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Novel Kars vs BB

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Simply calling it bizarre isn't gonna cut it, if that's your rebuttal I'm gonna have to ignore. Except Kars can travel to other universes too, it's not all a byproduct if him. I don't think you're quite understanding what I'm saying, she exists all across time and space in that universe unless she gas multiversal range that wont matter, from that point BTzd eould still work in the other universe, if he wanted he could priceed to copy said powers ysing an alt moon cell if he wanted, hell he could go to a universe where BB never got her power, even assuming he can't just find an existing universe where that occurs. He could also use the arrows to grant powers to space microbes and the like and accelerate their evolution with a few seconds, the arrows are from space and Kars would gave access to at least one using D4C as hed know where they are and they were previously in his possession on top if thst.
 
It still isn't acausality. It's just fiction not making sense. I'll call it PIS if you want. Acausality is transcendence from cause and effect. Retroactively adapting from your future self is not.

And no, no he cannot. D4CU creates new universes when travelling. That is stated on his page. And if he creates and goes to a universe where BB never got her powers ... so what? That isn't the BB he is fighting, killing that BB won't give him the victory. The Moon Cell is a hyper advanced piece of technology, so he can't copy it or things in it either.

And she can still rewrite the laws of the universe and make menger sponging not happen.

And did you not read what Rep said above? Divine Spirits are literally microbes that came to earth on meteors. Potnia Theron and 10 Crowns still nope both of them

Seriously. Everything Kars can do to BB, she either counters, or straight up laughs off with PT and 10C, while she can just screw with the laws of reality to neg his powers or just conceptually erase him. How do you think he wins this?
 
Then what is it, it cant really be PIS, it happened and considering the novel hypes up him being able to adapt to anything and said adaption is a key point, especially adapting to something like BTD, which was a key point in both parts, PIS isn't gonna cut it, it happened it makes sense and it falls in line with his hype. Considering GER, whose power is literally manipulatin cause and effect which does nothing to him in conjunction with the above it's easy ti say he has acasuality, he has at least two of the 3 key points covered for it. Offing a weaker BB would still allow him to copy said powers and adapt to that, and the moon cell still applies, he can still copy stuff within it or at least adapt to it from a glance, he could also use Whitesnake to manually inject said info into himself. If he adapts or copies the powers then he can't exactly be put down either. Also im aware he said thst but he went on to say basically humanity's view and such manipulated that unless I misunderstood or the fact humanity was using them not the fact that space microbes themselves were nulled.
 
Adapting to something he personally experiences makes sense. Adapting to something his future self experiences is just fiction not making sense. It isn't acausality

GER doing nothing to him just shows him having resistance to causality manipulation, not acausality.

She achieved Potnia Theron and 10 Crowns by absorbing the data (including bodies and souls) of all the earth mother goddesses. Kars can't copy that because he didn't do that, and he doesn't have any of the the Earth Mother's Authority. It isn't something that can be copied. And even if somehow he did copy Potnia Theron, Kars is born of earth, and BB is not, so his version wont stop her, while her version will stop him, so she can still kill him easily.

And Kars cannot adapt to BB's powers. No matter what, he is born of the earth. "None can resist the earth mother's authority" - she ignores the resistances of any being born of the earth. He can adapt as much as he wants, she'll laugh it off then conceptually erase him.

She'll also absorb any copies of Kars he sends at her and gain their powers and strength on top of her own.

Kars cannot win this fight. His only was of killing her was to BTD back in time and kill her before she got her powers, but seeing as we've just found out she is present across space-time, that is no longer an option either.

Enough of this. It's bordering on a stomp in her favour at this point, seeing as the only thing he can do is hide in another universe and throw clones at her for her to absorb until he loses from BFR or incap
 
After reading most of this thread I think I'm going to have to side with Monarch and Rep here, I don't see Novel Kars being able to do anything to BB. Like Monarch said what's most likely to happen is Kars continually hiding in different universes while BB absorbs the clones becoming stronger in the process until he eventually loses likely to BFR or just from the overall hax stomp.
 
Yeah, nothing Novel Kars can do can really affect anything in this fight for the sole fact that he's from Earth. Giving it to BB if her ability is capable of rendering any and all of his tactics as useless.
 
Want to point out several things, simply saying lolfiction isn't a viable response, otherwise ya know how many things would get passed off for not making sense? It falls in line of Kars being able to adapt to anything that novel hypes up so much, ya can't simply ignore it because it doesn't make sense, the novel makes a point if anything to do with Kars doesn't matter if it makes sense, time, space, normal understanding of physics don't apply, etc, Jorge had to stop trying to make sense if what Kars did because everything he dud surpassed his understanding, even pointed out ge should stop applying laws of physics and time to Kars himself. Plus the fact that she wouldn't get anything from absorbing the clones, just biological abilities and such, they themselves don't have Stands, Kars has to grant them Stands, either with discs or the arrow or allowing them to copy his own. And I'm still dubious, Gil was able to beat her correct? How, he was born if this earth, what allowed him to overcome 10 crowns.
 
@Razer Those Kars are all originally from earth. They'd still be affected. An alien virus, not born of earth, that travelled to earth on a meteor, was affected.

@J-Man, Gil gained a higher divine authority than BB, which allowed him to overcome Potnia Theron. Kars is not and has no way to become divine, seeing as divinity is not something that he can adapt to gain, its something that is gained from authority and power and belief of Alaya. Also, he never overcame 10 Crowns, in fact she could still use it during her fight against him. Also, all her powers apart from PT (which I already explained why he couldn't copy) is the result of items like the GG and the Staff of Ruler ship, so he can't copy those either.

Also, saying he can adapt and copy anything is the most massive NLF I've ever heard.

She would also gain their strength and knowledge, and learn about Kars from absorbing them.
 
BB: 9, possibly 11 (Me, Razer, Arigamy, Der Purple, SwagPack, Raito Utopia, XBlack, Leyi Gargoyle, possibly Rep and Lu Bane)

Kars: 3 (Riiingo, J-Man, Jayslice, BiasedHater)

Grace period begun guys

Edit: Gargoyle's switched vote to BB
 
You're taking what I said out of context in regards to the copy, I never said he could, I was saying the novel hyped up he could to support his retroactive adaption. And technically speaking he could use MIH in an alt universe to create an entirely new species or destroy the earth creating a new while preventing the onset of said humanities creation allowing a Kars to exist without being bound to the authority, unless ya wanna say him accelerating time in that universe is a byproduct of humanity as he's not interfering, only preventing, everything else happens naturally just sped up due to MIH, he'll be coukd skip earth entirely and create a new planet just to completely avoid the onset if saud authority. And if he uses the J-universe and MIH it wouldn't count as a product of D4C.
 
Oh I voted Kars? Whoops I forgot to switch to BB?

So Novel Kars>Gilgamesh>BB>Kars, interesting. Then again I doubt Gil could defeat her without resisting her authority.

EDIT: Whoa Whoa Whoa creating a new planet?! How does he create a planet?! Isn't that 5B?
 
He made a small moon in the novel with the use of turning dupes into minerals, with D4C he has acess to an infinite amount of Kars and objects ge can convert into minerals as opposed to the 35 he gad to create a small moon. He also converted them into fossil fuel to fuel his space ship, saud space ship which he created out of dupes and wrecked satellites.
 
You mean he made something out of his duplicates? Those same duplicates that are also born of D4CU which is born of earth? So they would be noped by PT? As would anything born on them? You mean those duplicates?
 
No i mean the duplicates made by MIH vus the natural progresion of time just sped up, which still wouldnt effect. How is said planet being Kars effect the life on it, said life wouldn't be of earth, Kars didn't create said life either and the J-Universe us a natural universe.
 
See again. Anything that has any form of originating on earth qualifies. Like the alien microbes from an extraterrestial meteor. Kars is of earth. He can turn himself into a planet if he wants, but he is still of earth and so anything "born of him" - i.e. any life on his surface - would also qualify.
 
The life wouldnt be born of him, hed just replace the earth, he could easily just take the original microbes that life originated from and go from there acting onky as tge surface preventing the onset. And as far as im aware unless it was born of earth it wouldnt matter or the fact tge definition of said ability is that it nulls earth born creatures, the microbes goes against that and if it doesnt are you implying even extraterrestrial life is effected? If so why, could it effect say Superman as an example despute being born of a different planet?
 
Superman would likely be affected as he was sent to earth as a child and has lived almost his entire life on earth, yes.

"Born of earth" basically refers to anything that was created or conceptualised on earth or by someone of earth. Kars, and all his duplicates, and anything he can created, would be "born of earth"
 
That wouldnt render any life ge manipulates tge evolution kf tgough, the moon cell wouldnt be able to scan it, they arent of earth abd not a byproduct of his abilities, have no connections to earth outside of the only connections are they would live on Kars who would be in a hibernation of sorts, nothing is being scanned so that wouldnt matter and all hed need to do us let history play out like it normally would untill another Kars happens which would take seconds with MIH. Essentially youre stating that cobtact with an earth born, outside if the moon cells view is enough to null them even if they have no other connections.
 
I'm not sure what that first sentence says, you want to edit it so I can read it?

Contact with an earthborn? No. But life developed on a planet composed of a trillions (it would need to be that many to make a plaent) of duplicates of a being born of earth? That would definitely qualify.

This is assuming BB doesn't just counter MiH with her own gravity manip and time control
 
BB for the simple reason that Kars has no way to win and the best he could do is just run away from this fight just like the one with Reinhard thread
 
How is she gonna counter something when she doesnt exist in the J-Universe? Why would the assumption be contact means nullification, they didnt originate from earth, they arent existing in an universe created by D4C, they arent made via Kars' biological and life manip, they arent being scanned by the moon cell, etc,

Also itd only take about 75,000 to create an earth like planet.
 
D4CU does not let the user travel to different "natural" universes. It only allows them to create new universes using the current universe as the "root" and travel between those. D4CU is born of earth, as is anything universe it creates. So if Kars travels to a new universe and does it there, it will still qualify.

Also. There is no way Kars can work what BB is using to null all his attacks and how to counter it. You can spout all the stuff about conceptual understanding you want, but if he looks at her, he's going to see all of his attacks having no effect on her whatsoever, and that is it. He is not going to work out "She has the divine authority of the Earth Mother Goddesses (who don't even exist in his universe for him to know of) so I need to attack her with something not born of earth" and then go create a new universe then MIH it to create a new one without earth (which still wouldn't work seeing as he is still creating it) and then send those new world's people to attack.

Also, Gargoyle's bit about the moon cell scanning is incorrect. The moon cell scanning things is not what makes BB immune to them

Also, 75,000? That seems oddly specific and completely incorrect.
 
Yes, the J-Universe, a natural universe not created by D4CU which he can cause to die and be reborn via natural progression with MIHU by speeding up time, something that was done in the novel, i said that already. I still stand by his conceptual understanding, hed know what is causing the attacks to be nulled from a glance, he may not know the source but hed figure it out eventually, probably within a minute or two after seducing an innumerable amount if possibilities based off said ability, hed probably try BTD to cover entire timelines looking for an answer if need be, which would take barely a few minutes to get to where he need to be, he he was willing to cover 10,000,000,000,000,000 years worth if time just to find DIO who took off to a different universe at an unknown point in time. The number came from some simple math. If 35 could create a small moon I just scaled the amount needed to create an earth sized planet off said moon's size.
 
The aren't in the J-Universe though are they. Standard Battle Assumptions. They are in NY central park of our world. And sure he can cause it to die and be reborn. But if he tries to do it in the same world as BB, she'll counter it easily. And if he does it in a world created by D4CU, then he's still created it or re-created it with MIH, which means it still qualifies.

And no. No. No way in hell. Nothing like Potnia Theron even exists in JJBA. And you said yourself, there are an innumerable number of possibilities. And it could be any of them. He isn't going to work out what is causing all his attacks to do nothing to her unless she straight up starts boasting about it.

Also "seducing innumerable possibilities"? What word are you trying to use?

35 created a small moon? Considering the mass of all the people on earth couldn't make a quarter of the mass of the moon, I am calling definite PIS on that one.
 
No but Kars has access to the j-Unjverse with D4CU via it's dimension hopping ability, which is used in story by Valebtine and Jars to cross between existing universes and Jverse is natural, it wasnt created. And I'm aware nothing exists (well actually there is, just the mechanics work differently but the overlsying ya cant attack me due to a set rule exists, Kars didnt encounter it thoug) but there doesn't need to anything like it, Kars had no idea what Stands, Wounds, Bounds and beyond (3 of which dont ecist in the manga and 2 which are completely different than anything in the manga including stands) were but within a simple glance at all of them he understood the mechanics, origins, workings and usage of all of them and he deduced the truth from stuff with a numerous amount of potential possibilities, like fir example, why would he assume Jorge is a singularity thst only has one existence across all of space and time over the vast amount of other options he had to pick from? Which he deduced with no effort and simply stated it like it was nothing, he of course was correct and not even Jorge knew about his true nature, Kars' understanding is his key factor, it's why he can copy powers as he understands everything about them at a glance and copies them. Kars can manipulate his body at a celluar scale, he can stretch his body at a whim, he can cause pirahnas to turn into giant tentacles, Kars doesnt really care about mass, even in the manga he turned armadillo shells into pirahnas into huge tentacles enough to take down a german WW2 fighter plane so no it sint PIS, its an ability if his.
 
Meh, I'm done with it.

Kars can't do anything to BB that isn't ridiculously roundabout and requires him to have knowledge he can't possible have without NLF. She on the other hand can null all his powers, eat him and get all his abilities, rewrite his concept, make it a law of realty that he cannot exist, etc.

We're in the grace period anyway. 20 hours and this will be over.
 
While roundabout it isnt smething that isnt impossible and all things he did through out the story at one point or another wth the exception of one, plus he doesnt need said straight up need said info, plus theres NLF on both sides here both their own stories with no limits shown, Kars has an entire story based around his understanding of concepts and things, hed essentially gain said info through his understanding regardless of if its nigh impossible like hes done before including knowing about scenes that took place without him being there through said understanding.

Plus im aware she could hax him out, at least initially, problem is she doesnt get cross-uniersal range so once hes gone he has a month to counter her, of which it wont take that long.
 
And during that month (hell, she can put herself in indeterminate time. She would need less than a second) she would have all the time she needs to rewrite the laws of reality and concepts of the world to make it so that nothing from another timeline can exist in her world, that the moment Kars re enters he ceases to exist, to remove the concept of "being harmed or killed" or "being erased" from her being, and the concept of "reactive evolution" and "power copying" from the world, to make laws saying she cannot be harmed, to make laws saying Kars cannot use his powers within reality, etc.

The most this could ever be is inconclusive if he hides in another universe and just throws clones at her, but once she gets sick of it and writes a law saying clones can't enter the world, he won't be able to harm her at all.
 
The month was just a high end statement, itll probably take him a few minutes, considering his initial debut and the end of the story happened with 2-3 hous tops, which included D4C, multiple MIH uses, a nigh to high to care amount of uses of BTD, essentially the story+25 or so quadrillion years condensed into it.

Anyway, not sure if this should be considered but he could easily hae his dupe go out and copy the powers from a plethora of characters, it could een use its own D4C to go to unierses with Kars made by it with their own sets of powers. It wouldnt be out of character either for Kars to ability hunt, he straight up hunted down Kira (or rather a host) to use BTD to gimp DIO, this could be considered outside help but considering its in character and using D4C hed be able to create a unierse with them in it to seek out. Of course the hunt down part seems like grasping at straws to me and attempting to hand him powers he didnt gain in story despite the fact its something hed do, or at least get his dupe to do.
 
A few minutes is nothing to someone who can place herself in an unlimited/indeterminate time. And everything that Kars trying to pull will get nullified for the simple fact that Kars is born of Earth and thus by extension everything he does will get nullified by BB's authority because in the end its still something that originate from someone that's originate from Earth
 
Dont think thats how it works, he could easily just go to the J-unierse, a natural unierse with no connection to his D4C, use MIH to speed up the death of the dimension untill it starts anew, then make it so the onset of life in the new unierse has no connections to earth despite following the same story basically and then use that Kars and the Kars that that Kars gets to attack her or use D4C to paradox her without it getting nulled the second it happens as their D4C is of a different world and frozen time and space wont mean much to them as theyre uneffected by it normally, they could just use KQ for atomization at that point.

The most relation to the OG Kars would be just physical contact.

Should also point out Kars too can act within a space where life and death explicitly doesnt exist, ya cant go anywhere, time doesnt exist, it exists for all eternity and you cant do anything within it and ya get basically nothing there, basically a black oid world which is something that is useless to him by powerscaling off weaker characters.
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
He could easily just go to the J-unierse, a natural unierse with no connection to his D4C, use MIH to speed up the death of the dimension untill it starts anew, then make it so
Click to expand...
And your example has failed already. He does it with MiH and creates a new universe -> it qualifies as born of Kars who is born of earth, and can't do anything to her
 
The fact that it was done by Kars doesn't change anything. Potnia Theron would still get activated no matter what he does because by extension its still something that originate from Earth. And in case you're just gonna come over & spout the same bullshit over and over again just like a ******** person, just know that i won't be here explaining why it won't work because it has been said several times as to how it wouldn't (and not just by me) and yet you're just still being a broken record
 
Chill Fab. Don't use such language against our esteemed debating opponent.

That being said, nothing Kars can do will affect BB while she nopes all his resistances and just makes the world itself reject Kars and everything he can do
 
Chill dude, this is all in good fun, no need to get angry.

As for the MIH thing, MIH accelerates time, all it does it speed things up, hence why he can cause the unierse to die and be reborn in seconds plus, if I hadnt made it clear the J-unierse is a natural unierse not made by D4C so it didnt originate from earth plus I dont see how him making it so the new life exists elsewhere besides earth nulls them, all hes doing is essentially changing their location and then after a few billion years condensed into a second, telling the new Kars what to do.

Unless physical contact and telling something that should be uneffected by Ten Crowns is enough render it useless but correct me if im wrong but isnt the player character in CCC uneffected yet still in relations with earthborn beings?

Itd be like saying if he stopped time, it effects the whole unierse thus eerything in the unierse no longer effects her.

Anyway we can agree to dsagree I guess, going back and forth with miniscule changes wont effect either opinions.

Plus unrelated but the Nintendo E3 is early in the morning, gotta wish for that new Metroid so should probaby get some sleep.
 
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