who had his Omnipotence and connection to the world he embodied denied in the Final Battle, turning him into a mere Demon that could be permanently killed in spite of ties with The Axiom itself"
that's what it says in his profile in this site, so yeah it does.
that's what it says in his profile in this site, so yeah it does.
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I meant change Battler little by little since I'm guessing that Nanashi couldn't just simply will Battler to be a Demon or a lesser being, so I was just saying he would just change him in incraments like he did againts YHVH. It wasn't one massive change but smaller ones that eventrually changed him completly.Yobobojojo said:
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The idea can still work here, the process may not be the same but the concept still works. I'm not saying Nanashi can just will Battler to be weak but if Nanashi can deny the truths that YHVH set up himself, or probably more specifically that Humanity created, then Nanashi should be able to do the same to Battler.
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Well I guess it depends on what truths is actually being denied but I was just being safe and assumed that not everything could easily be denied nor would everything have a great impart. Deny 'smaller' truths before denying 'larger' truths was what I was personally going for, since I was acting on the impression that Nanashi couldn't just simply denied those like the Truths or his E9 right at the start.
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Time to do this. I've already given a description of magic, Endless Nine, and truths in 07th so let's go from there but I'd like to reiterate that magic in 07th includes pretty much everything outside the capacity of what normal humans alone can do and as I described earlier that includes: existence and nonexistence on a conceptual level, fate, the laws that govern reality, what is possible and what is not, etc..among other things.
Even Piece Battler in his fight with Dlanor was capable of combating versatile conceptual attacks on this level.
Battler does have experience fighting despite it often being portrayed unconventionally especially in the visual novel. This is evident in his first fight with Dlanor and his second among others. He's also very adaptable and by the time he becomes the Game Master, he's dealt with Beatrice whose infinite catbox was so complex and such a spectacle that it baffled and captivated the witches of the Senate. He's dealt with Erika, a genius and double of Bernkastel manifested specifically to kill him and torture Beato. He's dealt with Dlanor who is a brutally efficient inquisitor dispatched to kill any who would misuse magic and who has extensive experience denying the existence of opponents in combat. Battler is also the kinda guy to shoot for his win condition and quickly and effectively respond to whatever his opponent throws at him regardless of how absurd his chosen tactic should be (memes, I know but it's still a conceptual attack).
Endless Nine itself has bee show over and over agai to be extremely effective against opponents on the same plane of existence even should they exist on far higher planes.
Nanashi's Observation is going to clash with Endless Nine while Battler's truths dismantle the nature of its existence
Even Piece Battler in his fight with Dlanor was capable of combating versatile conceptual attacks on this level.
Battler does have experience fighting despite it often being portrayed unconventionally especially in the visual novel. This is evident in his first fight with Dlanor and his second among others. He's also very adaptable and by the time he becomes the Game Master, he's dealt with Beatrice whose infinite catbox was so complex and such a spectacle that it baffled and captivated the witches of the Senate. He's dealt with Erika, a genius and double of Bernkastel manifested specifically to kill him and torture Beato. He's dealt with Dlanor who is a brutally efficient inquisitor dispatched to kill any who would misuse magic and who has extensive experience denying the existence of opponents in combat. Battler is also the kinda guy to shoot for his win condition and quickly and effectively respond to whatever his opponent throws at him regardless of how absurd his chosen tactic should be (memes, I know but it's still a conceptual attack).
Endless Nine itself has bee show over and over agai to be extremely effective against opponents on the same plane of existence even should they exist on far higher planes.
Nanashi's Observation is going to clash with Endless Nine while Battler's truths dismantle the nature of its existence
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Thats an assumption on you part, Endless Nine only worked on the Truths because it was used with his Blue truths in order to counter Red Truths of his apponent. His usage againts Bern was due to him being the GM of his board and those cats where outsiders who didn't belong there, as the one where he reached the truth was not Endless Nine but just simply him being a GM/TL so the sisters didn't havethe athority to eras him. That last example wasn't his usage but rather Angie's, who's undoubtably more powerful then the Battler we are useing.
The truths and Observation will clash I don't doubt that, but Endless Nine won't be able to do much againts it because Observation isn't limited to those on the same plane but also those higher, since the entire Observation is able to affect YHVH enven though Nanashi was still human at the time.
I can seee Endless Nine defending againts it but I don't think it'll clash, nor do I think Observation can be dismanteld from the Truths. Observation is rooted from the Axiom, which YHVH is only am infinitesimally-small fragment of it. So unless Battler can can dismantle The Axiom he's not dismantling Observation.
The truths and Observation will clash I don't doubt that, but Endless Nine won't be able to do much againts it because Observation isn't limited to those on the same plane but also those higher, since the entire Observation is able to affect YHVH enven though Nanashi was still human at the time.
I can seee Endless Nine defending againts it but I don't think it'll clash, nor do I think Observation can be dismanteld from the Truths. Observation is rooted from the Axiom, which YHVH is only am infinitesimally-small fragment of it. So unless Battler can can dismantle The Axiom he's not dismantling Observation.
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Indeed, the cats were outsiders but that doesn't change the properties of Endless Nine at all, it's very consistent in what it does throughout the story in a multitude of different circumstances. In the case of Battler's ascension to TL, that absolutely was Endless Nine and was shown to be so.
When I say on the same plane, I mean that they're on the same plane within the fight itself. The point is that even if a being has manifestations/existence on a much higher plane, Endless Nine still works against the manifestation of the being that the user is fighting on the plane they're fighting on. While Nanashi and YHVH were fighting, they were on the same plane in this context unless Nanashi was in an entirely different realm dimensions lower during the fight itself.
Battler doesn't actually have to dismantle the Axiom itself, he has other options like severing Nanashi's ties to it with truths and affecting the conceptual nature of the reality they're fighting in and functionally preventing it from being a win condition for him. Because of the nature of Battler's conceptual attacks, he's able to fire off many in quick succession attacking Nanashi through countless diff assertions and means that affect the structure of reality itself as well as denying perspectives that the user doesn't want to exist.
Battler understands the ties that beings can have to higher realms and entities very well, has Endless Nine to impede the impact of Observation on him, is accustomed to dealing with foes that reshape reality according to their will, has nigh unlimited angles of attack (with the red being absolute and undeniable to boot) as well as experience against incredibly unpredictable opponents like Beatrice, EVA-Beatrice, and Erika; he should be able to win out in the end.
When I say on the same plane, I mean that they're on the same plane within the fight itself. The point is that even if a being has manifestations/existence on a much higher plane, Endless Nine still works against the manifestation of the being that the user is fighting on the plane they're fighting on. While Nanashi and YHVH were fighting, they were on the same plane in this context unless Nanashi was in an entirely different realm dimensions lower during the fight itself.
Battler doesn't actually have to dismantle the Axiom itself, he has other options like severing Nanashi's ties to it with truths and affecting the conceptual nature of the reality they're fighting in and functionally preventing it from being a win condition for him. Because of the nature of Battler's conceptual attacks, he's able to fire off many in quick succession attacking Nanashi through countless diff assertions and means that affect the structure of reality itself as well as denying perspectives that the user doesn't want to exist.
Battler understands the ties that beings can have to higher realms and entities very well, has Endless Nine to impede the impact of Observation on him, is accustomed to dealing with foes that reshape reality according to their will, has nigh unlimited angles of attack (with the red being absolute and undeniable to boot) as well as experience against incredibly unpredictable opponents like Beatrice, EVA-Beatrice, and Erika; he should be able to win out in the end.
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Just curious how powerful is the axiom? And secondly will this result stick afound once the uminkeo revision is finished? Or will the matches just be wiped due to outdated information.
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